Oppo Camp 2012 AFL Finals Discussion - Grand Final Hawks v Swans

[Bluelegs]

We passed on Jack Darling why exactly?

We got the elite footskills of Lucas cook. Seriously we've drafted poorly, we know it and so does everyone else. No point in moping about it these days. At least Barry is gone and we can find some good players with our early picks. All our players of the past five years with heart came late in the draft.

 

[PureFooty]

We passed on Jack Darling why exactly?

Was waiting for this post lol. In our defence so did 16 other teams But look on the brightside of this game, north are still the 'nothing' team of the AFL

 

[Dez!]

We got the elite footskills of Lucas cook. Seriously we've drafted poorly, we know it and so does everyone else. No point in moping about it these days. At least Barry is gone and we can find some good players with our early picks. All our players of the past five years with heart came late in the draft.

Not moping just geniuinely curious as to what reason we had for passing on him?

Was waiting for this post lol. In our defence so did 16 other teams But look on the brightside of this game, north are still the 'nothing' team of the AFL

I really don't care about why other teams passed on him, just why we did seeing as he's everything that we need.

 

[Marlowe]

I would wager on "off-field behavior" as the reason we didn't draft Darling. I remember someone calling him the "Brendan Fevola" of the 2010 draft.
Perhaps we thought Cook was the "safer" choice.

And who's to say we could have developed Darling any better than West Coast?

 

[Captain Jack]

Today's game is a shining example of why we would never have got anywhere with Bailey's game style (to say nothing of the lack of fitness etc). North's run-and-gun game plan looked really slick during the season, but they don't (yet) have the hard edge required to make it when the heat gets turned up in September. The Eagles didn't give them an inch in the first half, and they wilted.
Neeld's style may look boring, low-scoring and ineffective at the moment, but once we get the defensive side of things down we'll begin to look much better on the offensive side.

 

[Dez!]

I would wager on "off-field behavior" as the reason we didn't draft Darling. I remember someone calling him the "Brendan Fevola" of the 2010 draft.
Perhaps we thought Cook was the "safer" choice.

And who's to say we could have developed Darling any better than West Coast?

The safer choice would have been the more talented player, Jack Darling.

This club isn't going to get anywhere by "playing it safe" all the time, fortune favours the brave and at some time we have to get bold and brave.

The recruitment of Mitch Clark last year is a prime example, we were bold and took what we wanted and look how it turned out (injury aside).

The same needs to apply to the draft table, don't piss away a chance at a supremely talented kid because of "off-field behaviour". Remember they are kids when they are drafted and most of them are stupid and still need to mature, the club should be backing itself to fix that and help these kids develop on and off the field.

 

[Bluelegs]

The same needs to apply to the draft table, don't piss away a chance at a supremely talented kid because of "off-field behaviour". Remember they are kids when they are drafted and most of them are stupid and still need to mature, the club should be backing itself to fix that and help these kids develop on and off the field.

Exactly. Geelong tamed Stevie J, Melbourne should be able to keep a tight leash on an eighteen year old.

 

[PureFooty]

Today's game is a shining example of why we would never have got anywhere with Bailey's game style (to say nothing of the lack of fitness etc). North's run-and-gun game plan looked really slick during the season, but they don't (yet) have the hard edge required to make it when the heat gets turned up in September. The Eagles didn't give them an inch in the first half, and they wilted.
Neeld's style may look boring, low-scoring and ineffective at the moment, but once we get the defensive side of things down we'll begin to look much better on the offensive side.

Is that really the case though? I mean Scott and the roos will go away over the summer and focus predominatly on the defensive aspects of their game, trying to develop that 'hard edge'. I think that was the next step in Dean Bailey's plan but it was never going to get a chance with some of the dismal performances we put in.

I feel Bailey's two main problems were not a balanced focus on defence and attack, and not having an elite fitness regime coming into the season along with poor player mentality.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

A few ordinary calls in the Geelong v Freo game, but what a performance from the Dockers! Totally smashed Geelong for most of the first half, then held them out for the 2nd half to win. If Pav pulls up okay they'd be a great chance to make it to the prelim against the Hawks.

And I reckon they'd have a damn good chance in that matchup too.

Don't forget they beat the Hawks in their last finals appearance two years ago, and I'd have to reckon they're a stronger outfit now than they were then.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Today's game is a shining example of why we would never have got anywhere with Bailey's game style (to say nothing of the lack of fitness etc).

Neeld's style may look boring, low-scoring and ineffective at the moment, but once we get the defensive side of things down we'll begin to look much better on the offensive side.

Exactly right mate. I think what we saw today is a close approximation of where we'd have ended up under Bailey.

Aside from those strength and conditioning issues which were an underlying cause of so much trouble before the end of 2011, to put it simply, this is about two-way football.

Or total football, as it were.

First we get the bedrock elements firmly in place, then the rest.

As Neeldy always says, the hallmark of any successful team is that they do the basics very well.

 

[Bluelegs]

Is that really the case though? I mean Scott and the roos will go away over the summer and focus predominatly on the defensive aspects of their game, trying to develop that 'hard edge'. I think that was the next step in Dean Bailey's plan but it was never going to get a chance with some of the dismal performances we put in.

I feel Bailey's two main problems were not a balanced focus on defence and attack, and not having an elite fitness regime coming into the season along with poor player mentality.

Bailey brought those problems upon himself by being a soft-utensil with no authority over a bunch of kids.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

That's what I was typing

Looking back, it really seems like he was incapable of exerting meaningful authority over the playing group.

And besides, it's pretty clear working on the attack first is the wrong way to go about it. Or trying to build up both ways at once, for that matter.

We were able to do a fair amount of skilful stuff during that period, but often messed up the fundamentals. A direct result of the approach Bailey took.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Hawthorn vs Sydney grand final. Mark it in.

If I was a betting man, I'd take a punt on it ending up as Freo v Sydney.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Seriously we've drafted poorly, we know it and so does everyone else. No point in moping about it these days.

We stuffed up the development of the vast majority of those we've drafted. A clear and constant pattern going right back to the start of the millennium, and it was evident right up until the end of last year.

Who knows, maybe Cook might've ended up a worthwhile player if he'd been taken by another club a couple of years ago.

 

[Bluelegs]

If I was a betting man, I'd take a punt on it ending up as Freo v Sydney.

Doubtful. While yes Freo beat Hawthorn in a final two years ago, you're looking at two very different teams right now. Freo are still in a bit of a fledgling state imo might take them an extra year or two to really challenge a flag. I mean earlier in the season when they played Hawthorn they were absolutely dismantled. While yes Freo have improved since then, I think hawthorn are too clean, and too professional to drop a preliminary final against any team let alone freo. That's the thing that has stood out this year about both Sydney and Hawthorn to me. When their opposition starts gaining momentum these clubs rarely bat an eyelash, they just keep calm and continue playing the game they want to play, this is something that takes a while for teams to learn and while Freo have adapted quickly to Ross Lyon when they come under the pressure of a team like Hawthorn I reckon their inexperience will make them wobble in the same way that we saw it happen to Adelaide on Saturday.

Actually a few weeks back my immediate reaction after watching the Sydney vs Hawthorn game was that I'd just seen a grand final preview.

 

[Bluelegs]

We stuffed up the development of the vast majority of those we've drafted. A clear and constant pattern going right back to the start of the millennium, and it was evident right up until the end of last year.

Who knows, maybe Cook might've ended up a worthwhile player if he'd been taken by another club a couple of years ago.

A bit of both, I mean the development is one thing but the way Darling has come on after what, two years, is absolutely phenomenal. Put Cook in any great side and I doubt he would have developed that quickly.

 

[Captain Jack]

Fremantle could easily be top 2 next year, they have an amazing balance of Lyon's defensive hardness and the natural talent and flair to attack and kick big scores. Look out... Especially if they add Goddard to that team too.

 

[Viney]

Today's game is a shining example of why we would never have got anywhere with Bailey's game style (to say nothing of the lack of fitness etc). North's run-and-gun game plan looked really slick during the season, but they don't (yet) have the hard edge required to make it when the heat gets turned up in September. The Eagles didn't give them an inch in the first half, and they wilted.
Neeld's style may look boring, low-scoring and ineffective at the moment, but once we get the defensive side of things down we'll begin to look much better on the offensive side.

Spot......f'ing......on

And it's what I've been saying since Bailey got the chop - we keep Bailey or Neeld keeps status quo, we win 8 - 12 games MAYBE sneak into the finals only to be bundled out.

Neeld is doing what needs doing to change things top to bottom so we are finals contenders (serious finals contenders)

Good week of footy

Hawks / Pies a sensational game. Brutal. They (Hawks in particular) are the benchmark

Adelaide found wanting after a softish draw? Or Sydney underrated?

Freo - wow - what a great win. Lyon knows how to coach finals. Partly the reason I'm glad we didn't get him or go after him. Lyon needs a ready made team, to be able to tweak to his style (I reckon he saw the Saints were passed their window and he doesn't have the ability to rebuild - he's a refresher). We need a total rebuild

North, was pretty obvious they were going to get spanked. Good on them for making the finals (yes, I know on the back of a soft draw) but hey, I'd rather be playing finals than finishing 16th

 

[Captain Jack]

Finals experience was also pretty telling in a couple of games. North had 13 playing their first final, and looked completely shell shocked against the more experienced eagles. Sydney just know how to perform in September, their culture is amazing... Adelaide probably in a similar position to North, but not as extreme.
The Geelong v Freo game was interesting - maybe a case of Ross Lyon's finals experience shining through. The man is a gun.

 

[Viney]

Finals experience was also pretty telling in a couple of games. North had 13 playing their first final, and looked completely shell shocked against the more experienced eagles. Sydney just know how to perform in September, their culture is amazing... Adelaide probably in a similar position to North, but not as extreme.
The Geelong v Freo game was interesting - maybe a case of Ross Lyon's finals experience shining through. The man is a gun.

Lyon is, but I'm still of the belief that Lyon needs a mature list that merely requires refreshing

He's never built a list from scratch

Not the right fit for us

 

[Praetorian]

Fremantle could easily be top 2 next year, they have an amazing balance of Lyon's defensive hardness and the natural talent and flair to attack and kick big scores. Look out... Especially if they add Goddard to that team too.

Imagine if they'd got Clark. they'd have the best forward combo in the comp

 

[RandB]

Maxwell got 3 weeks, 2 weeks with early guilty plea.

 

[Blackas87]

Maxwell got 3 weeks, 2 weeks with early guilty plea.

Collingwood are back in the race for the flag now.

 

[Marlowe]

Imagine if they'd got Clark. they'd have the best forward combo in the comp

I don't want to imagine our current team without Clark, thanks mate.

 

[Captain Jack]

I don't want to imagine our current team without Clark, thanks mate.

'Team' could be a stretch in that case...