2012 draft

[_RT_]

I disagree I see him playing as resting forward relieve ruckman for Ivan and Tyrone as full time CHF. Plus you don't draft for 2013 you draft for the next 10-15 yrs.

As far as KPP/Ruckmen go we currently have:
Maric Derickx as rucks
Riewoldt Elton McGuane as KPFs
Chaplin Rance Grimes as KPDs
& Vickery Griffiths Astbury as swingmen i.e. ruck/forward or back/forward.

In our best 22 we're likely to have a lineup something like this:
FB: Chaplin CHB: Griffiths CHF: Vickery FF: Riewoldt Ruck: Maric FP: Elton/McGuane/Astbury BP/HBF: Grimes Rance

As good as Grundy is hyped up to be I don't honestly see him playing ahead of any of them with the exception of Derickx McGuane and perhaps Elton given he is still bulking up.

As for drafting for the next 10-15 years I believe we have done that with regards our talls over the last 3-4 years, we've added a heap of quality young talls who are all starting to show some results. Adding Grundy for mine would be a waste, not because he isn't talented but more because I just don't see how he fits into our lineup now or in the future.

 

[_RT_]

There's a fair chance that whoever we pick at 9 won't play a lot of footy in 2013. On the other hand, if injury hits, we may have no choice. If Vickery or Maric were to go down, Grundy may be very handy, given his already developed body.

On the contrary, if we take Vlastuin or by grace of God Wines I'd expect them to be playing a fair bit of footy given their already matured bodies. Some of the skinnier draftees might not though.

 

[Tigerbob]

this is why you tend to draft the best available particularly in the 1st rd. you can end up chasing tail by trying to fill a need rather than picking talent which could hurt both ways as you passed on an obvious talent and that pick you did take didnt come on.

With a first rounder, particularly top 10, you take the best available.

Now Richmond may rate Vlastuin higher than Grundy (I would strongly disagree with this) but if that is the case, fair enough. They will get judged that in the future. I would hate for us to overlook Grundy for a need because we think we are an inside midfielder away from a top 4 spot.

Maric will be what, 27? 3 years time he is 30. At that point whilst he is in decline mode, Grundy is 21 years old. It is not like Grundy can play ruck and only ruck. He could play third tall forward next year alongside Riewoldt and Vickery. Would be a match up hell for the opposition. Would prefer him there than Edwards. Would provide more defensive pressure too as he is very quick and a good tackler.

If we are relying on Maric with Derickx and a Wood as a rookie, think about it for one second. Derickx and Wood? You have got to be kidding me. Vickery is a forward/ruck, as Dimma said he is so important to our forward structure.

The more you think of it, the more mind blowing it would be for us to bypass Grundy. I know its the same for anyone choosing before us, but I am not concerned with them.

Again, I like Vlastuin, I like Garner, love Menzel. Won't be unhappy with these guys. But to give up what I said? Would be a head scratcher.

 

[MR]

Adding Grundy for mine would be a waste, not because he isn't talented but more because I just don't see how he fits into our lineup now or in the future.

As our first ruckman in the future. He doesn't fit in our line-up now. There is no guarantee that a midfielder that we might take at 9 will fit into our line-up immediately either.

I agree with you, we have very good KPP depth for the future, but in terms of ruckmen, there is absolutely nothing.

Maric in 3-5 years may burn out.
Derickx only stayed because we needed more immediate back-up for Ivan, and Browne wasn't going to provide it. He may not last past 2013.

Personally, I don't see Vickery as a first ruckman. I like him very much in his current role.

We will have to target a ruckman in either this or next year's draft, it is an area in which we are desperately lacking in depth. Arguably we could bring in a mature ruckman every time one burns out, but there is no guarantee that he will turn out good.

We got very lucky. In the same year as Ivan, Renouf was traded for an earlier pick, and he never came on this year. Jordan Lisle was traded for an even earlier pick, although he is still very much a project player.

 

[Mr Magic]

Tigerbob and Martin Riewoldt have hit the nail on the head in a lot of respects.

It is not as if we have mids of the ilk of a Martin/Cotch/Judd or Selwood to select at 9. Grundy stands out like a sore thumb for mine and you never look a gift horse in the mouth, in fact I would even go Plowman for the same reasons but the Grundy option is better than when Rance fell into our draft laps IMO id it eventuates, so don't think do.. or pick..

As the guys where saying in 5-8 years we may not have a ruckman, Cotch and co would be in there prime right in our window and Lids screaming for a premiership at the back end of his career. I for one, would have no hesitation in selecting Grundy at 9.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Vickery was very close if not , like IMO , better than Grundy at the same age . We gave up pick 8 for him , he has now been in the AFL system for 4 years 1 of which he was injured and 1 he was used forward to develop that aspect if his game .
You can't keep on going to the well drafting ruckmen with high draft picks and turning them in bit players to save face .
Maric is number ruckmen in 2013 doing around 65% of the ruck work , in 2014 he and Vickery should share it 50/50 before Vickery starts to dominate like he ****ing well should .
This same player owned Nic Nat at junior level , it's about time the club stopped pussy footing around with him , his balls should have now dropped , surely .
Bringing in Grundy would be the greatest wasted pick for some time .
Griffith , Astbury and Elton are developing KPF . Vivkery was drafted as a hugely talented ruckman . Develop them in those roles and use early picks on midfielders .
Despite having minimal ruck depth Maric and a developing Vickery are very very capable and compare very well to any other ruck / 2nd ruck combination .

 

[Damo80]

Exactly right, M_R. Anyone thinking Maric is the rule, not the exception, is a fool. We have been very, very lucky with that trade, and the club has even admitted he has well and truly exceeded expectations. It would be crazy to pass up Grundy in favour of paying overs for another clubs ruck dregs in a few years time, and hoping he "does a Maric". At the age Maric is, his time may well be coming to a close just when we're peaking too. I just can't understand the short sightedness of those who can't see a place for Grundy.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Picking up a good mature uninjured ruckman is hard, and usually expensive

For every Jolly there are plenty of Renoufs, Woods and Seabys.

Grundy all the way if we have the chance.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The only question is, would you have time to blink before calling out his number.

I think he's an out-and-out gun.
If he slips to 15 or 20, clubs will end up kicking themselves.

With all due respect Slatts , Stringer is below average in agility , leap , pace and below his knees , he had a shocking nationals where these aspects were exposed . Not first round material .

 

[Mr Magic]

Vickery was very close if not , like IMO , better than Grundy at the same age . We gave up pick 8 for him , he has now been in the AFL system for 4 years 1 of which he was injured and 1 he was used forward to develop that aspect if his game .
You can't keep on going to the well drafting ruckmen with high draft picks and turning them in bit players to save face .
Maric is number ruckmen in 2013 doing around 65% of the ruck work , in 2014 he and Vickery should share it 50/50 before Vickery starts to dominate like he ******* well should .
This same player owned Nic Nat at junior level , it's about time the club stopped pussy footing around with him , his balls should have now dropped , surely .
Bringing in Grundy would be the greatest wasted pick for some time .
Griffith , Astbury and Elton are developing KPF . Vivkery was drafted as a hugely talented ruckman . Develop them in those roles and use early picks on midfielders .
Despite having minimal ruck depth Maric and a developing Vickery are very very capable and compare very well to any other ruck / 2nd ruck combination .

I think Vickery will become a very good ruckman and pinch hit forward but Grundy, for mine, always a far surer and better prospect than Vickery particulary in the ruck area. I rate Grundy almost ready made while Vickery was a very exciting prospect

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

Tigerbob and Martin Riewoldt have hit the nail on the head in a lot of respects.

It is not as if we have mids of the ilk of a Martin/Cotch/Judd or Selwood to select at 9. Grundy stands out like a sore thumb for mine and you never look a gift horse in the mouth, in fact I would even go Plowman for the same reasons but the Grundy option is better than when Rance fell into our draft laps IMO id it eventuates, so don't think do.. or pick..

As the guys where saying in 5-8 years we may not have a ruckman, Cotch and co would be in there prime right in our window and Lids screaming for a premiership at the back end of his career. I for one, would have no hesitation in selecting Grundy at 9.

or u build your side with mids & KPP & then could go and poach a ruckman (the final piece of the puzzle) Ala Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney

 

[Nick Lions]

Hey guys and gals. We're about to undertake a mock draft on our board and I've drawn Richmond. I've got a pretty good understanding of the draftees, but don't know all that much about what your list requires. I don't personally see any glaring holes, so would be drafting for the future.What I've gathered from reading some of your posts, is that you would like to see mids drafted early. I think your KPP stocks, KPD especially, are pretty good for now so I wouldn't really be looking to address that. I may go for a key forward if they are too good to pass up. I think a ruck as a late selection may be a reasonable choice. Do you as supporters see any glaring holes? I'm also wondering if you are expecting rookie upgrades or pre-listed players (I saw Toy, Stephenson and Petterd along with A. Maric, are training with you guys. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Mr Magic]

or u build your side with mids & KPP & then could go and poach a ruckman (the final piece of the puzzle) Ala Geelong, Collingwood, Sydney

Fair call, however the Swans had the salary cap bonus to poach other players as well eg. Kennedy, Hall etc.., Collingwood under extreme circumstances got Ball(if they hadn't would the Saints be premiers and pies not??) and Geelong were a freak team courtesy of father son and Tigers generosity as well as drafting well. The thing is with players who supported the Tigers like O rouke , Tyson , etc.. even Blease for us it would be easier for us to go Grundy and get mids etc... later.

This goes back to Dimma, who should have got a longer extension yet again, because the goals should be longer term premiership prospects not 2013 feel good moments and short term prospects like in Melboune where, according to some it was tank or else.

Please for once Tigers, no short term fixes and lets get serious about bringing together a premiership capable team!

 

[OnTheFool]

midfielders are a dime a dozen...

Grundy every day of the week if available (highly unlikely)

He, Stringer and Menzel will shape this draft one way or another

 

[Stylo]

Hey guys and gals. We're about to undertake a mock draft on our board and I've drawn Richmond. I've got a pretty good understanding of the draftees, but don't know all that much about what your list requires. I don't personally see any glaring holes, so would be drafting for the future.What I've gathered from reading some of your posts, is that you would like to see mids drafted early. I think your KPP stocks, KPD especially, are pretty good for now so I wouldn't really be looking to address that. I may go for a key forward if they are too good to pass up. I think a ruck as a late selection may be a reasonable choice. Do you as supporters see any glaring holes? I'm also wondering if you are expecting rookie upgrades or pre-listed players (I saw Toy, Stephenson and Petterd along with A. Maric, are training with you guys. Any help would be appreciated.

You're pretty much spot on. We'll be looking at mids (most pressing need is inside but a mix of inside and outside would be good) and possibly another forward if there's one too good to pass (like Membrey/O'Brien at 32 for example). Don't think we're planning any rookie upgrades or pre-lists at this stage and it looks like we'll just be taking the 4 picks (9, 32, 34, 43). Let us know how you go!

 

[Stylo]

Hypothetical, if Brandon Ellis were in this year's pool where do people think he would land?

 

[ohhhBigMalcho]

Hypothetical, if Brandon Ellis were in this year's pool where do people think he would land?

pick 20-30 i would think

 

[Bird Man]

port will look to take grundy

 

[Kyusss]

Does anyone know if delisted free agents are able to accept rookie contracts for the club of their choice?

 

[sregit]

midfielders are a dime a dozen...

Grundy every day of the week if available (highly unlikely)

He, Stringer and Menzel will shape this draft one way or another

Spot on! Grundy could reshape this teaming adding fantastic structure. Forward pocket, changing ruck with Ivan and Vickery plays CHF. Likelyhood is one of the three would not be available and we would not be substantially weakened structure wise , like we were when Vickery went out. Even though has was not playing that well, TV being out weakened our structure last season. We don't want this to happen again. Even though I think he will be gone it's Grundy for me.

 

[theflea]

Agree, just pointing out that other clubs not taking him isn't necessarily a pointer to them thinking he's not worthy of that pick

yes i knew what you meant. who knows what clubs think and how they are rated. i do think kpp's is a little different to general mids tho.

 

[theflea]

As far as KPP/Ruckmen go we currently have:
Maric Derickx as rucks
Riewoldt Elton McGuane as KPFs
Chaplin Rance Grimes as KPDs
& Vickery Griffiths Astbury as swingmen i.e. ruck/forward or back/forward.

In our best 22 we're likely to have a lineup something like this:
FB: Chaplin CHB: Griffiths CHF: Vickery FF: Riewoldt Ruck: Maric FP: Elton/McGuane/Astbury BP/HBF: Grimes Rance

As good as Grundy is hyped up to be I don't honestly see him playing ahead of any of them with the exception of Derickx McGuane and perhaps Elton given he is still bulking up.

As for drafting for the next 10-15 years I believe we have done that with regards our talls over the last 3-4 years, we've added a heap of quality young talls who are all starting to show some results. Adding Grundy for mine would be a waste, not because he isn't talented but more because I just don't see how he fits into our lineup now or in the future.

fair comment rt but imo if we got grundy whats to say he learns his craft over the course of the next 2 years in and out of the side but then maric starts to wane in form/injury and derickx/wood/stephenson potentially dont really come good, we have a replacement ready to go. what about if vickery is just a kpf and not really good enough as a 1st ruck?then we need to find replacements at our cost. these are hypotheticals but something to consider.

 

[theflea]

On the contrary, if we take Vlastuin or by grace of God Wines I'd expect them to be playing a fair bit of footy given their already matured bodies. Some of the skinnier draftees might not though.

who's position is vlas or wines going to take?

 

[TOOs_Finest]

yes i knew what you meant. who knows what clubs think and how they are rated. i do think kpp's is a little different to general mids tho.

Dunno about that. I reckon the rated talls tend to only really slide when there are injuries in question. Darling maybe the exception, due to off field circumstances.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

who's position is vlas or wines going to take?

My point exactly. Vlastuin is talked about as being the "Tuck replacement". Well that's not likely going to be next year. Despite their BF status, guys like Tuck, Jackson and Conca will have to be well and truly challenged by a rookie before they lose their spots.