2012 Draft Discussion

[whatboutbob]

Quigley just took Rodda as his 2nd pick in the phantom trial.

Quigs, do you rate Jaksch a better option than Rodda (though likely unavailable)?

 

[Quigley]

I probably would have taken Jaksch if he was there. I think Jaksch could well turn into a very good KPF and if we are honest that is our biggest need. Jaksch is also a pretty fair defender so he has the added attraction of being able to go back if needed.

McBean is the other guy who was right in the mix for me. Having a guy over 200cm who can legitimately play CHB has a fair bit of appeal in an AFL where the KPFs are getting taller all the time. He would also give us a good 2nd ruck option. McBean is still very underdeveloped but that did not really worry me. It was more about the attitute - does he want it enough? On the park he seems to lack a bit of competitive fire. I love the physical and skills package but if the desire is not there it will be hard to reach the undoubted potential.

 

[POBT]

I reckon Jaksch is a ripper.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I reckon Jaksch is a ripper.

He must surely be nicknamed "it" already...

 

[Hollow Knight]

It was more about the attitute - does he want it enough? On the park he seems to lack a bit of competitive fire. I love the physical and skills package but if the desire is not there it will be hard to reach the undoubted potential.

This description gave me a Cameron Wood vibe, and that is not a good thing.

 

[thoselionslads]

Fingers crossed we might get to see Cameron up against one of our listed players this weekend.

 

[borrat]

He must surely be nicknamed "it" already...

yep join the bandwagon

 

[thoselionslads]

Fingers crossed we might get to see Cameron up against one of our listed players this weekend.

That's a negative.

 

[crispy creme]

Quigs if you were not able to consider garlett due to indiscretions who would have been your selection?
Crispy given you have seen some live games who impressed you that will likely be available around our selection?

Bobby, obviously it all comes down to the needs of the club - on face value talls at either end and some outside pace would be desirable. But who knows, the club may think ottherwise. Realistic options around our first two picks that may suit our needs would have to include Jakcsch (Quigs and I differ a bit here as I see him more suited as a KPD who could go forward), Oliver Wines, Matthew Haynes & Aiden Corr - although their tends to be two schools of thoughts on both of them in relation to their footballing talents. If we went with two mids with our first picks, which I don't think we would, I would be extremely happy with the Calder boy o'Rourke and Rory Atkins, who seems to have fallen from grace with many. I keep hearing good things about Jack Macrae but haven't watched him enough to say much more. In an ideal world, I would give up first pick and a player or two for the young fella Martin from WA. On my limited viewings of him he seems to have the potential to be an absolute superstar. That's the best thing about forums such as this, we can all play list manager and not have to deal with the fallout of a bad choice!

 

[whatboutbob]

Quigs took Paparone with his 3rd pick in the phantom trial, meaning he's now taken a mid (Garlett), KPD (Rodda) and a KPF.

 

[crispy creme]

One from out my way at Dandenong that played for VC against VM, and is the big body that we seem to need is Jake Calvert. Can't say I've seen much of him but a few on these boards seem pretty keen. Has anyone seen much of him or know much about him? The only query I have from that performance at Geelong, was the lack of competition on most occasions from his direct opponent.

 

[Offsider]

One from out my way at Dandenong that played for VC against VM, and is the big body that we seem to need is Jake Calvert. Can't say I've seen much of him but a few on these boards seem pretty keen. Has anyone seen much of him or know much about him? The only query I have from that performance at Geelong, was the lack of competition on most occasions from his direct opponent.

I would not touch Calvert even in the rookie draft. He missed out last year and hasn't improved at all. He looks slowish npt a great mark rushed and struggles on decent defenders. I wouldn't mind Tim O'Brien from SA he is a good size and has a lot of potential. I think he might sneak into the first round xpme draft day and he should test very well.

 

[Mr Ripper]

He must surely be nicknamed "it" already...

Underrated post!

 

[acuguy]

I would think with the success of Zorko and in many respects Bewick i think we will be hunting for a gun state league player and going for it! Got any suggestions. With Hammo spruiking 9 possible delistings you must think we rate the depth of this draft.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Clay Cameron played for the Suns reserves on the weekend and apparently kept Mitch Morton very quiet.

I think the faint hope that the Suns wouldn't take him as a zone selection is all but gone. We may be able to trade for him but I think after the great Zorko heist of 2011, the Suns will be wary about trading away quality local kids.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Mitch Morton kicked 9 goals?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Mitch Morton kicked 9 goals?

Oh, so he did.

Serves me right for trusting the observations of a Suns supporter.

 

[dlanod]

To be fair, one of them in that thread explains it a bit more (7 Morton goals were on Moss, 1 on Cameron):

Moss was awful. Absolutely shocking. I don't know if this was just a bad game or what, but he was way off the pace. Dropped uncontested marks in the forward line with regularity, woeful decision making and mostly poor skill executions. When Moss was shifted into the back-line, he was usually on Morton. As mentioned above, Morton kicked 9 goals. At least 7 of these were on Moss. At one stage he was kicked out of the defensive 50 and told to hit the square, just so he could stop leaking goals.

One of our possible zone selections, Clay Cameron played. When Moss wasn't playing in the defensive 50 on Morton, Cameron was on him playing an extremely tight defensive role on him. Worked with a large amount of success I thought, and there is definitely something to work with. Morton only kicked 1 goal on him I think, which had more to do with Morton's experience than Clay's lack of ability. Still very young and quite small, but obviously that is fixed with some pre-seasons. Knew when to move. No fear to bash and crash into the packs either.

 

[POBT]

I was trying to do the maths on the Gold Coast list the other day.

Current list - 46
2013 list - 42

4 delistings required.

Elevate O'Meara

5 delistings required.

3 Minimum draft selections (including rookie promotions)

8 delistings required.

Unless a priority zone selection can count as a minimum draft selection, Cameron would take it to 9 delistings required at the end of 2012. That's a lot. Gold Coast have been pretty strategic in their list management to date (not to say the strategy has been right). I think it is unlikely that they don't have a broad strategy in place for the 2012 list management decisions but Cameron may well tip them over the edge.

I suspect GC will be interested in "2 for 1" deals to help with their list management strategy. eg "Player + 2nd round pick for 1st round pick" allows them to reduce their list whilst getting some quality. But if Cameron is over and above of their current list management plans, then a 2 for 1 deal involving him simply allows them to keep the status quo.

Obviously, the overriding priority for GC is to develop and improve their list. So they aren't going to trade Cameron if they really rate him. But, as opposed to the Zorko trade being "once bitten, twice shy", I think it is evidence that, even if they have access to a decent player, that has to be balanced against their overall list management strategy. Someone like Cameron doesn't just have to be a decent prospect, he has to be better than the guys already on the list and those available in the draft at the Gold Coast's 3rd/4th pick.

 

[thoselionslads]

GC have had Boston, Bourke and Cameron all play in their reserves in the past month. Given POBT's well thought out logic, it's hard to see GC taking more than 1 QLD zone selection. Boston would add a bit of outside class.

 

[Offsider]

I think that O'Meara counts as one of the players they have to take in the draft, ie minimum of 3 list changes, also zone selections count as they did last year. It probably depends on whether GC rate Cameron as better than a second round pick IMO.

 

[POBT]

I think that O'Meara counts as one of the players they have to take in the draft, ie minimum of 3 list changes, also zone selections count as they did last year..

So, that being the case, the maths is:

-4 to reduce list size
-1 to elevate O'Meara
-1 for pick 2
-1 for 3rd list change

So at least 7 delistings?

Of course, the likes of Horsley and Hall might be looking for an upgrade from the rookie list too (which can count as compulsory list changes).

It probably depends on whether GC rate Cameron as better than a second round pick IMO

Their second round pick is going to be about pick 25 (going off the Phantom Draft). Does anyone think that the likes of Cameron or Boston are worth that?

 

[Offsider]

Yeah I think they have to have a minimum of 7 delistings. So they will probably use pick 2 and their second round pick. I could see them trying to upgrade their second round pick though. I don't think Cameron and Boston are worth pick 25. They will probably do what they did last year IMO, and try and get either compo picks.

I think we could offer (if GC don't want Cameron) our second round pick (30) for their third rounder (44) + Cameron

 

[Sunny_]

Oh, so he did.

Serves me right for trusting the observations of a Suns supporter.

Read my whole post, Dawg! Morton kicked a lot of goals, but not when Clay was minding him!

There's a post I just made on our own list management thread regarding all this, if you guys are keen for a little more knowledge. Quote is below.

Also POBT, Aaron Hall is on the senior list already, promoted with a spot at the end of last year. I'd agree that we would elevate Horsley though.

Can't see Gumbleton going anywhere, myself. What would Freo's first pick be? May not be good enough if they make finals, considering all the compo picks being activated.

One page before this suggests players that might be going, either through trade or delisting. We won't be getting rid of 10-12 players. More like 8. 4 delistings we need to make + 4 of the compulsory additions we need to make.

Those certainly going to be delisted/retired/moved on from list:
Fraser
Krakouer
Moss

Those likely to be traded for picks:
Jolly
Toy
Nichols
Caddy(?)

Those unlikely to stay on the list and will either be traded or delisted.
Flanagan
Magin

I really rate Flanagan and Magin, but just cannot see them showing enough to stay on board. If we didn't have to cull the list, then they would be sticking around for sure. I can see other clubs picking them up.

I put a question mark over Caddy since it seems he's a bit more settled up here now. Not sure what's the go with him.

So with getting rid of 8 players, which we can do without removing Caddy, it leaves us room to get 2 players from the ND, throw in O'Meara and elevate the Horse to the senior list.

 

[Sunny_]

Also to keep in mind there are a couple of Suns Academy players that GC might consider too. Not sure how they will fit in the balance of everything. Perhaps rookied, and see how they go.