2012 Draft Discussion

[ZoBlitz]

I guess one of the problems some of us are having that are basing their judgements on the video is that these highlights are meant to showcase the best qualities of a player and when you watch one when the player's disposal efficiency seems below par, you wonder whether that's indicative of his general play. Otherwise shouldn't there be more highlights showcasing his great disposal skills?

 

[Bert Man]

I would have thought disposal deficiencies are the hardest thing to fix.

Like I said in an AFL environment he can fix these deficiencies as we can pick apart his game and teach him to make better choices. Vossy once gave someone advice and he carried out that advice at training and it carried out in matches, if we get Garlett we can teach how to make good decisions and he will have all pre season to fix this. All that training should translate into his game.

 

[Offsider]

I think decision making is the hardest thing to fix in a draftee - if it is clear that a player has a lot more time and thinks faster than all those around him and just makes great decisions then it is unlikely that another player with poorer decision making skills will catch up. I think that video is indicative of one issue that I have with Garlett's game in that he can just bomb the ball long with out looking. His actual kicking skills are good and when he lowers his eyes he normally hits the target more often than not. I don't really have any issues with Garlett's disposal, he has a pretty sweet left foot.

 

[crispy creme]

Highlight packages are like stats in many ways - they can be used selectively to suit ones POV. A package from the day at Geelong where Garlett was unaccountable when defending, showed no right side of his body and blazed away from 50 out on the boundary, (putting it half-way up the terrace) could be used by those that are dead against taking him at any number in the draft.

 

[Offsider]

Just noticed that Gold Coast have delisted Piers Flanagan, depending on the number of draft picks we have and where they are, I would have a sneaky look at him. I would definitively pick him up in the rookie draft, however, as he has a ton of talent and potential (When Gold Coast picked him up he was rated as a late first rounder/early second rounder upside pick). His body has been the biggest issue with him so far and if we could give him some time to develop on the rookie list he could pay off big time as a half-forward/outside type. I wouldn't delist either Callum Bartlett or Aaron Cornelius to get him though, so probably more a rookie pick.

 

[13Beast]

Pick 8 : Wine/McCrae/Mayes/Jaksch (in that order)
Pick 23: Tom Clurey (however if snagged Jaksch at 8, look at a speedy, quality midfielder instead however there may be a top-quality slider that may pop up here...you never know - could be a best available selection)
Pick 30: White (if a good KPF already selected with an earlier pick, then go for Josh Simpson/Vlastuin/Lonergan/Garlett/Hrovat/Membrey)
Pick 49: Rodda seems alright, though perhaps a Kerr/Hadley smokey nobody knows about may appear at this point.

FYI, totally NOT keen on Mason Shaw. 197cm and 82kg? A stiff wind could blow him over. Hansen, Brown etc are that size and wouldn't cost such a high pick.

Big body all the way for a FF/CHF project player - i.e. Jaksch (195/86) White (195/90), Clurey (193/85), even possibly Paparone (193/84).

 

[cotter101]

Pick 8 : Wine/McCrae/Mayes/Jaksch (in that order)
Pick 23: Tom Clurey (however if snagged Jaksch at 8, look at a speedy, quality midfielder instead however there may be a top-quality slider that may pop up here...you never know - could be a best available selection)
Pick 30: White (if a good KPF already selected with an earlier pick, then go for Josh Simpson/Vlastuin/Lonergan/Garlett/Hrovat/Membrey)
Pick 49: Rodda seems alright, though perhaps a Kerr/Hadley smokey nobody knows about may appear at this point.

FYI, totally NOT keen on Mason Shaw. 197cm and 82kg? A stiff wind could blow him over. Hansen, Brown etc are that size and wouldn't cost such a high pick.

Big body all the way for a FF/CHF project player - i.e. Jaksch (195/86) White (195/90), Clurey (193/85), even possibly Paparone (193/84).

Doubt those 4 will be available at 30. Would take any of them in a heart beat if they were.

You do realize Shaw will bulk up? Could bulk up super quickly like our own, Billy Longer. It's not like they stay the same weight.

 

[Dan12]

Doubt those 4 will be available at 30. Would take any of them in a heart beat if they were.

You do realize Shaw will bulk up? Could bulk up super quickly like our own, Billy Longer. It's not like they stay the same weight.

Agreed. You can raise questions when a guy like Brown (Geel) hasn't bulked up at 22, but when they're 18 and raw and haven't been through the system this shouldn't deter people. It is likely he will get some muscle, not so likely for Brown.

 

[Simba Moyo]

Really liking the look of Macrae at pick 8. Hopefully we can grab Stringer at 23, if not then Hrovat looks mighty dangerous.

 

[acuguy]

Interesting clip of Garlett, there is a lot to like in that package.

1.His ability to make position to received the uncontested football is AFL like, far beyond the normal under 18 highlights you get.
2.That pure acceleration to win the football was impressive
3.His speed to clear the footy from the contest by foot was also excellent
4.He is a one touch footballer

These are all areas we struggle with in our current team

There must be some concern about his guts, i would say he is heavy, not unlike Yarran when he first arrived at Carlton

If we back his character and the culture of our core to support him- he could be a very good pick up for us. He looks and moves at times like Andrew Krakour

 

[lionshine]

I haven't seen the video. I think that it's worrying when a player get 50% disposal efficiency at times, but like I said this can be fixed in an AFL environment. I also know that if we get Garlett your going to run around screaming "We got Garlett"

Yeah no worries however I do think that players disposal efficiency can be skewed at times. I think with Garlett he has always been given a license to run free and play his own game and that definitely explains his lack of defensive game. This can also lead to him at times blazing away for goal or bombing it long inside 50 but in an AFL environment when he has a role to play, I definitely think he will improve his defensive aspects through the reserves and also lower his eyes a lot more when finding targets and when he does that, he hardly ever misses on both feet.

To be honest I am a massive fan of Garlett and I would love for us to recruit him because I think he is a player that our list lacks however there are other players believe it or not that I am keen on and would be happy if we took at pick 8 including Macrae and O'Rourke. I don't think there is much chance of the club selecting Garlett at 8 though to be honest so I am going to have to hope that he slides and we pick him at 23.

This draft is the first in many in which I don't know much about the crop of players. The only player I actually have seen a fair bit of is Garlett and that explains why I am so keen on him. In the past I have seen a lot of footage and a tiny bit of live action of about 20 players but this season only 1. I am by no means and never have been a draft expert like Quigley or Offsider but I did seem to know more then the majority. This year I am in the dark just as much as pretty much everyone else.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I said no after watching Garlett kick. Take him at pick 20 but not pick 8

 

[POBT]

I watched Garlett twice during the champs (albeit only on TV) and would be quite comfortable if the club took him at pick 8. Garlett did a few things that made me think he was potentially a diamond in this draft - he ran hard (albeit more one way than the other), he was happy to win the hard ball even though that isn't his go, he tackled, his kicking is very good and he is as clean as a whistle with his hands. I was expecting to see a flashy, party tricks outside type but I was quite surprised that he had a lot more to his game than that. In a very ordinary WA side, he took a big load on his shoulders and did quite well, I thought.

There are quite a number of players that I'd be comfortable taking with pick 8 and Garlett is one of them. If the club can assure itself that his head is in the right space, he's worth a top 10 pick on talent and performance this year, IMO. When you overlay that on "best team fit", it puts Garlett firmly in discussions - he's a game breaking mid/flanker in a onball division that is one paced and workmanlike.

 

[Quigley]

Outside of Whitfield I would rate Garlett as having the most class and upside of any mid in this draft. I will have him at 4 or 5 in my mock. He has a very nice left foot kick and has really good vision. On the right he tends to bomb long but I think there is no reason why that can't be throttled back. Having watched him three games at the champs to me his skills looked very good. Offensively he is the closest thing to Cyril since Cyril especially when you see them dance in tight with nowhere to move and then make a really good decision. I watched both play at the Champs and they both flashed some really good things although Garlett has not shown the tackling ability of Cyril. It is worth noting that Garlett has made a huge jump to being a full time mid this year and looked very good doing it. There is no reason to think that will not continue as he gets more time there. On talent if we got him at 8 it would be a bargain.

DE% can often be pretty deceiving. I note that O'Rourke has a great DE% but having looked at him closely I think this is really deceiving. I think he is really average with his disposal and quite poor when under pressure which he is going to be a lot more at senior level. If anyone has the Metro - Country game on tape go back and have a look at the number of times his handballs or kicks hit the ground in front of the man. It would have been a half dozen times at least. It still got to the man so counted as an effective disposal but that kind of thing worries me a lot when trying to envisage how their games will translate to the next level. From what I have seen on the field I take Garlett over O'Rourke every time.

 

[whatboutbob]

If anyone has the Metro - Country game on tape go back and have a look at the number of times his handballs or kicks hit the ground in front of the man. It would have been a half dozen times at least.

Yeah, that really struck me at the time. I noted it at least 4 times. I've concerns about Garlett's rumoured off-field stuff, but if given a choice between him and O'Rourke I'd take Garlett every time.

 

[Quigley]

Yeah it will be the attitude that drops Garlett down. That is also the reason why Cyril fell to the Hawks his year.

 

[gecko8]

In terms of Gartlett's 'off-field' issues, can someone enlighten me on some of the more specifics? Is it more of an application/attitude issue or a booze/loose-cannon type thing?

 

[Ceebee]

I just want another Daniel Rich someone ready to play right from the start.
Rising Star first year.
Is that asking too much?

 

[Harris Specter]

I'm now a big fan of Josh Simpson. Which pick is he likely to around in?

Wouldn't mind if we picked him up at 23, or even 8.


So many evasive skills, speed and acceleration. Yes please!!!!

 

[spotthedog1]

I guess one of the problems some of us are having that are basing their judgements on the video is that these highlights are meant to showcase the best qualities of a player and when you watch one when the player's disposal efficiency seems below par, you wonder whether that's indicative of his general play. Otherwise shouldn't there be more highlights showcasing his great disposal skills?

That's what I was worried about... But as I said earlier, I was actually quite happy with his coolness and decision making - i thought he actually chose his targets well - kicked to 1 on 1s or winnable contests, it just wasn't terribly well placed when he did that... And if that video was indicative of an average game, my worries over his disposal would be non-existant. It's just coz that was from his highlights package that it concerned me...

Regardless, in my head, disposal efficiency is far easier to correct than decision making and coolness under pressure. Kicking and target practice is far easier to train at than poise and a good footy brain, both of which he appears to have. Having seen no more of his stuff than the highlight video, I'd be unsure. But those who've watched him seem to indicate they're odd selections, and overall he's good, so i'd be happy enough with him at 8. If Quigs has him at 4 or 5, i'd be very happy at 8.

 

[Simba Moyo]

I'm now a big fan of Josh Simpson. Which pick is he likely to around in?

Wouldn't mind if we picked him up at 23, or even 8.


So many evasive skills, speed and acceleration. Yes please!!!!

I second that.

 

[spotthedog1]

Yeah, Josh Simpson is one I'd be very keen on at 23 - hadn't seen that video before though. Have to love his ability to run and carry, take on the man... Couple of beautiful passes in there - particular that 40m chest high stab pass at ~2:00.

 

[POBT]

A long, long time ago, there were about 3 people in the public domain who you could rely on to give you a decent analysis of a player. There was no footage of players, no TV coverage of the champs and very little publicly available information about the draftees. Basically, you were relying on the likes of a poster like Weaver to give you the run down. The problem is that you had very few sources of information - which meant you had a limited number of opinions to consider and there was an increased likelihood of an error as you couldn't verify one person's thoughts against others.

These days, I think it is fantastic that we have the likes of Quigley and several others on forums, plus someone like Emma Quayle in the media, as well as video footage and draft combine reports. You can balance these different sources and reach a view of your own based on these various opinions. It is like being able to read 12 different accounts of an historical moment and then having your own opinion on what happened, as opposed to relying on a single source.

Video highlights are pretty limited on their own and don't tell anywhere near the full picture. Where I find them useful is to put a picture to the descriptions of players providing on BigFooty and elsewhere. If someone is described as an inside mid, and you see some highlights of them burrowing into packs to win the footy, it provides a bit of a corroboration.

 

[whatboutbob]

Simpson was the player tagged as selfish by one of the recruiters when his notes were broadcast during one of the u18 games, yeah?

 

[Bert Man]

Simpson was the player tagged as selfish by one of the recruiters when his notes were broadcast during one of the u18 games, yeah?

Which recruiter?