2012 Draft Discussion

[Quigley]

If I was GWS I would ask for Longer and Clarke. Both are young and play in positions of need for the Giants and the loss of both might be acceptable to the Lions. It would require a bit of fancy footwork given Clarke is a rookie but I am sure the AFL will bend the rules as they have done consistently for the expansion clubs.

 

[Triple R]

i suggested previously it may involve golby to get hogan, who knows only gws does . needs vs wants

Are you serious about wanting to trade Golby?

He was a standout for us this year. He has speed and a great kick. Most importantly he stood up against stonger sides, competed with and more often than not beat his opponent one on one. He will be a very important part of our side in the years to come.

 

[POBT]

If I was GWS I would ask for Longer and Clarke. Both are young and play in positions of need for the Giants and the loss of both might be acceptable to the Lions. It would require a bit of fancy footwork given Clarke is a rookie but I am sure the AFL will bend the rules as they have done consistently for the expansion clubs.

You can now trade rookies I believe. Josh Jenkins.

In terms of what GWS might ask for, I don't reckon they'd ask for Longer. Firstly, if they really wanted him, they had ample opportunity to draft him last year. Secondly, assuming they get a top 5 pick for their MD pick, they are a pretty good chance at getting Grundy who is only 12 months younger.

I just can't think of a player that they'd want and we'd be happy to trade for an MD pick. Just doesn't seem like a possibility that players will come into it (edit: except as loose change).

 

[footymaad]

Pick 49
Hope we take a local with this pick and Clay Cameron may be available. Cameron can play forward or back as a KPP so he adds valueable versitility. Brian Coleman-Broome is another who should be available at this pick and is another local lad. Brian would add GREAT leg speed to midfield and forward line. Alex Boston is another local lad who should feauture around this pick he can play forward and back.

Coleman-Broome certainly has great speed, evasive skills and kicking is very good, and when he puts it all together is a great talent - had that x factor about him - just watch some of the Qld 18's highlights. Question mark has always been his desire and work ethic - all the boys who have played with him will tell you he's not a great trainer! So endurance has always been a problem. At draft camp will test very well in sprints etc but probably much worse in 3km and beep. I suspect in his case the interviews will be more important than the testing results.

Question is in an AFL environment will things change and could a team get him motivated to work hard and get his fitness to level required. If yes he could be a bargain in the draft - depends on the degree of risk the clubs feel there is that this might not happen.

On other hand there is no doubt Cameron and Andrew Boston have the motivation - sure they are training 7 days a week to present themselves in best condition for draft camp. Then it's about how much improvement its felt they have in them and what roles they could play in a specific team looking at them.

Would have to think Suns will take 1 Qld zone selection (maybe no more this year?) - question is which one/s will they take?

 

[Sunny_]

Would love the Suns to take both as zone selections.

How many we pick up I think depends entirely on how we progress through trade week.

 

[POBT]

i suggested previously it may involve golby to get hogan, who knows only gws does . needs vs wants

Well, I guess you are right that only GWS knows what they want but I think we can take a rough guess that they'll be looking for a fair bit more than a somewhat promising back pocket in exchange for the 1st or 2nd best player to be available next year.

I'm as big a fan of Golby's as anyone and I don't think his development has gone unnoticed in the broader footy world. But realistically, if GWS want players, they aren't going to be keen to have Mitch Golby as the centrepiece of any MD trade.

 

[charles202]

I am intrigued by Adam Carter from WA at pick 30, reading the few snippets that are around he reminds me a lot of Jed Adcock, having only recenlty focused himself on footy I would have thought he would have a fair bit of upside that hasn’t really been tapped yet.

 

[dlanod]

If I was GWS I would ask for Longer and Clarke. Both are young and play in positions of need for the Giants and the loss of both might be acceptable to the Lions. It would require a bit of fancy footwork given Clarke is a rookie but I am sure the AFL will bend the rules as they have done consistently for the expansion clubs.

You can absolutey trade rookies now. Both Mumford and Jenkins were traded off their club's rookie lists.

 

[Quigley]

I am intrigued by Adam Carter from WA at pick 30, reading the few snippets that are around he reminds me a lot of Jed Adcock, having only recenlty focused himself on footy I would have thought he would have a fair bit of upside that hasn’t really been tapped yet.

If he gets out of the second round I will be surprised. I think he is flying a little bit under the radar on BF atm.

 

[Quigley]

You can now trade rookies I believe. Josh Jenkins.

In terms of what GWS might ask for, I don't reckon they'd ask for Longer. Firstly, if they really wanted him, they had ample opportunity to draft him last year. Secondly, assuming they get a top 5 pick for their MD pick, they are a pretty good chance at getting Grundy who is only 12 months younger.

I just can't think of a player that they'd want and we'd be happy to trade for an MD pick. Just doesn't seem like a possibility that players will come into it (edit: except as loose change).

Last year I think one of the things that would have scared them off Longer was his kicking. He has improved this a hell of a lot in one year and there is no reason to think that won't continue to happen. Longer has also shown he can mix it up in senior company and look like a really nice prospect. Just because GWS decided to play silly buggers and try and have your cake and eat it too doesn't mean they didn't rate him or that they can't take steps the following year to fix the mistake when he has shown nice development.

I would still rate Grundy as the better prospect but if they wanted to use their high picks on other players say Toumpas and Mayes, then Longer would look nice as your development ruck.

FWIW I think it would be a hard sell to get one player to GWS let alone two so I think there is zero chance of the trade actually happenning. Its just that if I was GWS that is who I would ask for.

 

[Offsider]

Coming into this year I though that Adam Carter would have a great year and skyrocket up the draft order. He has been a little underwhelming but the potential is still there, I think he would be an excellent pick up in the second round, he has a fair bit of untapped talent, and although he is prone to the odd mistake he has a lot of time with the ball and generally shows composure.

 

[HPLion]

Kristian Jaksch doesn't seem to have had much discussion. I have not seen him play at all but he reads well and can play key position at both ends. Would he not be a better option that Shaw at 8?

 

[Bert Man]

Kristian Jaksch doesn't see to have had much discussion. I have not seen him play at all but he reads well and can play key position at both ends. Would he not be a better option that Shaw at 8?

No he may be available at pick 23 Shaw wont

 

[Offsider]

Kristian Jaksch doesn't seem to have had much discussion. I have not seen him play at all but he reads well and can play key position at both ends. Would he not be a better option that Shaw at 8?

I think Jaksch will go before Shaw, he is also a fantastic contested mark. I think Pick 8 will be a bit high unless he has a great Draft Camp ... even then

 

[HPLion]

I think Jaksch will go before Shaw, he is also a fantastic contested mark. I think Pick 8 will be a bit high unless he has a great Draft Camp ... even then

Is he then worth spending overs on at 8 particularly if he can cover both ends well? I don't read this about Shaw or Hogan.

 

[Offsider]

I don't think he would be best available, but he is not that far off being worthy of pick 8 imo. We do need an high quality young key position prospect, I think that Jaksch has the makings of being a good Key position player, but I am not sure if he will be the dominant no. 1 prospect, he could be though just not sold. History suggests that all the very good key position players in the AFL are mainly high draft picks or Father Sons:

Tom Hawkins, Jonathan Brown and Travis Cloke were all father sons.
Taylor Walker - NSW scholarship player (crows got very lucky there)
Pavilich - 4
Franklin - 5
Jack Riewoldt - 13
Nick Riewoldt - 1
Josh Kennedy - 4
Roughead - 2

Petrie is the only good KPF picked up outside the first round and that was back in 2001 when drafting was not so heavily focused on. All the decent young KPP look like coming from early draft picks, other than Sam Reid who was a steal in the third round.

So if we want a very good young KPF prospect I think it would be best to look at using our first pick on one, if there was a player worthy of that pick.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Sorry to butt in here, but how exactly have we been hurt by the "go-home" factor?

Stevens?

 

[Grimreepah]

You can absolutey trade rookies now. Both Mumford and Jenkins were traded off their club's rookie lists.

I remember this rule changed three or so years ago, but the stipulation is that the rookie has to go onto a senior list (ie. can't go from one club's rookie list to another club's rookie list).

 

[PattyKwasagun]

O'Rourke?

If it's not Viney, I'm pretty sure #2 will be Toumpas Patty. The guy is class.

Taking nothing away from O'Rourke of course.

I know you're right, I just don't want to admit it to myself.

To be honest, I'm becoming less and less enthused about what will be available at pick 8. There's a lot of great talent there, but it seems anything you'd be ecstatic with at 8 (the top, top talent) will be gone after the first 5 or 6 picks, and then the group after that could slot in any order up until about pick 20. Just my read of it.

 

[PTizzle]

I know you're right, I just don't want to admit it to myself.

To be honest, I'm becoming less and less enthused about what will be available at pick 8. There's a lot of great talent there, but it seems anything you'd be ecstatic with at 8 (the top, top talent) will be gone after the first 5 or 6 picks, and then the group after that could slot in any order up until about pick 20. Just my read of it.

It is feeling a bit like that. We'd wanna nail it and I have faith.

 

[Hellgood]

Stevens?

Yeah true, but he's about the only one and I suspect it was more wanting to play for "big club" who were making grand finals at the time while we were choking away in the early finals!

He was so homesick he only nominated one club and whilst in hindsight what Collingwood offered in Heath Scotland would have been a pretty good deal, but at the time he was not that highly rated, we told Stevens not to let the door hi hi on the way out and he ended up in the PSD going to the abysmal Carlton side of that era whilst we won the flag the next season.

In a similar way to you Lions fans recall the Buckley "leaving for premierships" thing with pride, we Port fans love thed the way this story turned out.

 

[Quigley]

I think Jaksch will go before Shaw, he is also a fantastic contested mark. I think Pick 8 will be a bit high unless he has a great Draft Camp ... even then

Offsider see if you can get some vision of Liam Flaherty. Just quietly I like him a lot and he is one who is every chance to fly under the radar. NSW KPF - Taylor Walker mark II (onfield hopefully not as stupid).

 

[POBT]

I know you're right, I just don't want to admit it to myself.

To be honest, I'm becoming less and less enthused about what will be available at pick 8. There's a lot of great talent there, but it seems anything you'd be ecstatic with at 8 (the top, top talent) will be gone after the first 5 or 6 picks, and then the group after that could slot in any order up until about pick 20. Just my read of it.

To be honest, that's been the case for the last couple of years, I reckon. I certainly felt it last year.

In the lead up to the draft, once you get outside the top 5, most players appear to either be "jack of all trades, master of none" types or have one or two weaknesess to offset their talent. As a result, people with less than elite draft picks seem to get less enthused because they realise that the prospects are limited of picking someone who will be a rolled gold champion. That is, until it becomes clear who their club is likely to take, at which point they start to convince themselves that they've got a champion on their hands!!!

The good news is, as drafting science has improved, I reckon the "miss" rate has declined. So even if you are unlikely to get the next Wayne Carey with pick 8, you are also less likely to get the next Llayne Spaanderman. Whilst draft position is no guarantee of success, I think there is a reasonable expectation that, at least, you'll get a very good player with a top 10 pick. Anything less is poor drafting. To look at 2008 as an example, every single player in the top 10 looks like being a "very good" player, at the least. I'd probably say the same about 2009 although there's a bit more doubt there (and it was a draft tainted by GC concessions).

I would also say that it is worth focusing on the strengths rather than the weaknesses. Unless something is unlikely to be resolved (eg if you are a 174cm full forward!), then chances are that clubs can fix up the weaknesses given time. I reckon we casual draft observers get a bit too caught up on the weaknesses. Clay Smith's kicking was a good example last year where a club backed itself to fix the weakness because the strengths were too good to ignore.

 

[Quigley]

Clay Smith's kicking still looked terrible this year and I still think it was a poor selection by the WB.

 

[dlanod]

Offsider see if you can get some vision of Liam Flaherty. Just quietly I like him a lot and he is one who is every chance to fly under the radar. NSW KPF - Taylor Walker mark II (onfield hopefully not as stupid).

Is Liam Flaherty the guy that kicked a couple of goals early against Vic Country? If so, he looked good then and I promptly saw no more of him.