2012 Draft Discussion

[Haso]

a speech from Andy D

Lucky you.

 

[POBT]

The H-S phantom still has us taking Jaksch at 8 and then Graham at #23, on the basis that we'll go tall-small.

I dunno. Even if we take Jaksch at #8 then I'd be OK with taking another tall at #23. I'm not opposed to getting Graham but the H-S still has Clurey and Smith on the board at our second pick. I'd be more than OK with the club taking either, even if Jaksch was our first pick.

 

[Fatcat08]

My ticket says the event starts at 5:40, but the Fox coverage is meant to be live. It wouldn't surprise me if the first 20 minutes included a welcome, a speech from Andy D, and maybe a few other formalities, and then the selecting got underway just after 6 when the TV coverage starts.

Also, this article links us to Dean Towers. Has anyone else heard that connection? Must admit it's new to me. Not sure how well he suits our needs, to be honest.

I think he certainly fills a need in that he has elite speed, athleticism and line breaking ability. Now whether its our most pressing need or not I guess is up for debate, but I don't see him as being the type of player which we have an abundance of. Reading Quigleys writeup, after the first 5 metres he was about the quickest at draft camp this year. We certainly could use pace like that. We do have some but its all in our forward line. That sort of pace on the wing is definitely a need.

Personally I would rather a tall with our later picks, but if we got say Wines (inside mid), Towers (outside runner) and a tall defender or forward I would consider that a decent spread especially given our academy prospects next year.

 

[Voss the boss]

AFL website has in previous years had the draft tracker showing the picks as they happen, along with a radio stream. Radio streams might be live.

Good point cd. Also last year i noticed the trade tracker was updating before the picks on the radio on some occasions. So if you want the element of suprise from the radio, be mindful you may see the draft tracker move before pick is announced.

 

[Fatcat08]

Reading up on Wines and Mayes I'm a little conflicted as to who I would rather. Given Wines has been touted as top 4 for much of the last month or so it feels a lot like when we got Rich. Different player but he seems similar to Rich in that he has a body that can cope with AFL footy already. What he doesn't have is the weapon that Rich has in his disposal, but has a much better endurance base.

Whether he has as high a ceiling as Mayes i'm not sure. I feel like by getting Moloney our need for a ready to go inside mid has abated somewhat although we do need someone developing in that role. Wines is a little more plug and play option in that role. Would be interested to see how we rate Conway in that inside role as more of a development player. Obviously he's not as good a prospect as Wines but is he good enough.

Another player with very very good disposal coming into forward 50, while also being a scoreboard threat up forward is an appealing option.

Really torn on these two but certainly won't be disappointed with either of them. Have a feeling that we will probably take wines if both are available.

 

[LionKing]

Looking forward to watching the draft tonight, but I'm not looking forward to seeing our first draftee wearing our current lions jumper on stage. It might be just me but it looks awful seeing it next to the other club jumpers. Please bring back our premiership guernsey.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

My ticket says the event starts at 5:40, but the Fox coverage is meant to be live. It wouldn't surprise me if the first 20 minutes included a welcome, a speech from Andy D, and maybe a few other formalities, and then the selecting got underway just after 6 when the TV coverage starts.

Also, this article links us to Dean Towers. Has anyone else heard that connection? Must admit it's new to me. Not sure how well he suits our needs, to be honest.

Callum Twomey also mentioned Towers in connection with our last pick but conceded it might be a tad too early for him.

 

[chopperduck]

My ticket says the event starts at 5:40, but the Fox coverage is meant to be live. It wouldn't surprise me if the first 20 minutes included a welcome, a speech from Andy D, and maybe a few other formalities, and then the selecting got underway just after 6 when the TV coverage starts.

Also very likely. They usually take a little bit of time with the first 10 picks too, was t the 10 draft and they did the picture of the top 10 wearing their new jumpers on the stage etc. also making the long trip down from the northside, doors open at 5:15.

 

[chopperduck]

Callum Twomey also mentioned Towers in connection with our last pick but conceded it might be a tad too early for him.

With no other picks, if he was a player we wanted we would simply reach for him. Doesn't matter if its early when I have no other picks. That's assuming you don't rate other players left over as better options though.

 

[jjami15]

Reading up on Wines and Mayes I'm a little conflicted as to who I would rather. Given Wines has been touted as top 4 for much of the last month or so it feels a lot like when we got Rich. Different player but he seems similar to Rich in that he has a body that can cope with AFL footy already. What he doesn't have is the weapon that Rich has in his disposal, but has a much better endurance base.

Whether he has as high a ceiling as Mayes i'm not sure. I feel like by getting Moloney our need for a ready to go inside mid has abated somewhat although we do need someone developing in that role. Wines is a little more plug and play option in that role. Would be interested to see how we rate Conway in that inside role as more of a development player. Obviously he's not as good a prospect as Wines but is he good enough.

Another player with very very good disposal coming into forward 50, while also being a scoreboard threat up forward is an appealing option.

Really torn on these two but certainly won't be disappointed with either of them. Have a feeling that we will probably take wines if both are available.

Stated earlier about leaving my options open so as not to get disappointed if we miss out on Wines. Mayes is the other, just a classy young player.

 

[Ironmonger]

Callum Twomey also mentioned Towers in connection with our last pick but conceded it might be a tad too early for him.

Wouldn't surprise me if we reached for someone with pick #33, seeing as it'll be our last.

Probably not good news for Wrigley if we do nab him.

 

[Viceregal]

So if Wines *was* drafted to us - how far off playing is he and who would he be competing with for a spot?

 

[Grimreepah]

I wonder if the club is crossing all their fingers and toes hoping for a particular player at eight, or whether they think there is not a great deal of difference between the potential options.

 

[Ironmonger]

I wonder if the club is crossing all their fingers and toes hoping for a particular player at eight, or whether they think there is not a great deal of difference between the potential options.

I've wondered the same.

It might even be that we know exactly who we're going to take with our three picks, and that they're not even on the radar for other clubs in the first couple of rounds.

Kerr, Hadley and co might be sitting back right now, reading the various phantom drafts in the media, having a good old laugh.

 

[Grimreepah]

So if Wines *was* drafted to us - how far off playing is he and who would he be competing with for a spot?

It would be hard to get any more ready made as an 18 year than Wines I would have thought. Probably lacks the dynamism of Rich's disposal, but has him well covered for endurance at the same age. I had my best 22 as follows:

B: Adcock, Merrett, Docherty
HB: Golby, Patfull, Maguire
C: Redden, Moloney, Hanley
HF: Rockliff, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, Lisle/Martin, Bewick
R: Leuenberger, Black, Rich
I: Beams, Raines, Green
S: Lester

If no one ever got injured, he'd probably be eyeing off Beams', Raines' or Moloney's spot, but the opportunity to establish himself would probably come in 2014 with the likely departure of Black.

 

[spotthedog1]

Kerr's Writeup is online:

Rob Kerr is the Brisbane Lions’ National Talent Manager. A former AFL player with both North Melbourne (1987-88) and the Sydney Swans (1990-91), he went on to forge a successful professional career which included a period as CEO of the AFL Players’ Association. He joined the Lions midway through 2010 to oversee the Club’s list management and recruiting process.
How many matches do you watch? How many reports do you receive?

Some weekends I will see four or five games live, some weekends two, it all depends on the scheduling.

I watch a lot of AFL at the start of the year and spend the last few months cross-checking the non-AFL players the recruiters are highlighting as well as trying to keep a close eye on the AFL.

The recruiting network has logged over 3,500 player reports on our database so we have a great tool for reviewing how targeted players have performed when they have been viewed. Some prospects will have had 15 reports written on them which allows us to track their season in significant detail.

Who ultimately has the final say on the Club’s recruiting strategy? Or is it done in consultation with the recruiting team and football department?
The process is certainly consultative, the recruiting team and the coaches have wide ranging discussions and everyone has the opportunity to put their view forward.

At the pointy end if there is a divergence of opinion, Michael (Voss) is happy to put his faith in the recruiting team as they have seen the players live and followed them for an extended period of time.

How much say do the Lions coaches have in the final selection?
The more senior coaches (Michael Voss and Mark Harvey) and Dean Warren have a strong say.

We have to take into account of what type of player they feel they need, and they are perfectly entitled to challenge our opinion, which they do, and we need to have an answer for them.

Ultimately we are a Club building a team that needs to have the capability to win a Premiership. Therefore we may have to pass over some highly rated talent to select a player that fills a specific need that simply has to be addressed if you want a team that can compete with the best on the biggest stage.

We have to ask ourselves how do you think this player would stand up and contribute to the team on Grand Final day?

Every website and paper has supplied their own Phantom Drafts. How accurate are they? Can they sometimes be misleading for the general public?
The journalists and avid talent followers seem to do a pretty good job with the Top 10-15 but after that it’s really guesswork. I’ve seen a few and they often have good write-ups on the youngsters but the order is different to how the recruiting teams are likely to see it.

Even those close to it can find it hard - AFL National and International Talent Manager Kevin Sheehan had a player in his top 30 last year who wasn’t selected in the National Draft. Clubs prioritise different attributes to those outside the club.

What are the biggest risks associated with the Draft?

Your biggest risks are the intangible qualities that will ultimately determine success.

Drive, self belief, work ethic, attention to detail - these sorts of attributes will see many less talented players overtake those with more talent.

Another risk that is significant for us is that you are moving an 18 year-old boy who finished school less than 10 days ago to another State, away from his support network.

It’s not always easy to predict how that transition will go, but Manny Lynch and our football staff do their very best to make it work.

What would be your final word for Lions fans?

No doubt many supporters will have their favourites that they hope are selected, and the reality is we can only take three players.

The Lions’ faithful can be assured that those involved in this process have put in the work and debated the relative merits of players in the context of our list ad nauseam.
Each player is selected with a particular end in mind, and we have the belief that in our system they can achieve those aspirations. At the end of the day though, it will be up to the player to take control of his career and it will most likely be a few years before we get a good read on how that is going to turn out.

 

[Quigley]

If no one ever got injured, he'd probably be eyeing off Beams', Raines' or Moloney's spot, but the opportunity to establish himself would probably come in 2014 with the likely departure of Black.

Voss has said many times he prefers not to play first year players. I think we are more likely to see more of Yeo, Crisp and Docherty than pick 8 next year.

 

[dlanod]

Voss has said many times he prefers not to play first year players. I think we are more likely to see more of Yeo, Crisp and Docherty than pick 8 next year.

There's an exception to every rule - Rich was one. I suspect Wines might be a second, but he'd probably be about the only draftee this year to be so. Mayes and Macrae tend to be the other midfielders attached to our pick, and I'd imagine they'd be eased in.

 

[captainrich]

reading between the lines i got the impression they want to go for needs rather than best available, might end up being jacksh if they rate that he will do the job in the future

 

[Harris Specter]

Does anyone see the club picking Jaksch even though Wines is available?

 

[Bert Man]

Brett Anderson says that he is hearing that Wines is Port bound

 

[thoselionslads]

With Hadley our main man in SA, I'm confident we should have a good handle on Mayes vs Menzel (if it comes to that).

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Sounding more and more like it (Jaksch). For me, there is more than a hint of 'needs over talent' in Kerr's comments.

 

[Toffee Lion]

Not to keen on Jaksch to be honest.

Would prefer Menzel/Wines/Mayes.

 

[theteamtobeat]

Pick 8 – Players we might choose from:

OLIVER WINES,
Height: 188cm, Weight: 90kg, DOB: 7/10/1994
Wines will be a Brisbane player if he is not selected by Port. I see Wines as the perfect replacement for Blacky, when the champ retires and in the words of Jed Adcock "Blackie will retire, well you'd think he'd retire soon ... elite midfielders, if there's one there you've got to take them. Port has a tough choice to choose between South Australian players like Grundy, Menzel and Mayes. The fact that Ben Jacobs left the club because of homesickness factors in Wines as a 50% chance he will be at the Lions next year.
The level of consistency Wines demonstrated this year was outstanding. 53% of his possessions were contested and there is no questions in mind that Sheedy loves big strong contested beast midfielders. This kid is ready to go round 1 next year.
Strong medium midfielder with a distinct hard edge that wins him contested ball, including at the stoppages. Has elite endurance and can push forward and hit the scoreboard. Ferocious tackler who is a good overhead mark and prolific ball winner. Averaged 24.2 disposals for Vic Country in the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships this year winning All-Australian honours. AIS-AFL Academy Graduate.

NAB AFL Combine Results: Beep Test – 14.2

X-factor: “His competitive nature and footy smarts make him a consistent high level ball winner and performer for his team.”



SAM MAYES,
Height: 187cm, Weight: 78kg, DOB: 20/5/1994
Port Adelaide declared they would draft the best available SA boy. I have no doubt that will be Sam Mayes or Daniel Menzel. If Port choose Wines then Mayes or Menzel are good chance to end up at the Lions, but at this stage Mayes is leading the pack. Mayes has good marking, kicking, and athlete qualties. He has all the bells and whistle to be an outstanding player.
Medium forward who has good speed and elite agility and is a good set shot for goal. Reads the game well as a lead-up forward and starred for SA at the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships level in 2011, winning All Australian honours. Played midfield roles also in U18s this year to continue his development which already sees him playing senior football for North Adelaide. Graduate of
the AIS-AFL Academy.

NAB AFL Combine Results: Didn’t test due to minor knee injury. However has previously tested with AIS-AFL Academy Running Vertical Jump Right - 80cm, 20m Sprint - 2.95 secs, Agility - 7.92 secs, Beep Test - 14.4

X-factor: “A one touch player on the lead and at ground level with an innate ability around
goals.”


TROY MENZEL,
Height: 187cm, Weight: 78kg, DOB: 22/9/1994
If Wines goes to Port then the Lions have to decide between Mayes or Menzel. It’s a difficult choice as Mayes could have a Jack Darling type of year in 2013, but Menzel is a top 3 talent. I know everyone is saying he has bad knees, but look at Joel Selwood, Dyson Heppell and Chris Judd back when they were drafted and had injury concerns. Plus he had an injury interrupted (carrying a hip injury) under 18 championship season. Menzel would add X-factor and goal scoring power that the Bulldogs need and can also rotate through the midfield. With Daniel Giansiracusa nearing to the back end of his career and the delisting of Sherman and Hooper, Menzel would also suit the needs of the Bulldogs is well.
Left-footed medium forward with exceptional goal sense both on the run and with set shots. Kicked nine goals vs Tasmania and six goals vs NT in sensational fashion in first two games of the 2012 NAB AFL Under 18 Championships before a groin injury interrupted his season. He starred for the Australian U18 team on the European tour earlier this year. Brother of Geelong Cats’ Daniel and
member of the AIS-AFL Academy.

NAB AFL Combine Results: Didn’t test due to recent knee injury however have previously tested with the AIS-AFL Academy. 20m Sprint - 3.07 secs, Agility - 8.36 secs

X-factor: “His vision and awareness are elite, which helps him win the ball and make quick accurate decisions with his disposal.”



Pick 23 – Players we might choose from:

DAYLE GARLETT,
Height: 180cm, Weight: 75kg, DOB: 9/1/1994
If Garlett is available at pick 23 then I hope the Lions grab him. I know Quigley rates this kid as a top 6 draft prospect in his phantom draft. Everyone knows about Garlett’s off-field issues, but the upside to this kid is too good to refuse and still very raw.
Left footed medium forward/midfielder who can find space to win the ball and shows great evasiveness through traffic. Very smart goal kicker and stoppage player as well. Excelled for WA in the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships, averaging 19.2 possessions, 3.4 clearances and winning All-Australian honours.

NAB AFL Combine Results: Running Vertical Jump Right – 79cm (Top 26%), Agility – 8.42 secs (Top 26%)

X-factor: “His pin point left foot is his most damaging weapon, particularly around goals where he has an innate ability to kick the near impossible.”


TOM CLUREY,
Height: 192cm, Weight: 85kg, DOB: 23/3/1994
Would be a great addition to our key position stocks if he is still there at our pick.
A strong bodied tall defender that reads the play very well. Can shut down opposition key forwards whilst also providing good rebound from defence. Displays excellent leadership qualities, very good endurance and strong hands in the marking contest. Played all five games for Vic Country at the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships, averaging 11.8 disposals and 3.8 rebound 50’s.

NAB AFL Combine Results: Beep Test – 15.1, 3km – 10min 01secs (Top 2%)

X-factor: “His ability to run all day was confirmed when he recorded a 15.1 beep test at the NAB AFL Draft Combine in extremely hot conditions. This separates him from other tall defenders.”


JESSE LONERGAN, Height: 182cm, Weight: 91kg, DOB: 14/11/1994
If we take Wines, then there is a small chance we are going to get Lonergan. The Tasmanian product is a tough medium midfielder who attacks the ball aggressively and is clean with his ball handling and distribution. Has explosive power and is very competitive, always showing great intensity around the contest and strong second efforts. Overcame injury to play the final three matches in the NAB AFL Under 18 Championships, averaging 16.3 disposals and laying 5.3 tackles per game. AIS-AFL Academy Graduate.
NAB AFL Combine Results: Standing Vertical Jump – 83cm (Top 1%)
X-factor: “A star at the stoppages using his speed, power and clean hands to great effect.”

TANNER SMITH,
Height: 196cm, Weight: 87kg, DOB: 9/3/1994
It’s well documented that Brisbane need to start developing key position players and there is no doubt that Smith has been linked to us at this pick. Smith would add depth to our defensive stocks and also allow Merrett to play forward.
Tall defender who has good closing speed and reads the game extremely well coming into the opposition forward line. Makes good decisions on when to mark or spoil and provides good run from defence. Has shown ability to go forward and have an impact. Stood tall for Vic Country in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships this year matching up well on the opposition's best forward.
Smith stepped into North Ballarat's centre half-back position last year as a bottom-age player and established himself as a promising player. As a 17-year-old he took on some of the best forwards in the TAC Cup, including Jonathon Patton, the first player picked at last year's NAB AFL Draft. In 2012, Smith played most of the year in defence before the Rebels gave him some exposure as a key forward late in the season. He showed signs it could be a switch he makes more often in the future, although he will be drafted for his defensive and disciplined efforts. The 18-year-old is getting stronger, can run all day and is very good at shutting down an opponent and limiting their influence.


Pick 33 – Players we might choose from:

MASON SHAW,
Height: 198cm, Weight: 87kg, DOB: 15/1/1994
The Lions failed to get Tippett and need to start developing young key forwards to prepare for post Jonathan Brown era. Besides Jonathan Brown, Brisbane does not have an established key forward. Daniel Merrett and Brent Staker playing forward don't count. Shaw a key forward that you can build a team around and can had a similar year to Jack Darling (before Darling got drafted).
Shaw is a powerful tall forward who excels in pressure situations - he followed up last year's seven-goal Grand Final haul for South Fremantle colts with another five goals in this year's premiership decider. He kicked 66 goals for the Bulldogs last year, but he suffered facial fractures early this season in an off-the-ball incident involving West Coast's Mitch Brown, which required surgery that put him out for more than three months. He's an accurate and long kick for goal from set shots, can also pinch-hit in the ruck, has a good tank and shows good leadership potential.
Tall forward who is very strong overhead and has smarts around goals. Kicked seven goals in the WAFL colts Grand Final in 2011. A reliable kick for goal from set shots as well as clever with his snap shots. Has excellent endurance for a tall with a beep score of 14-plus showing his potential to play across half-forward. Kicked four goals for WA against Vic Country this year. AIS-AFL Academy graduate.

JACKSON THURLOW,
Height: 191cm, Weight: 82kg, DOB: 28/3/1994
Thurlow’s a third tall in defence type that can also push through the midfield. Brisbane has a knack for drafting Tasmanians here and has been linked to the Lions. He played loose during the Champs and really stood out with his contested marking and ability to read the play.
At the Champs, in game 1 he collected 25 possessions with 8 tackles. In game 2 he amassed an amazing 45 possessions at 76% efficiency, with also 11 marks. Game 3; 20 possessions and 8 marks at 85% efficiency. Game 4; 19 possessions at 79% efficiency and 14 possessions at 93% efficiency.
Medium defender who reads the play exceptionally well cutting off opposition forward moves and providing a running option on the way out. Averaged 24.6 disposals and 6.6 marks winning All Australian honours in the 2012 NAB AFL Under 18 Championships.
NAB AFL Combine Results: Running Vertical Jump Left – 86cm (Top 11%)
X-factor: “Terrific decision maker including knowing when to attack and when to defend. Executes superbly by foot.”

NICK GRAHAM,
Height: 183cm, Weight: 76kg, DOB: 12/6/1994
Medium midfielder who is a terrific competitor with great lateral movement and evasive ability. Strong overhead and very good by foot, he has been a prolific ball winner for Gippsland Power this year, averaging 25 disposals .Can also play role up forward presenting as a target and applying good defensive pressure. Capped off a great year by winning the Morrish Medal as the TAC Cup’s best and fairest player.
NAB AFL Combine Results: Didn’t test due to pending minor right knee surgery.
X-factor: “Excels at getting through the congestion, with his lateral movement and evasive skills a real feature of his play.”

ANDREW BOSTON,
Height: 180cm, Weight: 76kg, DOB: 23/3/1994
Andrew played 9 games for Broadbeach, averaging 15 kicks, 3 handballs, 18 disposals, 6 marks, 4 inside 50’s, 2 tackles, 1 clearance and kicked 15 goals and 5 behinds. His ball use stands out. He’s very balanced and can kick off both feet. He’s mostly an outside midfielder with the ability to push forward and kick goals. He can win a lot of the ball, and showed that during the Champs on occasions.

SPENCER WHITE,
Height: 196cm, Weight: 85kg, DOB: 22/9/1994
White is a very athletic tall forward coming off a 36 goal season in the TAC Cup. He was fairly consistent through the year, kicking goals in all but three games and often using his athleticism to pinch hit in the ruck.
In terms of his athleticism White was in the top 2% at the Draft Combine for the standing vertical jump, he was the best at the running jump (coming within 2cm of Nic Naitanui’s record), top 10% in the 5m sprint and 10m sprint and top 7% in the 20m sprint. His straight line pace is incredible and when you combine that with his jump, it makes him a very scary prospect as a developing full forward. He ran a 12.7 in the shuttle run, and that was in 30 degree heat so he didn’t too badly there. He was in the bottom 12% in the 3km time trial and the bottom 41% for VO2 max recordings. He averaged 1.5 tackles a game.
Where he’s most dangerous is deep forward, so the ball can be sat on top of his head and he can run and jump at it. His contested marking is a feature, where he averages 1.7 a game but his conversion is even more impressive. He kicked 36 goals and 12 behinds for the season, putting him in the elite category for goal conversion. He also kicked the ball at 71% efficiency through the season, which is outstanding for a key forward.