2012 Draft Discussion

[chopperduck]

175 isn't as bad, but the height is still something you need to watch. Whilst the height for a single player isn't a big deal, if the rest of your midfield are all short, then you can put yourself in a spot of bother.

 

[Offsider]

It will be interesting to see where Nathan Hrovat lands, there have been some shorter guys go early recently, with both Devon Smith and Dion Prestia. Both these players were better rounded prospects and much better athletes imo (also Dion Prestia is very strong for his size), I think for a short player to be drafted early they need to not only have an exceptionally good game but also be quite quick and agile, it is why we are likely to see Ben Kennedy go somewhere in the first round. Shortish inside ball winners who are not great athletes have been able to be drafted quite late, like Alex Woodward and Lachie Neale last year who didn't have as the same form or hadn't shown as much as Hrovat but had a similar skill set. Given the fact he is slightly better than these prospects yet does not have any elite qualities other than his ability to find the ball and win it in close then he could slide especially as there is a perception in the AFL that bigger bodies are needed to succeed as an inside mid.

Although if he has grown to 176cm and the recruiters think he could potentially grow a bit taller and fill out then he has the ability to jump higher up the order. I rate him around the pick 20 - 35 region, he could prove to be a steal but he could also amount to nothing given his size and doubts over his ability to step up to the bigger bodied AFL.

 

[blueiris]

Size doesn't worry me, some of the greatest midfielders have been quite small Peter Bell and Brent Harvey are two that come to mind. I wouldn't mind picking up Horvat if we draft him.

 

[Offsider]

Size doesn't worry me, some of the greatest midfielders have been quite small Peter Bell and Brent Harvey are two that come to mind. I wouldn't mind picking up Horvat if we draft him.

Both are/were very quick and agile, both were elite at finding the ball on the outside and both had great disposal. Although Peter Bell was a good inside player, I wouldn't say he was great and I wouldn't say that Brent Harvey is a great inside player. Hrovat lacks this game breaking ability, and his ability to win clearances is his main strength, yet he has neither the agility or speed of Bell or Harvey which makes him a bit of a risk due to body size. Ben Kennedy is more comparable to these two given his ability to run and carry, his great speed and goal sense as well as his sweet left foot. Hrovat could turn out to be a good player but he is a risk given his playing style and body size.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Both are/were very quick and agile, both were elite at finding the ball on the outside and both had great disposal. Although Peter Bell was a good inside player, I wouldn't say he was great and I wouldn't say that Brent Harvey is a great inside player. Hrovat lacks this game breaking ability, and his ability to win clearances is his main strength, yet he has neither the agility or speed of Bell or Harvey which makes him a bit of a risk due to body size. Ben Kennedy is more comparable to these two given his ability to run and carry, his great speed and goal sense as well as his sweet left foot. Hrovat could turn out to be a good player but he is a risk given his playing style and body size.

I see Phelan rates both Hrovat and Kennedy in his top 20 and whereas Hrovat has had a bit of coverage I hadn't heard of Kennedy until then. His stats read pretty well. Is he as quick or quicker than Zorko, for example?

 

[pulpdriver]

I see Phelan rates both Hrovat and Kennedy in his top 20 and whereas Hrovat has had a bit of coverage I hadn't heard of Kennedy until then. His stats read pretty well. Is he as quick or quicker than Zorko, for example?

I really like Kennedy. Pace seems similar to Zorko (Quigley and Offsider would know the facts) and seems to have Zorko's propensity for tackling; seems pretty good around the stoppages and dangerous around goal (Zorko 2.0?). I'd imagine his height would scare off a few recruiters but I think he'd be a good pick up for us. Would give us the ability to rotate Zorko and Green through the midfield and still keep a dangerous small target around goals.

 

[Offsider]

Kennedy has received a fair bit of coverage for the past 2 years, he was very good as a bottom aged player in the 2011 U18 Champs, then went back too Glenelg and played some senior games at a very high quality. This year his U18 Champs were very good, he racked up some big numbers, he won clearances, received it on the outside and used it well. He has a very well rounded game, he is good on the inside and outside, use the ball well, kicks goals and can go forward and play as a crumber to great effect.

If he was 10cm taller he would be top 5, but at 174cm there are question marks over him due to his size. I personally think he will go in the early teens but could go slightly earlier to a team in need of some speed and class. His size lets him down, but if given a choice between Hrovat and Kennedy I would take Kennedy every day of the week. He finds more of the ball, uses it much better, kicks more goals and is faster and more nimble. He is possibly in the frame for pick 8 but that might be a bit of a reach.

Also I think that for those suggesting Mason Shaw at Pick 8, he is more likely to be picked up with our second round pick. I think that his best footy has been played on lesser opponents and in the ruck. His dominance at WAFL colts can be imo attributed to the fact that he is a bit taller and stronger than most other defenders. He does have talent and is well worth a pick in the late first to early second round but is not the best KPF in the draft not even close. It wouldn't surprise me if recruiters have now started to maybe rate Tim O'Brien as a better prospect (as well as Jaksch).

Edit: On Ben Kennedy's pace, I am not sure how he tested but he would run a sub 3 second 20m imo and his agility is also excellent.

 

[13Beast]

Hrovat is 173cm tall and that makes a big difference at AFL level. He will get picked but not anywhere near where Greene went. Greene is much the better runner than Hrovat and better mark (Hrovat is okay but is 173cm). Greene is cleaner inside and gets open much much more easily on the outside. Hrovat is pretty good at burrowing into the clearances and winning them and is solid on the outside. His kicking is good whilst Greene's I would classify as average to below average.

Does that mean Hrovat would get a Quigley two thumbs up if drafted by the Lions? If so, where do you peg him getting selected?

Also, to make more Toby Greene/midfielders ready-made for AFL comparisons, what about Vlastuin?

 

[Quigley]

I see Phelan rates both Hrovat and Kennedy in his top 20 and whereas Hrovat has had a bit of coverage I hadn't heard of Kennedy until then. His stats read pretty well. Is he as quick or quicker than Zorko, for example?

Think of a young version of Boomer Harvey. Similar type of small forward who can go into the midfield and do it very well. Smart player who can find the ball and has some class about him. If he were a bit taller he would be right in the mix in the top 10.

I certainly wouldn't have Hrovat in the top 20. 30-40 is probably more the range I am thinking atm. He is a nice player but there have been plenty of guys of his height who have dominated more at junior level but never gone anywhere at AFL level. Many of them were overlooked all together.

 

[pulpdriver]

@ Quigley and Offsider

You guys both doing a phantom draft this year? If so when were you aiming to have it up?

 

[Offsider]

@ Quigley and Offsider

You guys both doing a phantom draft this year? If so when were you aiming to have it up?

No I don't have time this year, I will post up my thoughts on rankings at some point on here though.

Quigley hopefully does do one. They are an excellent read and a great source of information.

 

[POBT]

. They are an excellent read and a great source of information.

Definitely. I am setting aside a few weeks to get through it. Fortunately, I'm a quick reader.

 

[Quigley]

I usually get mine up the week before the draft. I still haven't actually started writing my reviews yet. I pretty much have all my notes down just need to start getting them into a readable state. 60-70 pages takes a bit of time to get together especially when I have a lot or work on atm.

I will throw out another guy who I like - Marvin Warrell. He is a similar type of player to Simpson who should go top 20. Elusive HFFer type. Probably not we will draft but I am liking him all the same.

 

[jjami15]

Also I think that for those suggesting Mason Shaw at Pick 8, he is more likely to be picked up with our second round pick. I think that his best footy has been played on lesser opponents and in the ruck. His dominance at WAFL colts can be imo attributed to the fact that he is a bit taller and stronger than most other defenders. He does have talent and is well worth a pick in the late first to early second round but is not the best KPF in the draft not even close. It wouldn't surprise me if recruiters have now started to maybe rate Tim O'Brien as a better prospect (as well as Jaksch).

When you watch the sample of O'Brien he has some very good attributes, quite athletic, good spring and good hands. When watching it Sam Reid comes to mind with the same spring and meeting the ball at it's highest point. Slim build helps the comparison as well.

 

[chopperduck]

I look forward to Quigley's draft every year, but also enjoy reading others. I'm someone who loves the draft, but i don't get to see the kids play, so i work entirely off what i hear and read. It's really good going into the draft knowing who the player is when they are read out.

 

[brenjay]

Notwithstanding our 'no d$$$khead policy', imagine if we took a punt on Jurrah. He'll be that perfect second or third forward and would make our forward line instantly more dangerous. I understand there are concerns over consistency, but whenever he played us, he tore us to shreds.

 

[Banana Boots]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-two-of-us-viney-and-wines-20121006-276ao.html

this is making me think that it's more and more likely Wines will be gone by our pick

 

[Banana Boots]

Plowman sounds exactly like the type of player that Kerr loves, tall with versatility including midfield potential. Would love for us to get home. Any one else got fingers crossed that he'll slide to us?

yep, I'd be happy with any of: Plowman,Wines,Mayes,Macrae and Jaksch at pick 8

 

[Bucking Beads]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-two-of-us-viney-and-wines-20121006-276ao.html

this is making me think that it's more and more likely Wines will be gone by our pick

I always thought that would be the case. We can still pick up a quality inside mid with our other picks though.

 

[spotthedog1]

What's the verdict on Stringer in here? Pre-legbreak, he was a top 3 certainty. In the last year, he's got back in, started to rebuild his conditioning, but hasn't quite regained his top yet, hence why he could slide through 8... I remember Vossy talking to Yow Yeh after his leg break, and basically telling him it'll be 2 years before he's his own self again, and he'll be playing with pain in the meanwhile. Stringer is 1 year down, playing pretty decently again, and by the end of next year, should be regaining his top form (hopefully). If anyone knows whether someone has the cojones to make it back to the top after a break, it's Vossy. I'd imagine that the Lions would've interviewed him, found out a bit about him, and with the recruiters already knowing what he's worth pre-injury, Vossy could give the Lions an edge to say 'yes, he should make it' or 'no, he hasn't got it'. Whatever call they make, you'd have to trust that our recruiters are in a pretty good position to judge...

 

[whatboutbob]

I'd just like to direct folks to the thread search function in the top right corner of the page. It is super easy to search this thread for a potential draftee's name to ascertain what has been written about them.

Expecting posters to re-hash their opinion just because you haven't searched comes across as lazy and sends the thread into a maddening circle.

 

[Clubbeta]

This is the same Scott Clouston we rookie drafted (2006) and then delisted a few years later, is it not?

If so, would redrafting him(as a previously delisted player) be a rare event in the AFL?

Just curious, that's all

Yeah would be rare but if we were going to go down that path it's Joel Tippett for me.

 

[Clubbeta]

What's the verdict on Stringer in here? Pre-legbreak, he was a top 3 certainty. In the last year, he's got back in, started to rebuild his conditioning, but hasn't quite regained his top yet, hence why he could slide through 8... I remember Vossy talking to Yow Yeh after his leg break, and basically telling him it'll be 2 years before he's his own self again, and he'll be playing with pain in the meanwhile. Stringer is 1 year down, playing pretty decently again, and by the end of next year, should be regaining his top form (hopefully). If anyone knows whether someone has the cojones to make it back to the top after a break, it's Vossy. I'd imagine that the Lions would've interviewed him, found out a bit about him, and with the recruiters already knowing what he's worth pre-injury, Vossy could give the Lions an edge to say 'yes, he should make it' or 'no, he hasn't got it'. Whatever call they make, you'd have to trust that our recruiters are in a pretty good position to judge...

I have really warmed to Stringer recently and think if we get him with pick 8 we will look back and say we got a bargain.

 

[stuyd1]

Still waiting to see if we will go for any zone selections this year. With Claye going to the GC, who would be the next likely canidates, and does anything think the club would look at any of them? We've shown we usually go down this path, however with academy kids coming next year, i'm no longer sure if we will pick up anyone this year.

Ive mentioned before on this site, Boston from Broadbeach is a gem. Just turned 18 this year, played for Broadbeach seniors after his Stingray commitments( 6 or 7 games) and performed extremely well ( kicked 5 goals in one of the games.)is 180 cm and about 76 kg, with a good natural physique that will develop with maturity. Is a beautiful kick of the footy and performed very well at the recent draft combine.A number of clubs have spoken to him and he should get drafted....would just like to see him remain in qld, hopefully with the Lions.
The Suns have plenty of this type on their list,( just like Zorko, and they let him go,.... and I know first hand they are spewing on this misjudgement).Beleive me, this kid is good and imo will make the elite level and be a pretty good performer.

 

[James Thomas]

No I definately meant Johnson. He is listed at 191 which is a height I still worry about nws it is the same height as Michael etc. Wyld did very well at the Champs in a KPD role but at 188 I would struggle to take him. Johnson similarly good defensively and I think better going forward. He moves nicely as well.

Wardle is very athletic and looks very good on the football field moving around the park. He was one of the keys to beating WA with his performance in the last with his effort. He was not as consistent throughout games though. He would be a good rookie prospect though as the flashes of talent he shows are impressive.

Johnson is supposedly new to the game. Played first games of afl at the u16 championships and wasn't out of place. Played a good season this year having standout games as a third tall against bendigo bombers in a tac cup trial match for qld and against wa where his opponent was jesse hogan (taken in mini draft this yr to melbourne). give this bloke another 2 - 3 years and see how he develops.