2012 Draft Discussion

[Offsider]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but, is this draft as good as previously suggested? and if not, how many list changes can you see us making?

I think the draft is a bit better than normal but not much difference to normal years. It is strong for mids and KPD not KPF prospects. In someways it is a bit layered, ie a clear no. 1 propsect, then about 5 or 6 under that. Then 10 prospects after that similarly talented, then 20-30 prospects who look like they have a fair bit of talent, after that it gets a bit more speculative.

 

[Quigley]

I was asked on the trades thread about KPDs who would be around when we picked in the second. Quite frankly there is a stack of them that I need to get to the bottom of but all of these I would give late first round to second round grades atm:

Lachlan Plowman - injury kept him out of the Champs. Probably the most highly regarded but also the shortest of this crop. Could struggle height wise at the next level as a KP. Might be more of a third tall.

Kristian Jaksch - might be more of a forward atm but could be worth taking as a swing man.

Liam McBean - this guy intrigues me know. I went in expecting to be underwhelmed but he surprised me. Over 200cm but moves very well with good skills. Played very well as a CHB and that is intriguing given that a KP/2nd Ruck is needed by a lot of teams including us. He also has the height to cover the proponderance of massive forwards we are seeing atm. Very thin atm and will a couple of offseasons to build up. Reminds me a lot of Keefe from Collingwood.

Nick Rodda - impressed me when I saw him in the flesh. Controlled the back very well defensively and is improving going the other way. Howson will get more attention but Rodda could end up being better.

Alex Howson - can play at both ends and moves nicely.

Tom Clurey - tends to blend into the background and just goes about doing his job with the minimum of fuss. Solid skills.

Aiden Corr - hasn't quite put it all together but can get out and run around and impress the scouts with his mobility. He is the type who could finish the TAC and be a big riser come draft day.

Tanner Smith - old fashioned shut down KPD who might not give you much offensively but will take the opposition's best forward out of the game.

 

[Offsider]

Personally I think that Tanner Smith is the best shut down defender available, he is disciplined and has a good athletic base. But his defensive rebound is pretty average, but this is probably more able to be taught than the defensive side of the game (ie look at James Frawley at Melbourne came to the club with not much offensive game yet now has a good blend of offence and defence). I think McBean is good and I could see him being a good CHB who marks a lot from opposition kicks. I would strongly consider both these players at our compo pick or second rounder.

 

[theteamtobeat]

Mids
1. Lachie Whitfield, Dandenong Stingrays, 18 July 1994, 184cm, 74kg
2. Jack Martin, Claremont, 29 January 1995, 184cm, 64kg
3. Jimmy Toumpas, Woodville-West Torrens, 2 January 1994, 183cm, 77kg
4. Oliver Wines, Bendigo Pioneers, 7 October 1994, 185cm, 83kg
5. Dayle Garlett, Swan Districts, 9 January 1994, 180cm, 75kg
6. Jack Viney, Oakleigh Chargers, 13 April 1994, 178cm, 80kg
7. Nathan Hrovat, Northern Knights, 7 June 1994, 174cm, 76kg
8. Nick Vlastuin, Northern Knights, 19 April 1994, 187cm, 83kg
9. Josh Simpson, East Fremantle, 9 February 1994, 183cm, 72kg
10. Jed Anderson, Darwin FC, 16 February 1994, 178cm, 75kg
11. Jesse Lonergan, Launceston FC, 14 November 1994, 183cm, 86kg
KPF:
1. Joe Daniher, Calder Cannons, 4 March 1994, 201cm, 89kg
2. Jesse Hogan, Claremont, 12 February 1995, 193cm, 91kg
3. Kristian Jaksch, Oakleigh Chargers, 7 October 1994, 194cm, 85kg
KPB:
1. Lachlan Plowman, Calder Cannons, 11 September 1994, 191cm, 86kg
Ruck:
1. Brodie Grundy, Sturt, 15 April 1994, 202cm, 100kg
HF:
1. Troy Menzel, Central Districts, 22 September 1994, 186cm, 77kg
2. Ben Kennedy, Glenelg, 3 March 1994, 174cm, 76kg
3. Sam Mayes, North Adelaide, 20 May 1994, 187cm, 78kg
4. Jake Stringer, Bendigo Pioneers, 25 April 1994, 191cm, 91kg
5. Taylor Garner, Dandenong Stingrays, 8 Jan 94, 186cm, 77kg
6. Jackson Macrae, Oakleigh Chargers, 3 August 1994, 188cm, 75kg
7. Tim Membrey, Gippsland Power, 26 May 1994, 188cm, 87kg
HB:
2. Sam Colquhoun, Central Districts, 20 December 1994, 179cm, 72kg

 

[theteamtobeat]

What do we need with our first, second and thrid pick? (Ex frist pick-mid, etc)

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Quigley, Offsider, irel - what are your views on Jack Martin?

 

[BigCat2]

How about Jesse Wallin? Have heard him mentioned a few times.

 

[Offsider]

Quigley, Offsider, irel - what are your views on Jack Martin?

He has ridiculous talent, more upside/potential than anyone in this draft. Will he reach it is the question, and I think he will go pretty dam close. He pushed Whitfield for the Larke Medal and was WA's best as an underage player despite being on of the lightest players in his team. He is a midfielder who can go forward and is super dangerous in both spots and is a real game changer. He is very dangerous on the outside and can run and carry with the footy, but his inside work is just as good, he can find the ball well and moves nicely through traffic. Up forward, he is great overhead, and can is really dangerous as a crumber so is of capable 2-3 goals a game resting forward as well as 20+ disposals. Very good speed, agility, also an excellent leap and great overhead mark, just a super athlete, looks to have reasonable endurance and work rate isn't an issue, but endurance will improve imo and he will be even harder to stop. Also he runs and chases hard and does all the defensive things in the game, although this could improve slightly. Issue is with his body size, he is quite skinny and will take time to put on weight, but once he does he will be dangerous, still in the meantime he will be a super medium sized forward prospect. Also I have heard that his dad is an issue, but not sure if this is true.

Someone will trade a high pick/good player for the first pick in the mini-draft, which should be him. I think he has a bit more talent and is a better prospect than Hogan who should be the second pick. I would trade up to get him into our team, but I think that the Doggies could potentially trade for him.

 

[Offsider]

How about Jesse Wallin? Have heard him mentioned a few times.

He is probably more of a rookie option, looks to have good athletic qualities and as a defender sticks to his task well. Skills need improving and he needs to work on his rebound and use his speed more. But there is talent there and he is capable and did some nice things in the champs, yet had some average games, and drifted out of games a fair bit. Still he is has the athletic ability to be a decent small defender, most likely a rookie, also he is 19 this year but missed 2011 with injury.

 

[BigCat2]

Thanks for insight Offsider. Hopefully with the Academy program in place, it gives us the chance to see a lot of draft prospects up close, so we'll be able to pick some gems with late picks / rookie draft.

 

[thoselionslads]

The only thing that I am unsure of with Cameron is what position he will end up playing. He has played most of his games as either a tall forward or CHB, and at 190cm is he a little short to play as a KPF at AFL level? I think that this is the case. I see Cameron as a third tall/medium sized player who is strong on the lead but also somewhat decent at ground level, somewhat similar to Jack Darling (not on the same level with junior careers however). I really like him as a prospect and would like to see him at Brisbane, but where do people see him playing??

Think he is a smidgen taller than that. If not, he plays taller. I would be suprised if he doesnt grow as well. His greatest asset is his athletic prowess and sticky hands. Probably plays his best footy inside the F50 but he certainly has the aerobic capacity to play high roaming role. In terms of playing style, I would liken him to Gunstan atm with a view to him developing into a gut runner with good hands - Riewoldtish in style.

 

[Offsider]

Thanks for insight Offsider. Hopefully with the Academy program in place, it gives us the chance to see a lot of draft prospects up close, so we'll be able to pick some gems with late picks / rookie draft.

Hopefully it also gives us access to the truly elite QLD prospects, I wouldn't mind a Nick Riewoldt or even David Armitage. I think that Wallin is past the Academy stage at 19 and is probably a long shot to be rookied at this stage however, but potential is there and a couple of years in the NEAFL could help him develop.

 

[Offsider]

Think he is a smidgen taller than that. If not, he plays taller. I would be suprised if he doesnt grow as well. His greatest asset is his athletic prowess and sticky hands. Probably plays his best footy inside the F50 but he certainly has the aerobic capacity to play high roaming role. In terms of playing style, I would liken him to Gunstan atm

Definitely would not say no to a Gunstan type at all. I think he plays a bit taller as he has a good vertical leap, but I would hope he grows another 5cm and turns into a dominant KPF. Also he does need to put on a bit of weight, but the potential is there he will take some time to develop however.

 

[theteamtobeat]

He has ridiculous talent, more upside/potential than anyone in this draft. Will he reach it is the question, and I think he will go pretty dam close. He pushed Whitfield for the Larke Medal and was WA's best as an underage player despite being on of the lightest players in his team. He is a midfielder who can go forward and is super dangerous in both spots and is a real game changer. He is very dangerous on the outside and can run and carry with the footy, but his inside work is just as good, he can find the ball well and moves nicely through traffic. Up forward, he is great overhead, and can is really dangerous as a crumber so is of capable 2-3 goals a game resting forward as well as 20+ disposals. Very good speed, agility, also an excellent leap and great overhead mark, just a super athlete, looks to have reasonable endurance and work rate isn't an issue, but endurance will improve imo and he will be even harder to stop. Also he runs and chases hard and does all the defensive things in the game, although this could improve slightly. Issue is with his body size, he is quite skinny and will take time to put on weight, but once he does he will be dangerous, still in the meantime he will be a super medium sized forward prospect. Also I have heard that his dad is an issue, but not sure if this is true.

Someone will trade a high pick/good player for the first pick in the mini-draft, which should be him. I think he has a bit more talent and is a better prospect than Hogan who should be the second pick. I would trade up to get him into our team, but I think that the Doggies could potentially trade for him.

The more reason the club should try and get Hogan. Hogan is the best KPF and the perfect replacement for Brown (long term) if we fail to get Tippurt.

 

[borrat]

The more reason the club should try and get Hogan. Hogan is the best KPF and the perfect replacement for Brown (long term) if we fail to get Tippurt.

agreed hopefully pick 6 or whatever brisbanes first pick will be enough

 

[Hollow Knight]

The more reason the club should try and get Hogan. Hogan is the best KPF and the perfect replacement for Brown (long term) if we fail to get Tippurt.

Tippett.

 

[dlanod]

Tippett.

Tippurt makes it sound like he needs some of that nasal spray they were advertising everywhere a few years back.

 

[POBT]

I think the draft is a bit better than normal but not much difference to normal years. It is strong for mids and KPD not KPF prospects. In someways it is a bit layered, ie a clear no. 1 propsect, then about 5 or 6 under that. Then 10 prospects after that similarly talented, then 20-30 prospects who look like they have a fair bit of talent, after that it gets a bit more speculative.

Someone said to me that if you took out the father-son rule (ie Daniher, Viney could fall to whoever) and added in the two players taken in the mini-draft last year, that is would be a very high quality first round draft. Based on my limited knowledge, I tend to agree - O'Meara would be an outstanding get at the top, Crouch would be likely top 5-8 and Daniher would be a tempting option for almost every club with a high draft pick. The knock on effect of that would then be that the likes of Toumpas could slip to the 6-10 range and guys like Shaw could suddenly become late first round picks rather than slightly risky mid-round prospects.
In other words, as a cohort, this is a strong group at the top end of the draft. It is just that the vagaries of the draft rules and concessions to new clubs have diluted the quality of the players available for those with picks around the 10-20 mark - hence the slightly early drop off in quality.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Tippurt makes it sound like he needs some of that nasal spray they were advertising everywhere a few years back.

Tippurt sounds like a new kids yoghurt.

 

[jjami15]

It seems to me that there is a bit of a general concensus to make a play for Hogan as it would fulfill an area of need. I feel we'll end up with pick 8 without any possible further PP or CP being added into the mix. Will this get it done? I'm not too sure possibly our CP in the early twenties as well or player, I would hope just first round and player possibly Adcock. Feel we have some depth in his position now. Just curious as to others thoughts on what would be needed. Also if we were to make a play and attain Hogan then what type of player would we target in second and third round. I believe KPP should be focused on in these areas. J Clarke and S Michael are developing rookies for KPD but feel that two more to add into the mix would be quite handy. Going down this path would hopefully alleviate this problem and in next year or two draft we can focus on skill and speed.

 

[Caiphus]

Have any of the KPDs that weren't picked up last draft overcome their perceived limitations to be viewed as potentially decent over-age pickups?

 

[POBT]

It seems to me that there is a bit of a general concensus to make a play for Hogan as it would fulfill an area of need. I feel we'll end up with pick 8 without any possible further PP or CP being added into the mix. Will this get it done?

It is a competitive bidding process so I guess it depends on what other clubs are willing to bid. Adelaide offered pick 10 plus a future compo pick and got mini-draft pick 2 and Luke Brown. So they lost two players and gained 2 players.

Taking that as a baseline, I reckon something like this might get the job done:

Pick 8 + Compo pick (23) for Mini-Draft Pick plus GWS 3rd rounder (43)

GWS would then have 3 picks in the first 25.

We'd then have pick 31, 43 and 49 in the draft plus we'd get Hogan or Martin. Effectively, we'd lose our first pick and downgrade another by 20 spots.

The talk is that GWS may not want picks but I don't know if we've got a huge amount to offer them in terms of established players.

 

[theteamtobeat]

Maybe someone like a Jordan Lisle and James Polkinghorne might be an interest to them. Longer is that ruc/forward prospect for us long term and there's Staker, Merrett and Retzlaff who can play that type of role long and short term.

 

[Haso]

Maybe someone like a Jordan Lisle and James Polkinghorne might be an interest to them. Longer is that ruc/forward prospect for us long term and there's Staker, Merrett and Retzlaff who can play that type of role long and short term.

I think Merrett is a backman, long term. His role up forward in future will depend strongly on injuries, I think.

I don't see the club trading Lisle away just yet before he has played a senior game, having taken him from Hawthorn promising him senior opportunities.

I agree that Polks might be an option.

 

[Crusha]

Must be confused on Boston then. I've only seen him play once, and I must've been watching the wrong jumper number. Hate when that happens. I wonder who I was watching though, because he seemed like quite a good inside mid.

You must have been watching Conway....he was the stand out inside mid for Qld in the couple of games I've seen this year ..... (and acquitted himself well when playing for the Lions Reserves, as a HF - didn't look like a "Top Up" player, yet only 16 at the time).

The times I have seen Boston I have come away less than impressed.
He certainly has some skill, but didn't win his own ball too often ....tended to float around on the outside waiting for others to supply the pill. Maybe I'm too harsh on him - others may have seen him more often, and can advise that what I've seen is not the "norm".

Unlike "Bob", I came away from the Tassie game liking what I'd seen of Cameron. Granted he wasn't BOG, but, to me, he displayed the type of skills that you want to see in a potential "tall(ish)" draftee. I had been across a fair bit of the "hype" about him on here (which had included some doubters) and therefore watched him with a critical eye, not wanting to be influenced by what I'd read.
I would not be unhappy to see him on our list - at what "price" though, I am undecided.

Just for interest, I also made a note from the Tassie game of Jermaine Wardle (good size - 188, moved well, even spent a period in the Ruck), and likewise Michael Wyld (FB) - looked like potential "Qld Rookie" prospects.