2012 Draft Discussion

[POBT]

I guess I'm of the view that it's also possible to get good/very good key defenders later in the draft whereas true game changing midfielders or forwards are rarer.

I agree on tall forwards. My view is that, if you want an elite one, you have to use an early pick. It is like finding a needle in a haystack otherwise.

Midfielders are a bit easier to uncover. Look at this year's AA squad. A mix of very high draft picks (Cotchin, Deledio, Pendlebury, Selwood etc), later first round and early second rounders (Dangerfield, Jetta, Thompson, etc), later selections (Swan, Swallow, Beams, Jack, Mitchell) and a couple of father-sons who weren't exactly elite junior prospects (Watson and Kennedy).

The AA tall forwards reflect the notion that the good ones tend to be elite juniors. Buddy, NRiewoldt, Pavlich are top end draftees. JRiewoldt, Petrie are on the next tier draft-wise. Hawkins was a top 5 talent in his draft year. Walker was a scholarship player and the only one who (IIRC) wasn't a gun junior.

Interestingly, of the tall defenders selected, McPharlin, Glass and Taylor were all first round draft selections while Lonergan and Richards were second rounders.

 

[POBT]

I keep thinking of early 90s Brisbane Broncos winger (yes, that's right, winger) Brett Plowman:

His son plays for the Broncos now as a relatively light weight winger!

 

[Quigley]

One thing which also needs to be considered I think is where the team seems Tickner playing. Personally I think he will end up a CHB and a very fine one. Add Tickner and Clarke to the KPD group and I think there is a bit of quality already in place for the next generation. Taking someone like Rodda this year in the second round provides further depth and leaves pick 8 to be used on other needs.

 

[POBT]

One thing which also needs to be considered I think is where the team seems Tickner playing. Personally I think he will end up a CHB and a very fine one. Add Tickner and Clarke to the KPD group and I think there is a bit of quality already in place for the next generation. Taking someone like Rodda this year in the second round provides further depth and leaves pick 8 to be used on other needs.

Assuming the club agrees with your assessment at all points, that is a fair enough view. Lots of "ifs" though.

 

[Quigley]

There are no guarantees for sure but the kid has been at the top of the tree at every level so far and is in the AIS again this year. The club would have a plan for him and would factor that in when considering who to draft.

 

[POBT]

There are no guarantees for sure but the kid has been at the top of the tree at every level so far and is in the AIS again this year. The club would have a plan for him and would factor that in when considering who to draft.

Of course. He would be firmly within their list management planning.

I guess the "if" that I am more interested in is that he is a future centre half back. You may well be right - it isn't like defence is foreign to Tickner. But I'm not sure we've got the evidence to put a line through Plowman based on that assumption.

 

[Grimreepah]

On top of that, Plowman's not likely to get a game for the next couple of years as it is. I get that he could probably come in and play as a third tall at first with Merrett and Maguire there, but we've already got Patfull there as well. I just don't see where he can get a spot unless there are serious injuries to our other guys like Staker and Lester as well. Obviously we need to prepare for when Rog, Goose and JPat go, but I would much prefer to use our lower picks on backline players, trusting our recruiters to find more gems like Clarke.

The other way of looking at it is that we have very little in the way of quality young key position players, meaning we should favour them, not the other way around. An attacking tall defender would also add a point of difference compared to Merrett, Maguire and Patfull who are more defensive taggers than play makers.

I don't have a position on Plowman, but I do feel strongly about not getting sucked into the height myth when it comes to key position players (especially defenders who tend to be a little smaller than the forwards). There aren't many good defenders above 194cm and a lot of them are closer to 190cm. People tend to feel uncomfortable with key position players of Plowman's height, but the reality suggests that he is fairly close to the optimal size. What's more important is how tall they play, rather than how tall they are.

 

[Grimreepah]

For example Darren Glass (192cm) plays taller than Dustin Fletcher (198cm).

 

[Quigley]

Darren Glass rarely plays on the number 1 forward. It is usual nowerdays that the younger taller McKenzie takes the primary target. Similarly with Rutten and Scarlett.

Most of the next generation of defenders are over 194.

 

[Offsider]

I think that it is important that we start to build a succession plan for our key defenders. All the early key position players generally most of the time turn out to be very important players for their clubs. I don't see Plowman being any different, I think that his defensive game is not only really good, but his offensive rebound is so good that he almost demands to be taken early. He provides great run and another excellent ball user in our backline, and this is something our tall defenders struggle a bit with. I also think that his pace and agility are very good and there should be no reason why the club should not have a long hard look at him.

Also on Cain Tickner he could end up as a CHB, but personally I like him as a CHF, especially with his athleticism and overhead ability.

 

[Morgs_]

Who's to say that Plowman won't grow anymore? I know it might be clutching at straws, but he might have a spurt left in him and could shoot up a couple of cm's. JMO.

 

[Grimreepah]

Darren Glass rarely plays on the number 1 forward. It is usual nowerdays that the younger taller McKenzie takes the primary target. Similarly with Rutten and Scarlett.

That's an interesting point, but it doesn't mean that you put a line through drafting a Glass, Rutten or Scarlett. With a first round pick you want to get as high a quality player as possible rather than getting bogged down in theory.

 

[POBT]

I always think that Glass, Scarlett and Fletcher play on the 2nd or 3rd forward because there is more to their game than pure negating. Glass was a dominant negating defender in the Eagles premiership years against some bloody good forwards. But he's proven himself to be a fantastic reader of play and intercept defender since then. Therefore they give him the roles to maximise those skills.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I always think that Glass, Scarlett and Fletcher play on the 2nd or 3rd forward because there is more to their game than pure negating. Glass was a dominant negating defender in the Eagles premiership years against some bloody good forwards. But he's proven himself to be a fantastic reader of play and intercept defender since then. Therefore they give him the roles to maximise those skills.

This. For the same reason Essendon have played Fletcher on lesser players for years.

 

[Bert Man]

Emmanuel Irra anyone want him? So much talent

 

[blueiris]

Can't see the point in taking Plowman not really a type of player we need. "As we have too many running defenders as it is" and it's not a problem area looking for a tall KPD would suit us better. Some people say He plays like a young Chad Cornes even tho that's a huge rap for the kid not sure he could take the best KPF's of the league looking at a Tanner Smith, Corr or elevating Clarke would be better.

 

[Brisbane2013]

I hope brisbane get's him, with mcguire being so fragile and staker going forward we need someone else to fill in the void

 

[cotter101]

I hope brisbane get's him, with mcguire being so fragile and staker going forward we need someone else to fill in the void

We have Patful and Marrett. Staker might also not play forward and we don't know how he will be after his injury.

We still need a young KPD, I'd be looking at guys like Smith and Rodda.

 

[jjami15]

Hogan, Stringer or best mid at pick 8, Tanner Smith or Jaeksch 23, KPD or
Mid at 30.

 

[Nick Lions]

Does Stringer stand out to anyone as being in the Goodes, Pavlich mould? Ie: An extremely talented tall midfielder who could quite easily switch into a key forward position and kick a bag. That's just the vibe I'm getting from reading about him.

 

[Banana Boots]

My thoughts on our draft would be something like this:
pick 08 - Lachlan Plowman (191cm defender)
pick 23 - Tim O'Brien (193cm forward)
pick 30 - Nathan Hrovat (173cm midfielder)
pick 49 - Emmanuel Irra (179cm utility)
pick 67 - Jake Neade (170cm? mid/fwd)
pick 85 - Shannon Taylor (177cm forward)

A bit hopeful and short but hopefully we can pick up some taller players in the rookie draft or possibly rookie some of these players (Taylor,Neade,Irra) if they last that long, would also love to pick up Myles Bolger (ruckman) in the rookie draft. what do ya think?

 

[PattyKwasagun]

Unless I've missed something, it would seem that Cameron hasn't been invited to the combine. Anything suss going on there, Offsider thoselionslads? I assumed it may have been injury related, but raised the eyebrows still.

 

[footymaad]

Cameron definitely going - named in the tall defender group and been training with the Brisbane squad going to draft camp or state combine.

From the point of potential local boys being drafted / rookie listed, I guess the main short term issue is what the Suns are going to do with their zone selections - depends on how many they take this year given required list reduction of 4, and possible desire to get some mid age players?? Would think Boston and Cameron would be the most likely under consideration, but they had a look at Coleman-Broome and Bourke as well during the season, so who knows. I'm sure if they only take one or two they will be happy to look at trading for their remaIning selections if anyone interested in any other Qld players. Will be interesting to see if Lions look at taking any Qld player via this process - I guess depends a bit on who Suns take first?

 

[Offsider]

Does Stringer stand out to anyone as being in the Goodes, Pavlich mould? Ie: An extremely talented tall midfielder who could quite easily switch into a key forward position and kick a bag. That's just the vibe I'm getting from reading about him.

Stringer has been over-hyped imo, and he is similar in style to Pavilich and Goodes but does not quite have their athletic ability. He looks to have good straight line speed, but his turning circle is huge and he is not the most agile of players which makes me think he could struggle a little in the midfield at AFL level. He is however a strong mark and if I picked him up in the draft it would be as a key forward rather than a mid. I think he is probably worth a pick between 10-20 if he tests well and does well in the medicals if not then potentially 20+.

 

[Offsider]

Unless I've missed something, it would seem that Cameron hasn't been invited to the combine. Anything suss going on there, Offsider thoselionslads? I assumed it may have been injury related, but raised the eyebrows still.

Cameron is going to the draft as a defender as that is where he played most of his footy at the U18 carnival. I think that Gold Coast only have to pick up 2 more players as they already have O'Meara (they may pick up more though), so we could be a good trade option there. I would suggest upgrading one of their picks, ie their second rounder + Clay Cameron for our compo pick. I would also be looking at Jordan Bourke who may want to stay in QLD if he doesn't go to Geelong father son, he is an excellent tall forward prospect and worthy of a second round pick, he has a lot of upside.