2012 Draft Discussion

[Quigley]

I was the bloke that was sitting over the other side on his lonesome in the first half of the Qld match so my perspective of the contests was probably a fair bit different. Conway was one I watched very closely including through the binoculars. He was on the bottom of most packs and when the ball was coming out Qld way he was more often than not the cause. Really encouraged by him especially given he is bottom aged.

On Bourke I agree that there is potential there. He worked hard, lead well and generally looked dangerous. Rodda held him well but Bourke was giving away a fair bit in strength that I think he will make up as he develops. His athleticism looked good.

 

[dlanod]

Ah, I saw the lone figure out there at the start and figured it was some nutter . I think the binoculars probably also helped - I couldn't tell you if someone was on the bottom of the pack dishing it out, only that I saw them go in. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing Conway run around with another year under his belt, even just off what I saw today.

 

[Quigley]

I am going down to Melb next week as well so hopefully get another chance to have a look at him and our other guys.

 

[jjami15]

Quigley, I saw that your mind might be directed to go for Hogan via the mini draft? What in particular did you see that you liked about him as a player rather than just saying Hogan over Shaw. I have seen that Chris 25 thinks that Shaw might be a player who kicks 6 then go missing the next week. I understand it's early days of the nationals but am interested in what stood out for Hogan: work rate, below the knees, one grab, bring other players into the game, presence, just as a guide. I sometimes think that people can see one of two acts and start salivating but I'm more interested to see how they hold themselves out on the field and the like.

 

[acuguy]

How did Coleman-Broome go?

 

[Quigley]

Coleman-Broome copped a heavy knock very early in the game and I didn't notice him much after that. I think he might have been a sick boy and might have been taken off with a concussion.

Hogan has good size and gets around the park exceptionally well. His stretch marking was great and he lead to really good spots. He created separation and he worked hard. His goal kicking also looked composed and solid. I really didn't notice too many holes in his game apart from getting a bit tired which was to be expected given his level of development. As a bottom ager he was exceptional. There is massive potential with him. I certainly like him more than I did Patton last year and Watts a few years ago and both those guys went number 1.

 

[whatboutbob]

QLD vs WA match report

 

[jjami15]

Coleman-Broome copped a heavy knock very early in the game and I didn't notice him much after that. I think he might have been a sick boy and might have been taken off with a concussion.

Hogan has good size and gets around the park exceptionally well. His stretch marking was great and he lead to really good spots. He created separation and he worked hard. His goal kicking also looked composed and solid. I really didn't notice too many holes in his game apart from getting a bit tired which was to be expected given his level of development. As a bottom ager he was exceptional. There is massive potential with him. I certainly like him more than I did Patton last year and Watts a few years ago and both those guys went number 1.

Thanks very much for that. Have been reading a fair bit about Hogan in a number of other forums and the like and no-one has found any real fault. Did read that they were thinking of playing him as a 16year old last year in the u/18 nationals. More and more am hoping that we make a play for him.

 

[PattyKwasagun]

He was billed as Qlds number 1 player so winning without him and Cameron their number 1 forward option was impressive.

Is Clay injured? Talked up big time last year and early this year, but have heard very little about how he's going on field this season at all.

 

[footymaad]

Cameron injured - not played at all since back from AIS trip, and apparently not doing much training yet either. Not sure when likely will be back.

On yesterday's game, Coleman-Broome concussed in first quarter and off after - wasn't even sitting on bench in second half. Boston also must have been injured early - spent most of game on bench with physio working on ?his hip. Came on a couple times for few minutes but could hardly run. And according to ALFQ website report must have been another player injured early as well. So Qld essentially 2 of their better players down from early in game, which make their effort to come back at end of game even more creditable, esp as they had been run over in second half in their couple of TAC cup warmup games.

Re Shaw, agree didn't show much yesterday, although I guess conditions weren't ideal for tall forwards. Also worth noting that as although as you point out his opponent was giving away a fair height advantage, Wyld is probably Qld's best defender and as such often plays on taller opponents and was no doubt specifically given the job on Shaw yesterday. It was his first game back after few weeks off with injury, hence the cramping in the second half, but still ran out the game and took a couple of key defensive marks late in game. Must have done the job the coaches wanted him to as named in best players, although to be fair the old "team effort" wouldn't have been inappropriate yesterday.

 

[jjami15]

5. Brisbane - Sam Mayes (187cm midfielder - North Adelaide)
23. Brisbane - Aidan Corr (194cm defender - Northern Knights)
27. Brisbane - Marco Paparone (193cm forward - East Fremantle)

Chris 25 has do e an early mock and has us taking these players, thoughts?

 

[whatboutbob]

As I mentioned on chris25's thread, I think he's got the blend pretty right as far as our needs are concerned.

Haven't seen the last two play, but I really like Mayes as a player and as a fit in our team. My early fave (wait two weeks).

 

[Mayestro]

5. Brisbane - Sam Mayes (187cm midfielder - North Adelaide)
23. Brisbane - Aidan Corr (194cm defender - Northern Knights)
27. Brisbane - Marco Paparone (193cm forward - East Fremantle)

Chris 25 has do e an early mock and has us taking these players, thoughts?

Just a few weeks ago I was definitely on board the Shaw KPF bandwagon for our first pick, but with Lisle, Acorn and particularly Retzlaff really coming on recently I'd have to say that's a pretty good spread, not that I know that much about the players named above themselves. Being able to recruit another top line mid rather than having to use it on a KPF when we're this low on the ladder will make a massive difference to our engine room in future years.

Also a top 30 KPD to complement the developing Clarke/McKeever, and another (potentially) decent KPF as insurance- looks pretty reasonable.

 

[jjami15]

The jungle drums about Hogan are quite impressive and if we were to have pick 5 in the draft I think this would get us across the line for dibs at him in the mini draft. Not sold on our current young KPF at all. Understand they're young but have seen anything to state that they're going to top shelf. Firm believer that we need a KPD, maybe one maybe two.

 

[POBT]

I've said before that using your top draft pick to access the mini-draft is a big risk IMO. This is particularly true for a tall forward where there is still so much growing to do between the age of 17 and 18.

Put it this way - there's every chance that we'll have the choice of taking the highest rated tall player in the draft with pick 5. There would need to be a significant gap between Hogan and the best 2012 eligible tall. In other words, the tall stocks this year would need to be really ordinary - or, Hogan will be an absolute monty for a top 3 pick next year - to warrant us trading pick 5 for a spot in the mini-draft.

If we a desperate for a quality tall and there isn't one available in our rough top 10 and we're massively into Hogan, then you'd consider it. But it makes me nervous to select a bloke who is up to a year younger than the other options.

 

[Quigley]

Mayes against Tas named on the wing and had 27 touches to go with 1 goal 4 behinds. He is usually a good shot for goal so I am calling the inaccuracy an aberation. I have been a massive fan of his for a while so if we ended up with him I would be very happy. Didak is the guy I still think of with him.

Given our team I would still look at Hogan though. The risk is there sure but he is a class above the other forward prospects available and he is a year younger to boot. He is not physcially overpowering them he is just doing it with workrate and smarts mostly. Physically he looks great and he is a footballer. Hard to pass up that type when we really need a KPF.

 

[dlanod]

POBT - I think a win-win (and hopefully the way it flushes out) is that someone will pay through the nose for Jack Martin. We can then pick up Hogan with the second mini-draft pick, but I do think it'll still be first round pick plus to get the pick. But since seeing them both last week, I'd much much much rather hopping on that bandwagon than picking Shaw with pick 5 (or whatever).

 

[POBT]

I'm not against it. But there needs to be appropriate recognition of the risk and the fact that the highly regarded 17yo doesn't always turn out to be the best player a year later. IMO, it is easy to pump up these guys who aren't draft eligible.

I have been keen on getting a tall forward with our first pick for a while but I'd be happy with someone like Mayes if the tall stocks aren't that good. Mayes seems to fit a need for us.

 

[whatboutbob]

There's a fair bit of water to go under the bridge this year. Who knows? Retzy and Ace could end up killing it.

A few things on Hogan:

I haven't see him, so don't currently have a preference.
If he is genuinely as good as the hype though, and significantly better than the best KPF available this year, then I'd be inclined to make a play for him.
An outside mid/fwd should take less time to develop anyway, so we could take another with our first pick next year, and it is not a type of which we're totally bereft.
I can't see GWS, GC or Port taking him, while Melb would be a long shot.
If the Bulldogs finish below us, then one would think they'll be in the box seat to take him with one of their two picks.
We play Bulldogs (for the 2nd time) in Rd 22. It is a long way off, but could that become 'The Hogan Cup'?

 

[BuntonRules]

We play Bulldogs (for the 2nd time) in Rd 22. It is a long way off, but could that become 'The Hogan Cup'?

Carlton lost the Kreuzer cup

 

[whatboutbob]

Stats for the WA vs QLD U18 game

I wonder what odds we are to take any academy kids this year?

 

[BigCat2]

Just on some Lions academy prospects for next year:
Listed is height, weight (and in brackets weight 12 months earlier)
These figures from the U18 Champs & U16 Champs (last year).

Isaac Conway 181cm, 82kg (76)
Cain Tickner 193cm, 89!!kg (73)
Sam Gribble 179cm, 78kg (71)
Aden Rutledge 190cm, 83kg (80)
Jackson Gray 201cm, 80kg (77)

Looks like the top 3 guys are quite physically ready to go, size wise. Tickner particularly looks like he's bulked up massively. Sounds like from game reports over the weekend he still looks very athletic, certainly promising.

Also,
Jesse Hogan, DOB 12/2/1995, 193cm, 91kg
And 12 months ago, he was listed at 191cm and 95?!kg
So he's grown taller. Not sure what's going on with the weight - carried puppy fat before?

I agree we are a top-notch KPF prospect short. It already looks like Karnezis can play all over the park. Retzlaff has potential as a wide roaming CHF. Cornelius looks like a good deep alternate marking target at the moment. Lisle has flexibility but he's no guarantee to better than serviceable.

I think we're still at the stage where we have holes everywhere on our list (apart from ruckmen, and maybe inside midfield options - but still won't say no to a good midfielder) so we should go best available. Key positions though take longer to develop and there are fewer of them, so if there's a chance to take good one, I would do it.

 

[BigCat2]

Stats for the WA vs QLD U18 game

I wonder what odds we are to take any academy kids this year?

Sounds like Ives, Wallin, Coleman-Broome, Cameron and Bourke at least are draftable prospects. Not sure which ones Gold Coast would want, but we can work out a trade with them for those we want, similar to Zorko last year.

Of those who aren't taken in the main draft, we can priority-list them as Qld zone rookies, alternating picks with Gold Coast. I think it might be their turn to pick first this year.

 

[dlanod]

Stats for the WA vs QLD U18 game

I wonder what odds we are to take any academy kids this year?

The first bunch of academy kids come through next year, so low.

 

[jjami15]

Just on some Lions academy prospects for next year:
Listed is height, weight (and in brackets weight 12 months earlier)
These figures from the U18 Champs & U16 Champs (last year).

Isaac Conway 181cm, 82kg (76)
Cain Tickner 193cm, 89!!kg (73)
Sam Gribble 179cm, 78kg (71)
Aden Rutledge 190cm, 83kg (80)
Jackson Gray 201cm, 80kg (77)

Looks like the top 3 guys are quite physically ready to go, size wise. Tickner particularly looks like he's bulked up massively. Sounds like from game reports over the weekend he still looks very athletic, certainly promising.

Also,
Jesse Hogan, DOB 12/2/1995, 193cm, 91kg
And 12 months ago, he was listed at 191cm and 95?!kg
So he's grown taller. Not sure what's going on with the weight - carried puppy fat before?

I agree we are a top-notch KPF prospect short. It already looks like Karnezis can play all over the park. Retzlaff has potential as a wide roaming CHF. Cornelius looks like a good deep alternate marking target at the moment. Lisle has flexibility but he's no guarantee to better than serviceable.

I think we're still at the stage where we have holes everywhere on our list (apart from ruckmen, and maybe inside midfield options - but still won't say no to a good midfielder) so we should go best available. Key positions though take longer to develop and there are fewer of them, so if there's a chance to take good one, I would do it.

I am curious as to how it works with being able to have access to these lads. Isaac Conway 181cm, 82kg (76)
Cain Tickner 193cm, 89!!kg (73) both sound like good prospects. Do we use draft picks or do they go onto our rookie list and are only able to pick one or more? I really do like the idea of having homegrown talent in our team. Just removes the go home factor.

In regards to Hogan it would obviously be a very educated choice to make a play for him on our part. If we were to end up with 5th pick I could see this getting it done especially if GC accessed O'Meara with pick 4.