2012 Draft Discussion

[spotthedog1]

See, I don't like using this video... I know it looks awesome, but I see it as two sided... Harwood got to him and stopped rather than plowing through him... in fact, his first effort was so ineffective that Magner literally threw him to the ground with one arm. However at the same time, Harwood was strong enough to hold on and pull Magner down with him... Two sided, as I say...

 

[Hollow Knight]

I think it's just flat out awesome myself.

 

[KeSter]

See, I don't like using this video... I know it looks awesome, but I see it as two sided... Harwood got to him and stopped rather than plowing through him... in fact, his first effort was so ineffective that Magner literally threw him to the ground with one arm. However at the same time, Harwood was strong enough to hold on and pull Magner down with him... Two sided, as I say...

The boy hasn't stopped growing yet, in many ways; that is the point I was making.

This is just an example of his strength and potential, not a finished product.

I agree I could be incredibly wrong, and I also have misgivings about his application at times; but this could also be a product of not having a great football brain (yet).

But you can get away with not being the smartest on the park by being able to hit like a train.

There is where I see heaps of upside in him, as an inside mid; on heavy grounds he could dominate the centre.

Edit: Just got back from a run and realised it probably isn't application, there is no way that kid could have got that strong at his age without a work ethic second to none, just doesn't fit the picture.

Before



After

 

[Ironmonger]

See, I don't like using this video... I know it looks awesome, but I see it as two sided... Harwood got to him and stopped rather than plowing through him... in fact, his first effort was so ineffective that Magner literally threw him to the ground with one arm. However at the same time, Harwood was strong enough to hold on and pull Magner down with him... Two sided, as I say...

Interesting...

I think if Harwood had plowed through him he probably would have made contact with the head and picked up a suspension.

 

[Panthera]

We need to get Mayesy into the gym.

Has broad shoulders - he'll add size and definition within a couple of pre-seasons.

 

[whatboutbob]

Mayes may be a couple of inches shorter but he reminds me quite a bit of Pavlich in his frame and attributes. I've no doubt he'll add sufficient bulk.

 

[whatboutbob]

Close really is a bit of a unit, isn't he? Spose it helps standing next to two rakes.

 

[KeSter]

Mayes may be a couple of inches shorter but he reminds me quite a bit of Pavlich in his frame and attributes. I've no doubt he'll add sufficient bulk.

Reminds me of Royce Hart

 

[KeSter]

Actually way, way off topic but that vid reminds of a doggies/blues game I saw back in the '90.

Justin Madden was standing in the middle with the ball looking for a hand off when little Libba came flying in nearly horizontal, hit Madden clean in the middle and wrapped around him like the little alien face hugger he was.

Madden just toppled in slow mo, like a tree falling!

Ah now I'm laughing again just writing about it.

Libba and goliath!





Mind you that little fella could lift that side like no one else.

 

[Dylan12]

I'm not going to tear you down, or attack you for your opinion. But if you think the decisions were bad. Who would you have taken with our picks?

Did you actually read my post smart guy?

The selection of Paprone and Close has nothing to do with it. My post was about the fact that we have brought in about 5 guys in 12 months that are not that dissimilar. I'm hardly surprised you couldn't work that out.

And who would you have traded for if not the guys we went after?

Did I not make that clear? I said Wines and described what I liked about him and followed that up with an acknowledgment that obviously he was gone, so I therefore would have preferred Hrovat. You may recall, I reasoned that I thought Mayes was too similar a player to Polec.

I find it hard to believe that the solution to our list weaknesses/problems was available to us and we missed it. That seems to be the position you're taking though, that somehow we failed, and missed other options that were clearly better.

Is it? That is a pretty extreme position to take based off my post in respect to the club brining in a plethora of very similar type of player based on the fear of Brown's imminent failure and the club's failure to land Hogan.

I'm happy for you to correct me on this, but I doubt very much that you can.

On what basis?

Because I'm a stupid and an uneducated man unlike your learned and esteemed self.

I will tear you down for agreeing with Wallace though. He's a fool, and very regularly he is very wrong. In fact he doesn't often get much right, or offer any actual insight, his contributions are typically regurgitated opinions of others, or vague and/or obvious observations. Agreeing with him does bring your own judgement into question

Fair enough. I personally don't mind him and thought for a period there at the Dogs, he was quite revolutionary in the manner he let the media in etc. Sure he failed spectacularly at Richmond, but I do actually give the man credit for his knowledge of the game. Same thing could one day be said about Voss and his reason to bring in Fevola and all the by-products of that, but like Wallace, Im prepared to give Voss the benefit of the doubt.

 

[KeSter]

You may recall, I reasoned that I thought Mayes was too similar a player to Polec.

In which universe is a lead up forward like an outside midfielder?

(sounds like a the start of a good joke, can anyone give us the punch line?).

Fair enough. I personally don't mind him and thought for a period there at the Dogs, he was quite revolutionary in the manner he let the media in etc. Sure he failed spectacularly at Richmond, but I do actually give the man credit for his knowledge of the game. Same thing could one day be said about Voss and his reason to bring in Fevola and all the by-products of that, but like Wallace, Im prepared to give Voss the benefit of the doubt.

Being revolutionary with the media does not bring any success.

If Wallace was in any shape or form a half decent coach why then, when Port was looking preferably for a senior coach with experience didn't they even entertain interviewing this guy "you don't mind"?

Can't even get a gig as senior assistant any more.

Not much of a recommendation of the bloke know as 'Mr Dial a quote'.

Fail, so much fail here.

 

[MacMum]

Mayes may be a couple of inches shorter but he reminds me quite a bit of Pavlich in his frame and attributes. I've no doubt he'll add sufficient bulk.

I also thought of Pavlich when I saw him go up for his jumper.....lets hope he's even half as good, we'll be laughing!

 

[Dylan12]

Being revolutionary with the media does not bring any success.

If Wallace was in any shape or form a half decent coach why then, when Port was looking preferably for a senior coach with experience didn't they even entertain interviewing this guy "you don't mind"?

Can't even get a gig as senior assistant any more.

Not much of a recommendation of the bloke know as 'Mr Dial a quote'.

Fail, so much fail here.

Considering you have added absolutely nothing to my response to karix, jog on tough guy. You completely missed the point that I don't mind Wallace; now tell me smart guy, or should I say 12 year old kid, what on earth has my post got to do with Wallace as a coach or ability to coach and my opinion of him as a person. And then you want to come on here and say my post is a failure.

Have some intelligence and respond in kind than going off on some tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with someone's post.

 

[KeSter]

Considering you have added absolutely nothing to my response to karix, jog on tough guy. You completely missed the point that I don't mind Wallace; now tell me smart guy, or should I say 12 year old kid, what on earth has my post got to do with Wallace as a coach or ability to coach and my opinion of him as a person. And then you want to come on here and say my post is a failure.

Have some intelligence and respond in kind than going off on some tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with someone's post.

Ok so you have a man crush on Wallace, it's ok we get that.

And you can drop all the "smart guy"/"tough guy" talk, really makes you sound like a bad cliche.

Like Bruce Willis with dementia.

Answer me how a lead up forward is in any way, shape or form like an outside midfielder. RE: Mayes/Polac

It's important to establish what kind of delusions of mental competence you maybe having.

And I am clearly not 12 years old if you bothered to read any other posts but your own, but I just felt I would bring it down to your level; so you didn't feel intimidated.

 

[carnthemlions]

Considering you have added absolutely nothing to my response to karix, jog on tough guy. You completely missed the point that I don't mind Wallace; now tell me smart guy, or should I say 12 year old kid, what on earth has my post got to do with Wallace as a coach or ability to coach and my opinion of him as a person. And then you want to come on here and say my post is a failure.

Have some intelligence and respond in kind than going off on some tangent that has absolutely nothing to do with someone's post.

I never thought I'd see someone so willing to defend terry wallet.
It seems to me that you take any questioning of your position as a personal insult- that's really not necessary.
And you would've taken hrovat at 8?
Would've been a bit of a reach imo.

 

[POBT]

Couple of posters overstepping the mark. Take a step back, if you can't post in a constructive manner.

 

[KeSter]

Oh dear, got carded....

Can't play around here anymore for a while, never mind; such is life, I always take my punishment gracefully.

I acknowledge I am a hawk (I live by touch one touch all), but I always allow the doves to rule; it's just how it should be.

Talk to you all in another week.

RAWR.

 

[Dylan12]

I never thought I'd see someone so willing to defend terry wallet.

As I said, I don't mind the man and having dealt with him professionally, have a lot of respect for him and his very long career in the AFL industry. I also quite like Grant Thomas and Caroline Wilson and a few others that most can't stand. I suppose that makes me a pretty bad person then.

It seems to me that you take any questioning of your position as a personal insult- that's really not necessary.

Not really, but I do get insulted when some child comes on and rants about something that I never said.

And you would've taken hrovat at 8? Would've been a bit of a reach imo.

Fair enough, each unto their own. I know we recruited Moloney to assist with clearances and inside work, I was just hoping that we would compliment that with another young tough inside mid, which IMO, we lack badly. Our struggles with centre clearances is primarily the reason. Hence why I was hoping Wines would have slipped through to us. It is not a knock on Mayes at all, I just reckon we have more glaring deficiencies in our team than the need for a forward/outside mid.

 

[Skoob]

Did you actually read my post smart guy?

The selection of Paprone and Close has nothing to do with it. My post was about the fact that we have brought in about 5 guys in 12 months that are not that dissimilar. I'm hardly surprised you couldn't work that out.

.

Everyone read your post mate. No need for the defensive aggro. I think it's pretty reasonable to ask if you want to protest club decisions that you offer reasoned alternatives.

Did I not make that clear? I said Wines and described what I liked about him and followed that up with an acknowledgment that obviously he was gone, so I therefore would have preferred Hrovat. You may recall, I reasoned that I thought Mayes was too similar a player to Polec.

.

Not much point offering up an alternative that wasn't available (that by definition was not an alternaive).
Hrovat was clearly not the next best available and not worth pick 8.

Fair enough. I personally don't mind him and thought for a period there at the Dogs, he was quite revolutionary in the manner he let the media in etc. Sure he failed spectacularly at Richmond, but I do actually give the man credit for his knowledge of the game. Same thing could one day be said about Voss and his reason to bring in Fevola and all the by-products of that, but like Wallace, Im prepared to give Voss the benefit of the doubt.

Ah, that old chestnut. I think anyone considering that situation rationally can see that Fev was a gamble, but considering where the team was at, it was a worthwhile one. The results of the first 4 rounds that had us on top of the ladder suggests the worth of the gamble. That the gamble failed in retrospect does not discount the reasoning behind it.
Lose some of the anger mate, not just at other posters but more importantly at the club. We're actually on the same team.

 

[lionshine]

Oh dear, got carded....

Can't play around here anymore for a while, never mind; such is life, I always take my punishment gracefully.

I acknowledge I am a hawk (I live by touch one touch all), but I always allow the doves to rule; it's just how it should be.

Talk to you all in another week.

RAWR.

You never were playing around. I am surprised you got carded to be honest. The things Duritz and this Lionshine account got up to back in the day were 1000 times worse and barely got anything more than you have! Stop being so trigger happy POBT

 

[Skoob]

You never were playing around. I am surprised you got carded to be honest. The things Duritz and this Lionshine account got up to back in the day were 1000 times worse and barely got anything more than you have! Stop being so trigger happy POBT

Oooh. Not game to click on the like button.

 

[karix]

Did you actually read my post smart guy?

I did. Now can you drop the aggressive language and have a proper conversation?

The selection of Paprone and Close has nothing to do with it. My post was about the fact that we have brought in about 5 guys in 12 months that are not that dissimilar. I'm hardly surprised you couldn't work that out.

Surely they must have something to do with it if they are 2 out of the 5 guys... and if they have nothing to do with it why did you refer to them in your post?

Did I not make that clear? I said Wines and described what I liked about him and followed that up with an acknowledgment that obviously he was gone, so I therefore would have preferred Hrovat. You may recall, I reasoned that I thought Mayes was too similar a player to Polec.

You dropped 2 names. 1 was unavailable at our pick and the other you mentioned in passing. Could you expand on why you want Hrovat so much more than Mayes? It's really hard to have a reasonable conversation when you drop a name and expect me to know why you prefer that player just from the half a sentence in which you spoke about him.

I find it hard to believe that the solution to our list weaknesses/problems was available to us and we missed it. That seems to be the position you're taking though, that somehow we failed, and missed other options that were clearly better.

Is it? That is a pretty extreme position to take based off my post in respect to the club brining in a plethora of very similar type of player based on the fear of Brown's imminent failure and the club's failure to land Hogan.

It's not extreme at all, since you just said failure twice in your reply to it, and you're bagging out the choices we've made. So you obviously believe that the club failed, and that there were better options. But you've listed 1 that was unavailable (Wines, so not an option) and mentioned Hrovat in passing. I'm just asking for you to provide some content, instead of hollow negative statements. I'm fine with negative comments, but put some reasoning into them, please.

I'm happy for you to correct me on this, but I doubt very much that you can.

On what basis?

Because I'm a stupid and an uneducated man unlike your learned and esteemed self.

Pointless negativity and trying to twist my words and intent does not make you right, prove me wrong, or make you look smart by attacking me.

I doubted you could correct me because I don't think there were options that were available to the Club that were clearly better than the ones we took. Which is what you seem to be suggesting, but at this stage are unable or unwilling to back up with some reasons or analysis.

All I'm asking is some content to read, and since you and the others who disagree with the clubs decisions must have reasons, I am really interested in hearing them. They are probably good reasons, and I may end up agreeing with them if you explain them to me.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

I reckon having Close on board might put a bit of a cracker up Lisle - show him how to be a bit more aggressive. Could be good for both players.

 

[notliondown]

I'm sort of dumbfounded by all this talk of crap recruiting... sheer statistics dictate that chances are you will get it wrong more times than right. If it didnt every team in the comp would be full of champions.

Just stop and think about the stuff being said. Use some logic. Lets look at 2008 onwards... lets look at the work of Kerr and co.

If the average kid is recruited at 18 via the draft and starts to reach reach his peak and potential at 24/25 as his body hardens to match some of his natural skills as is suggested by endless coaches including our own then, clearly there's a hell of a long time for every player to have his name slagged off in between times as a spud or not being elite or whatever crazy off the cuff, degrading, unquantified and unqualified piece of drivel that all the arm chair critics deem flavor of the month. I'm pretty sure we could all agree its a bit of a "freak" player that stands out beforehand on a consistent, game in game out basis, year after year.

For an 18 year old to have been drafted in 2008 to reach his "potential" we're talking 2014 at the earliest to see just what he might be fully capable of.

2014.

2 years away. 2 years before we see Redden, Rich, Rocky or Acorn hit their straps. Clearly some will develop sooner than others and most say a forward takes the longest but holy shitballs if that's crap recruiting to still be two years away from the peaks of these guys then I'd love to see who did better.

Its 3 years before Harwood, Beams, Golby or O'Brien peak.

4 before we can expect to see Green, Polec, Lester or Beams get to achieve their potential.

So for everyone so quick to paint people as spuds or less than elite its really time to step back and have a good long think about what you are saying. No one recruited to play AFL at the national level is less than elite. Thats why they're recruited. Whether they are the elite of the elite is all that remains to be determined. For the armchair critics to talk about these guys like they're the cast offs of a year 9 First 18 squad is an insult.

Try to remember these are kids. If they were apprentices the class of 08 they would be 4th years. Only now would an employer start to see the rewards for his efforts... just as we are. If they were uni students some wouldn't have finished their courses yet.

And yet its perfectly ok to sit here and slag off a 2nd year apprentice like Polec because he suddenly should be a fully qualified and expereinced tradesman? Really?

Chances are the best years of our team are coming... they'll be here before we know it. Its then, and only then can we with any real informed discussion judge our recruitment and its success or failure.Somehow I have a feeling we might be dishing out more passes than fails by the time that rolls around.

 

[lionshine]

Oooh. Not game to click on the like button.

I hate it when I don't understand stuff! Enlighten me Skoob to your classic reply!