Analysis 2012, 2013 & 2014 draft ranking

[Thetrader15]

Crouch and Heeney above Cripps? Really? The guy would be in the top 3 of the brownlow right now

Crouch was AA last year in the same position. Case closed

I've seen Heeney win games before fornhis team. Has Cripps been in a winning team at all?

You've got to watch some non-vic games

 

[Thetrader15]

Crouch and Heeney above Cripps? Really? The guy would be in the top 3 of the brownlow right now

With how many votes? You don't get 3 when your team is smashed

 

[rfc4eva]

I know i'm biased but I'm very happy with Vlaustin. Underrated and will probably be our next captain.Our record isnt that good without him in the team.

 

[HairyO]

Grundy clear #1.

I cant think of another ruck who was as good as young as he was.

Noone from St Kilda in the top 10.

Other than that - meh.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Let's wait and see how he handles Gawn.

 

[sharp450]

It's very subjective, do you really rate rucks (Grundy), Mids, (Kelly) or Key Forwards, (Brown). The subjective nature of this thread aside, no excuses for having Daniher ahead of Ben Brown who is clearly right now the more proven and better player.

That said, the big guys are almost always worth more as they say. - my subjective opinion, so I'll give this a go.

1.) Ben Brown - Best Key Forward
2.) Brody Grundy - Best ruck in the comp.
3.) Harris Andrews - Best Key Defender
4.) Josh Kelly - Best Midfielder
5.) Isaac Heeney
6.) Patrick Cripps
7.) Ollie Wines
8.) Marcus Bontempelli
9.) Matt Crouch
10.) Jack Macrae
11.) Joe Daniher
12.) Darcy Moore
13.) Jordon Degoey
14.) Zac Merret
15.) Christian Petracca
16.) Jake Lever
17.) Lachie Whitfield
18.) Jack Viney
19.) Ozario Fantasia
20.) Jack Billings.

It's also subjective as to how one rates potential over output or vice versa. Based on potential I'm actually being modest in regards to JDG and Moore, Moore obviously being a Key Forward and then JDG's upside is massive and I think most agree on that.

From Essendon Zac Merret started like a bullet, but he is a small bodied midfielder and an accumalator, doesn't have the potential to be bone fida elite like many of the others from these drafts.

Flame away.

lmao

 

[citizen-erased]

OP did a top 20, so i'll attempt the same with some reasoning.

1-Macrae. The fly under the radar elite mid of the comp. Kid runs hard, uses the ball well and does not stop all game. Pendlebury-like, in that he just goes about it with no fuss, but rarely plays a bad game
2-Daniher. In a rut at the moment, but his best and his potential to get better has him rated as one of the best players in the comp for mine. Current form is likely based on a hip niggle. Not enough to bench him, but it's restricting him.
3-Josh Kelly. I see Judd-like qualities in him. Line breaking pace and strength, a goal scoring threat and all round midfield package.
4-Bont. The modern day Hird. Versatile, sublime skills and a game changer.
5-Z.Merrett. Like Macrae, a consistent performer at a strong level. No one attribute stands out. he just reads the game well and disposes of the ball beautifully.
6-M.Crouch. The third brother to outshine his elder in this list. One of the more damaging receivers in the game, with his ability to read the inside ball and use it in traffic.
7-Cripps. Climbing with a bullet here, and a potential number 1 if he can keep this form and fitness up. Inside beast who can do some good work outside and up forward.
8-B.Brown. Probably the best out and out key forward in the game at the moment. Its a simple game he plays, lead-mark-goal, but as a FF its all you want.
9-Heeney. Hard as a nail and has skills to boot. If it clicks for a full season, can see this kid being up there with Kelly as an elite game breaker.
10-Grundy. Establishing himself as one of the premier rucks in the comp, and as he matures will likely get better.
11-Wines. Very solid and consistent and hit the level of AFL very early.
12-Fantasia. Was in AA form and on his way to it last year before injury. Good off a wing but a better FP player. Very good goal sense and pace to burn.
13-Lever. Have liked Lever from early days. Reads it so well and his ability to cut off the ball in defence is elite.
14-Stringer. Had an electric 2015 and 2016, and despite a poor 2017 and slow start this year, remains one of the more talented players in the league. I can't put him higher than this at the moment, but i could easily have him top 5 at his best.
15-Andrews. Building as one of the better one on one defenders and has a good rebound/offensive game to him too
16-Billings. Slow start, then hit some high levels before tapering off. Mainly here based on his potential to be elite.
17-Siciliy. Like Lever, has found his niche as an intercept/rebound CHB with a great kick.
18-Whitfield. Feel he gets judged harshly with the number 1 pick tag. Very smooth and skilled player and has found his niche off HBF.
19-Acres. Building, and i put him in with the potential of being a close to elite big body mid.
20-Lloyd. Another one here for reliability and good skills. Hard to knock the consistency he has put out in a role that isn't the sexiest in AFL.

 

[Wild Bill]

OP did a top 20, so i'll attempt the same with some reasoning.

1-Macrae. The fly under the radar elite mid of the comp. Kid runs hard, uses the ball well and does not stop all game. Pendlebury-like, in that he just goes about it with no fuss, but rarely plays a bad game
2-Daniher. In a rut at the moment, but his best and his potential to get better has him rated as one of the best players in the comp for mine. Current form is likely based on a hip niggle. Not enough to bench him, but it's restricting him.
3-Josh Kelly. I see Judd-like qualities in him. Line breaking pace and strength, a goal scoring threat and all round midfield package.
4-Bont. The modern day Hird. Versatile, sublime skills and a game changer.
5-Z.Merrett. Like Macrae, a consistent performer at a strong level. No one attribute stands out. he just reads the game well and disposes of the ball beautifully.
6-M.Crouch. The third brother to outshine his elder in this list. One of the more damaging receivers in the game, with his ability to read the inside ball and use it in traffic.
7-Cripps. Climbing with a bullet here, and a potential number 1 if he can keep this form and fitness up. Inside beast who can do some good work outside and up forward.
8-B.Brown. Probably the best out and out key forward in the game at the moment. Its a simple game he plays, lead-mark-goal, but as a FF its all you want.
9-Heeney. Hard as a nail and has skills to boot. If it clicks for a full season, can see this kid being up there with Kelly as an elite game breaker.
10-Grundy. Establishing himself as one of the premier rucks in the comp, and as he matures will likely get better.
11-Wines. Very solid and consistent and hit the level of AFL very early.
12-Fantasia. Was in AA form and on his way to it last year before injury. Good off a wing but a better FP player. Very good goal sense and pace to burn.
13-Lever. Have liked Lever from early days. Reads it so well and his ability to cut off the ball in defence is elite.
14-Stringer. Had an electric 2015 and 2016, and despite a poor 2017 and slow start this year, remains one of the more talented players in the league. I can't put him higher than this at the moment, but i could easily have him top 5 at his best.
15-Andrews. Building as one of the better one on one defenders and has a good rebound/offensive game to him too
16-Billings. Slow start, then hit some high levels before tapering off. Mainly here based on his potential to be elite.
17-Siciliy. Like Lever, has found his niche as an intercept/rebound CHB with a great kick.
18-Whitfield. Feel he gets judged harshly with the number 1 pick tag. Very smooth and skilled player and has found his niche off HBF.
19-Acres. Building, and i put him in with the potential of being a close to elite big body mid.
20-Lloyd. Another one here for reliability and good skills. Hard to knock the consistency he has put out in a role that isn't the sexiest in AFL.

Ben Brown has gone past Daniher - you're only picking him in the hope he can turn it around.

Brown is a lock at the minute and you can roll the dice on Daniher not turning into Adrian McAdam. I wouldn't and taking Brown before him.

Joe Daniher's goal kicking is always going to swing between ok and woeful. The whole team feels his woeful kicking - Joe finding it amusing wouldn't help.

 

[Checkered]

Yeah not hard to tell that was an Essendon list

 

[Checkered]

I think Lever is getting too good a run in this thread. He had one good season. Not playing well this season and i dont remember him doing much in 2016 - correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as defenders go, id have Andrews way ahead of him on the basis that he's been good since he started. Taking the best forward in his like his second season in what is far and away the worst team to want to defend in and holding his own. Can only imagine how good he'd be with better suport around him, more pressure on the entriy kicks and a bit of freedom to lay off his man.

 

[Simon_Says]

Cripps number 1

 

[WilloTree]

1.) Ben Brown - Best Key Forward
2.) Brody Grundy - Best ruck in the comp.
3.) Harris Andrews - Best Key Defender
4.) Josh Kelly - Best Midfielder
5.) Isaac Heeney
6.) Patrick Cripps
7.) Ollie Wines
8.) Marcus Bontempelli
9.) Matt Crouch
10.) Jack Macrae
11.) Joe Daniher
12.) Darcy Moore
13.) Jordon Degoey
14.) Zac Merret
15.) Christian Petracca
16.) Jake Lever
17.) Lachie Whitfield
18.) Jack Viney
19.) Ozario Fantasia
20.) Jack Billings.

Top 10.
Brown
Kelly
Bont
Crouch
Cripps
Wines
Merret
Viney
Heeney
Grundy
Whitfield

 

[citizen-erased]

Ben Brown has gone past Daniher - you're only picking him in the hope he can turn it around.

Brown is a lock at the minute and you can roll the dice on Daniher not turning into Adrian McAdam. I wouldn't and taking Brown before him.

Joe Daniher's goal kicking is always going to swing between ok and woeful. The whole team feels his woeful kicking - Joe finding it amusing wouldn't help.

turn it around? its been a handful of games early in the season and the whole team is rife with it.
He was AA in 2017.

if i was looking for a FF that was a FF and that is all, then i'd go Brown over anyone else in the comp....maybe Tom Lynch if i ever get to see him serviced by a decent team.

Daniher is a CHF who roams up the ground.
They're not comparable players and from a list perspective Daniher has more strings to his bow.

 

[citizen-erased]

It's very subjective, do you really rate rucks (Grundy), Mids, (Kelly) or Key Forwards, (Brown). The subjective nature of this thread aside, no excuses for having Daniher ahead of Ben Brown who is clearly right now the more proven and better player.

That said, the big guys are almost always worth more as they say. - my subjective opinion, so I'll give this a go.

1.) Ben Brown - Best Key Forward
2.) Brody Grundy - Best ruck in the comp.
3.) Harris Andrews - Best Key Defender
4.) Josh Kelly - Best Midfielder
5.) Isaac Heeney
6.) Patrick Cripps
7.) Ollie Wines
8.) Marcus Bontempelli
9.) Matt Crouch
10.) Jack Macrae
11.) Joe Daniher
12.) Darcy Moore
13.) Jordon Degoey
14.) Zac Merret
15.) Christian Petracca
16.) Jake Lever
17.) Lachie Whitfield
18.) Jack Viney
19.) Ozario Fantasia
20.) Jack Billings.

It's also subjective as to how one rates potential over output or vice versa. Based on potential I'm actually being modest in regards to JDG and Moore, Moore obviously being a Key Forward and then JDG's upside is massive and I think most agree on that.

From Essendon Zac Merret started like a bullet, but he is a small bodied midfielder and an accumalator, doesn't have the potential to be bone fida elite like many of the others from these drafts.

Flame away.

massive disservice to Macrae. He has shown and done far more than Heeney.
Wines wouldn't be ahead of Bont, and Merrett behind De Goey, Heeney, Cripps and Wines is unfair to a player who has an AA under his belt ahead of all them just last year. He's now the number 1 player tagged at essendon and has been for a while.
I think the tag accumulator has been thrown at him based on supercoach popularity. He's a very good user of the ball and a smart decision maker under pressure. There's a reason we try to get the ball to him as much as possible behind play. He rarely botches his kicks.

 

[Snake Charmer]

Crouch was AA last year in the same position. Case closed

I've seen Heeney win games before fornhis team. Has Cripps been in a winning team at all?

You've got to watch some non-vic games

One plays for Sydney the other for Carlton. Swap them over and I bet Cripps would be the a near Brownlow favourite at Sydney while Heeney would be absolutely busting his ass (probably playing really wel) in a shit Carlton midfield with no support, probably being 0-7.

We are comparing individual players, not there team successes. Stupid way to look at it

 

[Wild Bill]

turn it around? its been a handful of games early in the season and the whole team is rife with it.
He was AA in 2017.

if i was looking for a FF that was a FF and that is all, then i'd go Brown over anyone else in the comp....maybe Tom Lynch if i ever get to see him serviced by a decent team.

Daniher is a CHF who roams up the ground.
They're not comparable players and from a list perspective Daniher has more strings to his bow.

What are those strings? His goal kicking is so bad you want him up the ground and not kicking for goal.

Daniher has fallen away so badly he shouldn't be playing seniors.

Also - you can compare them - in a draft ranking thread like the one your in.

 

[PostPaolo]

1. Kelly
2. Bontempelli
3. Grundy
4. Cripps
5. Brown
6. Daniher
7. Crouch
8. Heeney
9. Petracca
10. Wines
11. Macrae
12. Merrett
13. Lever
14. Whitfield
15. Billings
16. De Goey
17. Andrews
18. Viney

Not a knock on Ben Brown who you could arguably have at #1, but as like most saw a glimpse of him at VFL/Foxtel Cup that year and wish he was at our club, if I were re-drafting these players I'd give some consideration that he is 26 at the end of the year whilst some of those guys from the 2014 draft are still 21. Tough gig ranking these, some very talented players

2012:
Whitfield (1)
Macrae (6)
Wines (7)
Daniher (10)
Grundy (18)
Viney (26 F/S)

2013:
Kelly (2)
Billings (3)
Bontempelli (4)
Cripps (13)
Crouch (23)
Merrett (26)
Brown (47)

2014:
Petracca (2)
De Goey (5)
Lever (14)
Heeney (18 Academy)
Andrews (61 Academy)

 

[Yoda_]

Might as well include ALL the guys who were drafted across those three drafts;

1. Dane Rampe - Pick #37, 2012 rookie draft

Mr Reliable, Mr Dependable. He is simply the best player from this draft period. May have been that touch older (21 iirc) comparable to his peers but he has gone from strength to strength and would now be close to the best player in this period.

2. Ben Brown - Pick #47, 2013 national draft
When comparing value for money, Brown is the next best. A genuine match winner who has been close to 2 goals a game since his debut.

3. Josh Kelly - Pick #2, 2013 national draft
Out and out star who is putting it all together finally. First time all australian in 2017 and a player who could be a top 5 in the comp sort of guy.

4. Joe Daniher - #10, 2012 afl draft (father/son)
Controversial but he is an All Australian and someone who despite this year has had to carry the burden of a young, immature team on his own young shoulders. A match winner and someone who despite all his goal kicking woes has been much better than many give him credit for.

5. Ollie Wines - #7, 2012 national draft
Another controversial decision but the kid has virtually been doing what he does from day dot.

6. Marcus Bontempelli - pick #4, 2013 national draft
Genuine game changer and someone who has put it all together since early days. The kid can play.

7. Brodie Grundy - pick #18, 2012 national draft
One of the toughest positions to play as a youngster with the Pies now reaping the rewards of him entering into his prime. Expect him to be AA at some stage having only built on his strong start to his career.

8. P.Cripps - Pick #13, 2013 national draft
Simply irresistable at the moment and will one day captain the Carlton football club. Above guys like Crouch, Heeney as a player who impacts a game overall more than those guys.

9. M.Crouch - pick #23, 2013 national draft
Brilliant accumulator who has gone from strength to strength. All Australian for the first time and someone who will be recognised as a top line player in due course.

10. Zac Merret - pick #26, 2012 national draft
All Australian squad player and club champion. Brilliant at his best, his first handful of games in 2018 should not be judged on his overall impact from that draft.

11. Jack Macrae
12. Issac Heeney
13. Jake Stringer
14. Orazio Fantasia
15. Harris Andrews
16. Jake Lever
17. Lachlan Whitfield
18. Jake Lloyd
19. Jack Billings
20. Blake Acres

 

[eth-dog]

Ordinary list. Grundy 3 good games and is ranked 3rd? Andrews, have you seen him play, Lions bigfooty folk might rave on about him but he's useless. Petracca ahead of Wines, Orazia not in top 50 let alone 20. Jesus I could go on.

I genuinely need to ask, how many games have you seen Raz in? He's fantastic.

 

[Jesslc]

Might as well include ALL the guys who were drafted across those three drafts;

1. Dane Rampe - Pick #37, 2012 rookie draft

Mr Reliable, Mr Dependable. He is simply the best player from this draft period. May have been that touch older (21 iirc) comparable to his peers but he has gone from strength to strength and would now be close to the best player in this period.

2. Ben Brown - Pick #47, 2013 national draft
When comparing value for money, Brown is the next best. A genuine match winner who has been close to 2 goals a game since his debut.

3. Josh Kelly - Pick #2, 2013 national draft
Out and out star who is putting it all together finally. First time all australian in 2017 and a player who could be a top 5 in the comp sort of guy.

4. Joe Daniher - #10, 2012 afl draft (father/son)
Controversial but he is an All Australian and someone who despite this year has had to carry the burden of a young, immature team on his own young shoulders. A match winner and someone who despite all his goal kicking woes has been much better than many give him credit for.

5. Ollie Wines - #7, 2012 national draft
Another controversial decision but the kid has virtually been doing what he does from day dot.

6. Marcus Bontempelli - pick #4, 2013 national draft
Genuine game changer and someone who has put it all together since early days. The kid can play.

7. Brodie Grundy - pick #18, 2012 national draft
One of the toughest positions to play as a youngster with the Pies now reaping the rewards of him entering into his prime. Expect him to be AA at some stage having only built on his strong start to his career.

8. P.Cripps - Pick #13, 2013 national draft
Simply irresistable at the moment and will one day captain the Carlton football club. Above guys like Crouch, Heeney as a player who impacts a game overall more than those guys.

9. M.Crouch - pick #23, 2013 national draft
Brilliant accumulator who has gone from strength to strength. All Australian for the first time and someone who will be recognised as a top line player in due course.

10. Zac Merret - pick #26, 2012 national draft
All Australian squad player and club champion. Brilliant at his best, his first handful of games in 2018 should not be judged on his overall impact from that draft.

11. Jack Macrae
12. Issac Heeney
13. Jake Stringer
14. Orazio Fantasia
15. Harris Andrews
16. Jake Lever
17. Lachlan Whitfield
18. Jake Lloyd
19. Jack Billings
20. Blake Acres

Im sorry. While Dane Rampe is quite easily the best defender in this category, he is a third defender (One of the, if not the, easiest position to replace) and was picked up at 23 years of age. He is not nearly as valuable as alot of those other players and has 5 less years of football in him on average. That selection makes little sense to me using basic logic.

Just for example, You've chosen an almost 28 year old Dane Rampe over a 23 year old Patrick Cripps.

We are certainly talking about this from the perspective of drafting so age and position are definitely relevant.

 

[DapperDon]

What are those strings? His goal kicking is so bad you want him up the ground and not kicking for goal.

Daniher has fallen away so badly he shouldn't be playing seniors.

Also - you can compare them - in a draft ranking thread like the one your in.

6 games this year is the only time Brown has been ahead of Joey.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[Wild Bill]

6 games this year is the only time Brown has been ahead of Joey.

Let's not pretend otherwise.

There was very little between then last year. 2 players going in the completely different direction. One has had significant improvement and one has had a significant fall off the cliff.

The only reason you could take Daniher before Brown is the hope that he turns his form around. The gap in 2018 is massive.

 

[Yoda_]

Im sorry. While Dane Rampe is quite easily the best defender in this category, he is a third defender (One of the, if not the, easiest position to replace) and was picked up at 23 years of age. He is not nearly as valuable as alot of those other players and has 5 less years of football in him on average. That selection makes little sense to me using basic logic.

Just for example, You've chosen an almost 28 year old Dane Rampe over a 23 year old Patrick Cripps.

We are certainly talking about this from the perspective of drafting so age and position are definitely relevant.

Typical BigFooty at it's best.

Better to be young than good. Not sure, but feel Rampe has been playing KPD this season.


Don't get me wrong, fully expect a guy like Cripps to be better than Rampe. Feel Rampe (despite his age) has had a much bigger impact than anyone else in this period

 

[Yoda_]

There was very little between then last year. 2 players going in the completely different direction. One has had significant improvement and one has had a significant fall off the cliff.

The only reason you could take Daniher before Brown is the hope that he turns his form around. The gap in 2018 is massive.

Trolling at it's finest. Well done!

 

[DapperDon]

There was very little between then last year. 2 players going in the completely different direction. One has had significant improvement and one has had a significant fall off the cliff.

The only reason you could take Daniher before Brown is the hope that he turns his form around. The gap in 2018 is massive.

Again. 6 games does not a career make. Joey in shocking form no doubt and I'm not saying Brown isn't a friggen gun, he obviously is. It's still half a career for them both, plenty of time left before claiming one the victor.