2011 US Open

[Drummond]

Amazing how little recognition Novak gets, seems like here is no different. Novak's tennis right now is on another planet, his athleticism, return of serve, backhand, I mean seriously, this guy is an amazing tennis player.

 

[Caesar]

He's fine. Deserving number one, multiple Slam champ, etc. Nothing special as far as the history of the game goes though. Right now he would struggle to crack my top 40, although he'll probably be higher by the time his career finishes.

 

[Drummond]

Umm, where is anyone saying he's the GOAT or anything, have I missed this discussion?

Right now he's the best player in the world (by some way), just won 3 of the 4 Slams, has lost 2 matches all year, and at 24 is just entering his prime years. Given where he is and the rest of the tour, he's a good chance to win 10 Slams which would put him in good company.

Don't make light of how good this guy is, he always had the talent, but now he's stronger, fitter, more confident, and the results are flowing.

 

[Caesar]

I'll eat my hat if Djokovic gets 10 Slams.

7 or 8. No more, unless the ATP sinks to WTA-type levels of direness over the next few years.

 

[Drummond]

I'll eat my hat if Djokovic gets 10 Slams.

7 or 8. No more, unless the ATP sinks to WTA-type levels of direness over the next few years.

I remember people absolutely laughed at the idea that Nadal would get 5, and that he'd none off clay. He's got 10.

Djokovic is 24 y/o, has 4, and will be in his peak for another 2-3 years. You think it's so unlikely that he gets two for the next three years? That'd put him at 10 by the age of 27. He's the best hard court player in the world, and obviously in the top 2 or 3 on clay and grass. Find it hard to believe that according to you he's such a sure bet not to reach double figures. I'm not saying it's absolutely a lock to happen, but man, you wouldn't find it hard to believe given his 2011.

For years I was frustrated at Novak for not reaching his potential and I thought he never would. Now that he's gluten free he's fitter and stronger, and has the belief to match it and beat the top players, one after the other. That was missing before. I could be wrong but I think you underestimate how talented Djokovic is. He always had it, but now everything else has fallen into place, and his success this year is the evidence.

 

[Caesar]

You think it's so unlikely that he gets two for the next three years?

Yes.

I think people have taken a multiple slam year for granted after a decade of Federer and Nadal. I'd back Djokovic to get two next year against Grandpa and Rafa, and probably one or two more over the remainder of his career.

The only way he'll get to 10 is if no decent prospects materialise amongst the young players and he's gifted a few.

 

[Drummond]

I love it how people always go on about how a new great player will emerge, but it doesn’t just happen magically. Who are the brightest prospects on tour? Raonic, Tomic, Harrison, Dimitrov? There is certainly talent amongst that group, but a truly great player? Don’t see it. We’re seeing a trend that players are winning Slams at older ages, and that is due to the ever increasing physicality of the sport. The way the game is being played, and the way the surfaces have slowed down, there's no doubt tennis has become a lot more physical. Young players coming in and winning Slams in their teenage years isn’t going to happen too often, at least not within the foreseeable future.

So if that aforementioned group doesn’t produce a truly elite player, who else is there? The current second tier? Berdych, Tsonga, Monfils ect? Berdych and Tsonga might snag one, but the gap between Djokovic, Nadal and Federer to Murray is large enough, and the gap from Murray to the rest is huge. Barring a dramatic collapse, Djokovic will claim many more Slams over the next few years while he’s still in his prime. Hard to argue otherwise I wouldn't thought.

But when it comes down to it, I think it boils down you failing to truly appreciate how well he's played this year. 64-2, 3 Slams, 5 Masters. You don't achieve that if you're a good player, or even great player, but a special player.

 

[XFactor1979]

Someone else will come along

I do miss the days of the one slam wonder though where theres an upset win by a guy who has a fantastic run in a grand slam tournament

 

[Drummond]

Someone else will come along

I do miss the days of the one slam wonder though where theres an upset win by a guy who has a fantastic run in a grand slam tournament

Yeah, for sure, but when? Are they on tour right now? If they are I don't see it. If they aren't, then they're at least 2-3 years away from achieving anything significant.

As for your last point, I don't. Thomas Johansson?

 

[Caesar]

I love it how people always go on about how a new great player will emerge, but it doesn’t just happen magically. Who are the brightest prospects on tour? Raonic, Tomic, Harrison, Dimitrov? There is certainly talent amongst that group, but a truly great player? Don’t see it.

Who says a new great player has to emerge?

So if that aforementioned group doesn’t produce a truly elite player, who else is there? The current second tier? Berdych, Tsonga, Monfils ect? Berdych and Tsonga might snag one, but the gap between Djokovic, Nadal and Federer to Murray is large enough, and the gap from Murray to the rest is huge. Barring a dramatic collapse, Djokovic will claim many more Slams over the next few years while he’s still in his prime. Hard to argue otherwise I wouldn't thought.

The gap isn't as big as it seems by ranking points. A player drops a step or two, and others improve a little, and suddenly the former can't beat the latter. Things change overnight.

It's highly unlikely that Djokovic will sustain this level of play for very long. He's reached his peak and the physicality of his game means it won't last for long. It is highly likely that the guys below him will continue to improve. Predicting that he will still be dominating tennis 3 years from now is just ridiculous.

 

[XFactor1979]

The thing is, alas: nadal and federer are on the way out!


As to who's next? The Americans are going to bill themselves up because they like to have a superiority complex

There was talk of a guy who went to the bolliteri science lab who just started out on tour

 

[bullish23]

Yes.

I think people have taken a multiple slam year for granted after a decade of Federer and Nadal. I'd back Djokovic to get two next year against Grandpa and Rafa, and probably one or two more over the remainder of his career.

The only way he'll get to 10 is if no decent prospects materialise amongst the young players and he's gifted a few.

Do you justify Federer's grand slams in the same way? i.e His early slams were racked up when there was no real competition unless you rate highly the likes of Nalbandian, Hewitt or Safin?

 

[bullish23]

Can also recall plenty on bigfooty saying Novak will only win the one slam. This guy has to beat both Fed and Rafa for his slams. Even when he is number 1 organisers still rig the draw for a "dream" roger v rafa final.

 

[Drummond]

Who says a new great player has to emerge?

Okay then, who on tour will suddenly step up? Name them.

The gap isn't as big as it seems by ranking points. A player drops a step or two, and others improve a little, and suddenly the former can't beat the latter. Things change overnight.

It's highly unlikely that Djokovic will sustain this level of play for very long. He's reached his peak and the physicality of his game means it won't last for long. It is highly likely that the guys below him will continue to improve. Predicting that he will still be dominating tennis 3 years from now is just ridiculous.

Nah mate, what’s ridiculous is you coming up with all these claims without anything to back it up. Things change overnight? What changes? Who changes? So Novak will rock up at the AO having suddenly lost all his talent, strength, belief? And guys like Ferrer, Monfils ect are suddenly world beaters? Funnily enough, look at the rankings, look at the ages of the top players. Novak is the youngest. So what's to say he can't improve, they might improve too, but enough to get to Novak's level? Doubtful. Things change, sure, but something tells me you’re in denial about how good a player Novak is. Time to get over whatever it is you have against him and realise this guy is a freakishly good tennis player.

As for your last sentence, c’mon mate. I said he's entering his prime, your disputing that? Yes he plays a physical brand and it means he might not have the lengthiest of careers in history, but you’re making it sound like he’s going to suffer burn out within the next year that he can’t recover from. Yeah, what a ridiculous claim by me to suggest that his next 2-3 years will be his prime! Shocker!

 

[Drummond]

Why are you backtracking anyway? You said that he’s only getting to 10 if no decent prospects materialise amongst the young players. Now you’re saying that a new great player doesn’t have to emerge?? Which one do you want Caesar? As I said, name the so called players, all of which bar Del Potro are older than Djokovic, are so likely to suddenly step up and knock him off?

 

[Flameboy]

I think you're a fool if you think anyone other than Djokovic, Nadal and Federer (probably Murray too, although he really has to sort out the way he handles big matches) will win Grand Slams over at least the next 12 months. All those guys are still absolutely reaming it, and it takes an absolute freak performance for someone to knock them off - see Tsonga vs Federer, Wimbledon.

Unless injury strikes one of them down, I honestly can't see anyone catching them for at least the next 12 months, and probably next 24. Federer is showing no signs of slowing down, Nadal is as strong as ever and Djokovic just goes without saying. Murray is consistently getting to SF's too.

So those 4 will be the cream of tennis for a while yet.

 

[Caesar]

Okay then, who on tour will suddenly step up? Name them.

Unlike you, I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I merely go from history that shows players do tend to develop very rapidly from competitive to dominant. And drop off the same way. Particularly when they play a physical style of tennis.

Nah mate, what’s ridiculous is you coming up with all these claims without anything to back it up. Things change overnight? What changes? Who changes? So Novak will rock up at the AO having suddenly lost all his talent, strength, belief? And guys like Ferrer, Monfils ect are suddenly world beaters? Funnily enough, look at the rankings, look at the ages of the top players. Novak is the youngest. So what's to say he can't improve, they might improve too, but enough to get to Novak's level? Doubtful. Things change, sure, but something tells me you’re in denial about how good a player Novak is. Time to get over whatever it is you have against him and realise this guy is a freakishly good tennis player.

He's a good tennis player who's had a great 9 months, at a time when his two main rivals are extremely vulnerable. He's not a tennis player who is going to win multiple slams a year for several years. The bandwagoning on this forum is ridiculous.

If he somehow manages to accumulate 10 Slams it will be a damning indictment of the quality of the ATP Tour over the next few years.

 

[Drummond]

Unlike you, I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I merely go from history that shows players do tend to develop very rapidly from competitive to dominant. And drop off the same way. Particularly when they play a physical style of tennis.


He's a good tennis player who's had a great 9 months, at a time when his two main rivals are extremely vulnerable. He's not a tennis player who is going to win multiple slams a year for several years. The bandwagoning on this forum is ridiculous.

If he somehow manages to accumulate 10 Slams it will be a damning indictment of the quality of the ATP Tour over the next few years.

Nothing useful here, more fluff.

The bit in bold sums it up nicely I think, no need to even respond. Good tennis players don't have the year Novak's had.

 

[Caesar]

Meh. The next few years will vindicate me.

Djokovic - the new Courier, only less talented and peaking in a weaker era.

 

[Drummond]

As I said, I'm done here. You shot yourself in the foot.

 

[Caesar]

Drummond - king of the fanbois.

 

[Drummond]

Wait, what?! You're claiming I've bandwagonned Djokovic? I'm a 'fanboi' because my favourite player has had one of the greatest years ever and I'm enjoing it?

Seriously? Maturity shining through Ceaser.

 

[Dagger5]

Who do you support Caesar? Nadal or Fed?

Many fans of the above two still can't accept the fact that Novak has surpassed them and they can keep telling themselves that Novak will decline. Novak has tasted success and he doesn't look like letting go anytime soon.

Novak's game is not as demanding as Nadal's is because Novak varies his game against who he plays. Against Nadal, Murray and Fed he must defend and attack like crazy which punishes his body, but against the likes of Tsonga and Berdych, he just pushes them around. He also has not suffered a major injury in his career at this point in time. Matching and beating Agassi's 8 slams would be an acheivable objective at this point in time.

As for the state of the game if Novak did win more then 8, you would then have to criticise Fed's slam count because he won most of his in an era against the inconsistant Safin, one dimensional Roddick, counterpunching Hewitt and a young Nadal.

 

[Caesar]

It's a foreign concept on this forum, but I don't actually support individual players. All I want is as many competitive, positively-played matches as possible.

Djokovic is a good player who's currently playing the tennis of his life, but the idea that he might be the best we have to look forward to watching for the next 3 years is a bit concerning.

 

[Dagger5]

Fed still has another 2 years at the top IMO and Nadal is only a year older than Novak. Nadal made it to many finals this year and the only person that could stop him was Djokovic so he will still be around as long as his knees hold up. Unfortunately Andy Murray has no forehand or mental fortitude so I will count him out. Its not as bad as you are making out though.