2012 draft

["The Roar Is Back"]

I get the excitement assciated with Grundy given our lack of ruck depth , however , we have a 22 year old ruckman who was taken a pick 8 in the same draft as undoubtedly the most promising ruckman to enter the game for some time and was at the time when drafted considerd only slightly behind that player.
It is not impossible to suspect the ruck ratio over the next 4-5 years to be:
2013 : 70% maric 30 % Vickery
2014 : 50/50
2015 : 70 % Vickery 30% Maric
2016 : 80 % Vickery 20 % Maric
2017 : 80% Vickery (Maric retired )
2018 : 80% Vickery

Yes it would be great to have a top round draft pick, to tuck away for 4 years until havig a need for them , however over that time it is very likely players like Tuck, Jackson, Newman, Foley and Lids, either retire or start to tail off in performances.
Now some may say suggesting Lids will drop off in the next few years is getting a bit carried away/unnecessary, given to his age , however the workload he has had to carry to date is beyond what most are asked to carry.
The big query is whether the club is going to start upping the ante on Vickery in regards to the ruck workload he is required to play .
Or is the plan to play him as a solely 3rd tall forward whilst we have a forward like Griffiths, who many believed at the time of drafting was a top 10 pick bar injury, not getting a game.
Using 2 first round picks within 5 years upon a ruckman doesn't sit that well with me TBH, and to pick Grundy, or the like, with a first pick , is pretty much an admission I think that Vickery will not make a number 1 ruckman and that he is likely to amount to little more than a 3rd tall forward.
FWIW I think Vickery has had the red carpet rolled out for him long enough and it's about time he started performing to the level he showed he was capable of at TAC level. Therefore signifcantly reducing the need to again use a first round pick on a ruckman , just yet.

 

[Toadvine]

I completely disagree with the bolded sentence. Unless there is a stand out ruck who can potentially dominate ie Nic Nat, drafting ruckman beyond pick 5-10 is a huge waste IMO. Every team can only have 2 decent ruckman playing before the 3/4 ruck start getting unhappy. This means that ruckman beyond the best 36 ruckman in the country could change clubs for opportunity rather cheaply (ie Ivan Maric). Even a 2nd ruck could change clubs to play 1st at another, so you could say any guy beyond the best 18 ruckman as attainable. Due to the time it takes to develop a ruckman (4 years minimum), the risk that they may never be inside this top 18 guys in the country and the fact that you can use the same pick on a ready made ruck, it never makes sense to use a pick on them. For mine the days of drafting an 18yo twig in the hope they may become a first ruck is over.

You do realise that many many watchers believe Grundy is just as good as Nic Nat? Matt Rendell when asked about the "risk" of taking Grundy in the first round said " it didn't worry West Coast when they picked Naitanui"

Have you considered that the club could view Vickery as our CHF not a ruck resting forward?

Grundy is no 18year old twig either. He is already 100kg and ready for AFL footy.

I understand you reservations but unless you have seen this guy in comparison to others coming through I've the years you'd understand that Grundy is the exception to the "Oh shit not a ruckman in the first round!" Rule

 

[Tigerbob]

You do realise that many many watchers believe Grundy is just as good as Nic Nat? Matt Rendell when asked about the "risk" of taking Grundy in the first round said " it didn't worry West Coast when they picked Naitanui"

Have you considered that the club could view Vickery as our CHF not a ruck resting forward?

Grundy is no 18year old twig either. He is already 100kg and ready for AFL footy.

I understand you reservations but unless you have seen this guy in comparison to others coming through I've the years you'd understand that Grundy is the exception to the "Oh shit not a ruckman in the first round!" Rule

Brilliantly said.

His versatility means we have options. Vickery permanent forward suits us, with Grundy and Maric rotating forward.

You don't overlook guys like Grundy. You just don't.

 

[Stylo]

So, Viney? Would we take him?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

You do realise that many many watchers believe Grundy is just as good as Nic Nat? Matt Rendell when asked about the "risk" of taking Grundy in the first round said " it didn't worry West Coast when they picked Naitanui"

Have you considered that the club could view Vickery as our CHF not a ruck resting forward?

Grundy is no 18year old twig either. He is already 100kg and ready for AFL footy.

I understand you reservations but unless you have seen this guy in comparison to others coming through I've the years you'd understand that Grundy is the exception to the "Oh shit not a ruckman in the first round!" Rule

Brilliantly said.

His versatility means we have options. Vickery permanent forward suits us, with Grundy and Maric rotating forward.

You don't overlook guys like Grundy. You just don't.

There were plenty suggesting Vickery was the equivelant of Nic Nat leading into the 2008 draft based on there performances to that date.

 

[Tigerbob]

There were plenty suggesting Vickery was the equivelant of Nic Nat leading into the 2008 draft based on there performances to that date.

Yep and Nic Nat didn't have a season like Vickery had in 2011. All Australian this year, beyond a joke.

Grundy is every bit as promising, more ruck than Vickery, less a forward. Perfect future compliment, whilst we have a few years of Maric left.

 

[Cotcho]

You do realise that many many watchers believe Grundy is just as good as Nic Nat? Matt Rendell when asked about the "risk" of taking Grundy in the first round said " it didn't worry West Coast when they picked Naitanui"

Have you considered that the club could view Vickery as our CHF not a ruck resting forward?

Grundy is no 18year old twig either. He is already 100kg and ready for AFL footy.

I understand you reservations but unless you have seen this guy in comparison to others coming through I've the years you'd understand that Grundy is the exception to the "Oh shit not a ruckman in the first round!" Rule

No I didnt so sorry and excuse my ignorance. I know nothing of the young kids this year and I didnt even know Grundy was a ruck. But if you read my comments, if what you say about Grundy is true then he doesnt at all fit into what I was saying. Proposal "B" and "C" both have ruckman who are not Grundy and are outside the top 5-10?

 

[tigs2010]

So, Viney? Would we take him?

Melbourne will keep him no matter what. Same with Hogan.

 

[Tigerbob]

So, Viney? Would we take him?

Depends who is left, but a consideration for sure if he is there.

What will happen if he goes back into the pool is make someone fall, that someone could be Grundy. I am happy with that.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Yep and Nic Nat didn't have a season like Vickery had in 2011. All Australian this year, beyond a joke.

Grundy is every bit as promising, more ruck than Vickery, less a forward. Perfect future compliment, whilst we have a few years of Maric left.

So a player not rated as high as Nic Nat in this years draft, you expect to exceed the performances of Vickery who was rated by many on par or some better than Nic Nat, in the same enviroment yet 4 years younger on not playing against Nic Nat.
IIRC, Rendalls comments re Grundy being ready to go, to play some games in 2013, have been massively over exagerated by some to suggest he is ready to play, all games when available .

 

[Tigerbob]

So a player not rated as high as Nic Nat in this years draft, you expect to exceed the performances of Vickery who was rated by many on par or some better than Nic Nat, in the same enviroment yet 4 years younger on not playing against Nic Nat.
IIRC, Rendalls comments re Grundy being ready to go, to play some games in 2013, have been massively over exagerated by some to suggest he is ready to play, all games when available .

Woah, who is saying Grundy won't be as good as Nic Nat?

I rate him just as highly, if not moreso at the same level. Grundy is just as unique due to his Basketball background.

Rendell's comments are spot on. Why would you say they are exaggerated? He is ready to go, he is 100kg, very advanced in his ruckwork and his improvement in 2012 as a forward is amazing. No reason he can't be ready to go. Comments in my opinion are fair.

You would be one silly recruiter to turn this guy down at Pick 9.

 

[Toadvine]

No I didnt so sorry and excuse my ignorance. I know nothing of the young kids this year and I didnt even know Grundy was a ruck. But if you read my comments, if what you say about Grundy is true then he doesnt at all fit into what I was saying. Proposal "B" and "C" both have ruckman who are not Grundy and are outside the top 5-10?

Sorry mate got a bit hasty on my phone and must have lost track of what you were talking about.

 

[Toadvine]

No I didnt so sorry and excuse my ignorance. I know nothing of the young kids this year and I didnt even know Grundy was a ruck. But if you read my comments, if what you say about Grundy is true then he doesnt at all fit into what I was saying. Proposal "B" and "C" both have ruckman who are not Grundy and are outside the top 5-10?

Sorry mate got a bit hasty on my phone and must have lost track of what you were talking about.

 

[bananatigz]

Really like Nathan Wright's video on the AFL website, tigers man too, looks like he might be gone by 32 going by Knightmare and Chris.

 

[MR]

Pretty good authority that Plowman won't feature in the top 10 unless Melbourne has pick 4 taken from them.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Woah, who is saying Grundy won't be as good as Nic Nat?

I rate him just as highly, if not moreso at the same level. Grundy is just as unique due to his Basketball background.

Rendell's comments are spot on. Why would you say they are exaggerated? He is ready to go, he is 100kg, very advanced in his ruckwork and his improvement in 2012 as a forward is amazing. No reason he can't be ready to go. Comments in my opinion are fair.

You would be one silly recruiter to turn this guy down at Pick 9.

Didnt say Rendalls comment where over exaggerated , I said that some are over exxagerating his comments , which IIRC , where he is ready to go and play games next year , or words to that effect . By suggesting he is capable of playing all games when available next season .
There are plenty of astute recruiters who think Richmond taking Grundy , if available at 9 , would be a mistake .

 

[Toadvine]

Didnt say Rendalls comment where over exaggerated , I said that some are over exxagerating his comments , which IIRC , where he is ready to go and play games next year , or words to that effect . By suggesting he is capable of playing all games when available next season .
There are plenty of astute recruiters who think Richmond taking Grundy , if available at 9 , would be a mistake .

And who are they?

 

[MR]

Didnt say Rendalls comment where over exaggerated , I said that some are over exxagerating his comments , which IIRC , where he is ready to go and play games next year , or words to that effect . By suggesting he is capable of playing all games when available next season .
There are plenty of astute recruiters who think Richmond taking Grundy , if available at 9 , would be a mistake .

If the reasoning behind these recruiters is that it's because he is a ruckman or that Richmond need an inside midfielder more, I would question their credibility.

I'd be very interested to understand why they think it would be a mistake.

 

[tigs2010]

Didnt say Rendalls comment where over exaggerated , I said that some are over exxagerating his comments , which IIRC , where he is ready to go and play games next year , or words to that effect . By suggesting he is capable of playing all games when available next season .
There are plenty of astute recruiters who think Richmond taking Grundy , if available at 9 , would be a mistake .

I disagree with it being a mistake but I think we will go a mid. Hasn't Hardwick said that he disagrees with taking rucks in the first round or words to that affect? That coupled with everything we are doing being about finals next year points to taking a mid IMO.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If the reasoning behind these recruiters is that it's because he is a ruckman or that Richmond need an inside midfielder more, I would question their credibility.

I'd be very interested to understand why they think it would be a mistake.

You can question their creditability all you like , I doubt they are going to get to upset/ or actually take any notice, what someone thinks upon here TBH .

 

[MR]

I disagree with it being a mistake but I think we will go a mid. Hasn't Hardwick said that he disagrees with taking rucks in the first round or words to that affect? That coupled with everything we are doing being about finals next year points to taking a mid IMO.

We were very strongly considering taking Elton with pick 15 last year. He was a Ruck/Fwd, so I doubt it.

Also tigs, do you believe that a midfielder in his first year at the club will be the driving force for us being in finals next year? Of course not. Having Grundy or having Vlastuin next year will hardly be a difference on whether we make finals next year or not. I personally believe our list is ready for finals, having Grundy ensures future success.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

If the reasoning behind these recruiters is that it's because he is a ruckman or that Richmond need an inside midfielder more, I would question their credibility.

I'd be very interested to understand why they think it would be a mistake.

You can question their creditability all you like , I doubt they are going to get to upset/ or actually take any notice, what someone thinks upon here TBH .

 

[MR]

You can question their creditability all you like , I doubt they are going to get to upset/ or actually take any notice, what someone thinks upon here TBH .

I'm sure they wouldn't, but you still haven't explained their reasoning.

I could say right now, I know a recruiter who thinks if Whitfield is available at 9, we shouldn't take him, because it would be a mistake. That opinion would mean SFA to you.

My opinion of Grundy would never change because a 'recruiter' with no real reasoning says it would be a mistake.

 

[tigs2010]

We were very strongly considering taking Elton with pick 15 last year. He was a Ruck/Fwd, so I doubt it.

Also tigs, do you believe that a midfielder in his first year at the club will be the driving force for us being in finals next year? Of course not. Having Grundy or having Vlastuin next year will hardly be a difference on whether we make finals next year or not. I personally believe our list is ready for finals, having Grundy ensures future success.

Elton was drafted as a CHF. And he wasn't in the first 3/4 we were going to take at 15.

Edit: forgot to answer the rest. I think Vlastuin will have a pretty solid impact next year. He's not going to be the difference between where we are now and coming 8th but he will contribute to it with improvement from the other guys we've drafted last couple of years and the guys we have brought in such as Chaplin/Knights etc.

 

[MR]

Elton was drafted as a CHF. And he wasn't in the first 3/4 we were going to take at 15.

I've been told differently in terms of Elton at 15. We also see him being able to pinch hit. When I say Ruck/Fwd, more a Roughead type.