2012 draft

[tigs2010]

For example with GWS and Swans with salary cap bonus you know they will win again

You left out Carlton.

 

[theflea]

So as I stated on another thread I'm led to believe we can take either 4 main list and 4 rookies 5 & 3 and possibly 6 & 2 (not 100% sure on the last one but I believe it to be the case because the veteran list has changed where you can have unlimited inside your 40 players and save 100k per player)

Just to be safe I'm going with 39 & 5 because I know we can definitely do that.

For us I'd be looking at getting the best possible player from the delisted pool and putting him on the main list. IMO looking at the list that would be Sam Lonergan from Essendon. 25 years old 182cm inside midfielder. Not all that polished but he is solid and competes hard.

Then we still have our 4 picks.

I'm so torn between Vlastuin and Garner it isn't bloody funny anymore. Every time I watch the VC vs WA game makes me want Garner on our team more and more. But then he has shoulder issues. Vlastuin on the other hand is a gun inside midfielder. They both fill a need (Vlastuin as an inside mid/Garner as that mercurial forward) I think either way I'd be happy on draft day.

In my scenario we already got Lonergan so I'm going to go Taylor Garner here. 18 years old 187cm medium forward. A young inside mid would have to be a must amongst our next mids.

Pick 32/34. I think everyone around here knows I rate Atkins very highly and I really hope we get him on draft day if available. If we don't Essendon will and I'll find it too hard to follow his career. I see him as a midfielder personally so don't think it matters that I have Garner first. 186cm mid/fwd.

Pongracic would be the inside mid I'd snap up here in this scenario. Not the same level talent as Vlas but just as hard at it. 183cm inside mid

Then it gets harder. Matthew Dick isn't one I've seen huge amounts of. So maybe Tigerbob could give me some more info. But lovely size, dashing defender with a good kick. 188cm hbf/wing.

Would leave us with 3 rookie picks.

If he passes his medical Josh Toy would be the first one I'd take. If we can go 40 & 4 I'd snap him up earlier as a delisted player just to be sure. 20 year old 184cm HBF

As we are getting Garner and Atkins I'd pass on Petterd and grab a small forward. Anthony Tipungwuti. I was talking him up last year and he has worked hard to drop the weight this year. He's quick, agile, skilled and moves like a mini truck. So strong. 19 year old 172cm small forward.

And for rucks one of Cameron Wood/Orren Stephenson seems to be the direction the club is headed. Both ordinary but I guess Wood at least has a few years in him if he grows a heart. 25 year old 204cm ruck.

Then we have obviously added Gideon Simon. 18 year old 172cm small forward from PNG.

Would like to add Yannick Crowder to the rookie list to. 203cm ruck from USA.

Overall adding

Taylor Garner 187cm 78kg Medium Forward
Rory Atkins 186cm 81kg Midfielder/Forward
Jason Pongracic 183cm 87kg Midfielder
Matthew Dick 188cm 86kg Defender/Midfielder

Sam Lonergan 182cm 81kg Midfielder

Josh Toy 184cm 83kg HBF
Anthony Tipungwuti 172cm 74kg Small Forward
Cameron Wood 204cm 107kg Ruck

Gideon Simon 172cm 71kg Small Forward
Yannick Crowder 203cm 98kg Ruck

Best 22:
B: Dylan Grimes, Troy Chaplin, Steven Morris
HB: Chris Newman, Alex Rance, Bachar Houli
C: Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin, Shaun Grigg
HF: Dustin Martin, Tyrone Vickery, Taylor Garner
F: Robin Nahas, Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards
R: Ivan Maric, Shane Tuck, Nathan Foley
INT: Reece Conca, Ben Griffiths, Brandon Ellis
SUB: Brad Helbig

Ressies:
B: Matthew Dea, Ben Darrou, Josh Toy
HB: Jake Batchelor, David Astbury, Steven Verrier
C: Chris Knights, Sam Lonergan, Brett O'Hanlon
HF: Anthony Tipungwuti, Todd Elton, Rory Atkins
F: Aaron Edwards, Tom Derickx, Jake King
R: Cameron Wood, Daniel Jackson, Jason Pongracic
OTHERS: Luke McGuane, Matthew White, Matthew Arnot, Matthew Dick, Gideon Simon, Yannick Crowder.

my 2c's. there is no way ATM that garner would be ahead of knights or batchelor in the 22. imo garner and ellis out for these 2. also if we do pick up wood in the rookie draft imo there's no way he should be the 1st ruck instead of derickx. tom d has to be given the best chance to play in the position he was drafted as and thats as a no1 ruck. wood has had plenty of chances at afl level.

 

[theflea]

Not sure who they would replace, it was more a comment about their size allowing them to be able to play more.

i think we are more likely to be in a position that we dont have to blood new draftee's straight away.

 

[UpTheGuts]

I really don't want Coburg playing TD at FB and stuff again next year.

 

[tigs2010]

my 2c's. there is no way ATM that garner would be ahead of knights or batchelor in the 22. imo garner and ellis out for these 2. also if we do pick up wood in the rookie draft imo there's no way he should be the 1st ruck instead of derickx. tom d has to be given the best chance to play in the position he was drafted as and thats as a no1 ruck. wood has had plenty of chances at afl level.

Who knows how Garner goes over pre-season. I think he's a different type to Knights. I've got him in as that 3rd tall in the forward line. Not sold that Knights will be best 22 or that he will be fit to play. I guess Batch could kick out Newman and Newman kicks Ellis out of midfield. Having said that Ellis played 21 games this year so fair chance he'll play a lot next year.

I guess with the VFL we have our own coach now so Derickx could play first ruck. If we still had Coburg coach I'd put my house on Wood being first ruck.

Either way with the best 22 it's finally an interesting discussion because there is depth rather than the best 22 being obvious like past years.

 

[Stylo]

My point is, I believe we are in a similar situation to Geelong post 06, and a gun inside mid can see us have significant onfield improvements next year. I'm all for drafting either Vlastuin or Garner.

Even though what you're saying is true, Selwood was the exception, not the rule. Very few draftees have an impact like that in year 1. Would be foolish of our recruiting dpt. to bank on it happening next year.

 

[theflea]

I am waiting to be fully convinced the number on goal of the club is to build a successful premiership team. I am going to such lengths because I have been waiting so long for success I am deliberately fighting a protest fight to help ensure Tigers are a little leaner to perform to do the absolute best to put itself in a position for on field and off field success(plus I live outside Victoria) . The rationale is a little tough love makes you stronger and all including the power brokers are answerable to the supporters which should never be forgotten.

So for me the bar is not about making finals necessarily but making decisions and bringing in the best plausible players to the team list which meet the objective of getting us the best team possible on the paddock for RFC at the optimum time(our premiership window) for us to win a premiership. This can be more easily scrutinised and effective as the cattle argument is the number one ingredient for premiership success IMO.

If I am 100% confident the selection criteria is impeccable or close to I will rest easy and get a membership because half the battle will be won. So while my confidence in the Tigers has improved I am not 100% confident. And if they pass on Grundy it will fall away again

i think for the tough love to work the tough lovee must know about it!!

 

[Hello Newman!]

Hello Newman the reason I haven't gone into as much detail as you is I'm gob smacked by your opinion.

If u truly believe he propelled them into finals such was his influence in his first year I think I'm probably fighting a losing battle trying to reason with you.

I challenge you to find a single person on hear who agrees with you?

The funny thing is we both actually agree Vlas is exactly what we need but if you expect him to be the difference in finals or bust you are living in fantasy land.

Yes you haven't gone into detail, or addressed any of the points and several facts I raised in response to your opinions.
I'm really not worried what people here think on this issue as most Richmond supporters couldn't give a stuff about Geelong, their players or their history.
I do value Geelong's coaching staff, players, and other coaches who support my argument which are quoted in one of my previous posts which I got from searching the internet for just a few minutes. I could find more but this is a draft thread after all and we have already gone off topic long enough I think.
If you do want to try to convince yourself your opinion is true, go to the Geelong board and do a poll, or get their views on the issue. I think you will be pretty disappointed with the outcome though.
Cheers

 

[theflea]

My opinion, and it is only an opinion is this:

Vlastuin is a quality player no doubt about it. Do I rate him higher than Grundy, no but what do I know? not as much as some obviously.

However, for me Vlastuin isn't a freak or something out of the box. Best case scenario , being reasonable is Vlastuin is similar rating to Grundy. If this is the case you pick Grundy. Why you pick Grundy is the Buddy Franklin argument versus Bling, mids are a dime a dozen particularly if we can get others later via freeagency etc.. This is what I mean about making sensible decisions. If we end up with a bunch of mids and a great mid comes along we don't take because we already have too many what then. It is about economics, utilising scarce resources. Likewise Grundy you take now because realistically RFC are not going to another opportunity for a player of similar standard and security for the next 8 years and it is a key position

imo this is a flawed argument. your using 20/20 hindsight to support your argument. its not necessarily about key position or not but who you think 'at the time' is going to be the better player. the switch is the 06 draft as i think the hawks would like to swap picks with the cats now.

 

[Hello Newman!]

Even though what you're saying is true, Selwood was the exception, not the rule. Very few draftees have an impact like that in year 1. Would be foolish of our recruiting dpt. to bank on it happening next year.

Agreed. I hope they wouldn't be banking on it. Just my opinion that it could happen with either Vlaustin/Garner seeing as they are similar style players, and would compliment the midfield we already have beautifully

 

[Morro]

Yes you haven't gone into detail, or addressed any of the points and several facts I raised in response to your opinions.
I'm really not worried what people here think on this issue as most Richmond supporters couldn't give a stuff about Geelong, their players or their history.
I do value Geelong's coaching staff, players, and other coaches who support my argument which are quoted in one of my previous posts which I got from searching the internet for just a few minutes. I could find more but this is a draft thread after all and we have already gone off topic long enough I think.
If you do want to try to convince yourself your opinion is true, go to the Geelong board and do a poll, or get their views on the issue. I think you will be pretty disappointed with the outcome though.
Cheers

FYI none of your so called evidence supports your bald statement. Please show me where any of those quotes or anyone on this earth besides you attributes geelongs 2006 success to selwood???

We are not talking contribution. That's not your statement. We are talking responsible for. Please show me such evidence

I'm ok with differing opinions, in fact I welcome it but don't try to pass off such a floored argument as factual.

 

[Stylo]

Obviously due to Melbourne's purported interest in Wines we haven't discussed him much here. However if the dees decide to opt for someone like Menzel instead I wouldn't be surprised to see Wines available at 9... Should we have a look?

 

[theflea]

Isn't that the same thing potential members,anyway the point is they should and I am sure they are aware they need to respect their stakeholders and do the best job which is all you can ask. I don't have a problem if recruiting ad trading gets highlighted as it is very important and controllable more so than the onfield for the off field team. Anyway, little me is insignificant but if they know we care that is only a good thing.

The day the Tiger supporter stops nuking the membership in the microwave is the day RFC loses its character

actually the bloke can eff off. by almeans crack the sads but ringing a radio station and tell everybody? eff me.it makes us all look stupid.

 

[UpTheGuts]

I can't get comfortable on Garner's shoulder. It's chronic and congenital.

He's had it since a kid. I don't see his body as being reliable.

Cue the Judd references.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Reckon we should all do a nearest the pin for the draft. Maybe do a mock first round each plus all 4 of our picks. See who gets luckiest and who is way off.

 

[theflea]

Good for you , for me I can't get to games so it is a bit academic for me so I can get a little philsophical. It is more about ensuring the old reckless ways are avoided cause I am not as patient as I used to be.

Sometimes I get the feeling the selections lack confidence or adventure. I sense conservatism is stopping us picking the best available at times. For example atm their seems to be an unhealthy bias on inside mids for what reason I have no idea. I am not a massive pro ruck fan but for me if Grundy is available you pick him its that obvious and he is that high in terms of the quality. just my opnion. For example I like the way Hawthorn recruit in terms of the players they have selected over the years and some other clubs, I like our selections as well but not all of them . Their seems to be a massive bias on the intangibles like leadership , which for mine when we are talking about kids, is utter madness because leadership for kids is highly dependent on their environment not necessarily the person at that age although values and intelligence/awareness etc.. must be considered. Just want to be sure the Tambling's over Buddy's never happen again let alone Fiora over Pav's. Aside from Griffiths at times for me a little X-factor is missing which needs to be addressed

Would I have selected Arnott no, Dea yes, etc.. and so forth so I think some improvement can be made

no matter how much work you put in there will always be the player that just doesnt make it for whatever reason.the draft is a futures market and it will happen for time immemorial.

 

[_RT_]

Reckon we should all do a nearest the pin for the draft. Maybe do a mock first round each plus all 4 of our picks. See who gets luckiest and who is way off.

Will be setting that up later this week.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Will be setting that up later this week.

As always two steps ahead _RT_

Maybe RFC_Official can chip in with a prize or two

 

[theflea]

Who knows how Garner goes over pre-season. I think he's a different type to Knights. I've got him in as that 3rd tall in the forward line. Not sold that Knights will be best 22 or that he will be fit to play. I guess Batch could kick out Newman and Newman kicks Ellis out of midfield. Having said that Ellis played 21 games this year so fair chance he'll play a lot next year.

I guess with the VFL we have our own coach now so Derickx could play first ruck. If we still had Coburg coach I'd put my house on Wood being first ruck.

Either way with the best 22 it's finally an interesting discussion because there is depth rather than the best 22 being obvious like past years.

totally agree on the depth being better.

 

[Mr Magic]

imo this is a flawed argument. your using 20/20 hindsight to support your argument. its not necessarily about key position or not but who you think 'at the time' is going to be the better player. the switch is the 06 draft as i think the hawks would like to swap picks with the cats now.

Not really, I am talking about the perceived criteria selection in general where there might be misses.

Of course they make blunders, we all do and no one is perfect.

The thing is though looking at Tambling at 4 even Lewis might have been a better selection because the risk like with Oakley Nicholls which wasn't really factored in was the body was a risk due to lightness. Fiora is another case in point.There were real reasons why Tambling might not have been successful at the time and there were real reasons Franklin could have been a success when you consider the height and ability aspects shown and match up issues.

For example picking Martin versus Scully (we had no choice as Martin fell in our lap) was a similar reason to not picking Tambling. Not the bigger bodies of Geelong and Brisbane in the midfield, Judd big etc...

No doubt Vlastuin is being looked at for similar reasons but for me I am not sure he will be a clearance specialist at AFL and I would like him to be a bit more atheletic and quicker to draw my interest for a midfield position

 

[Tigerbob]

I can't get comfortable on Garner's shoulder. It's chronic and congenital.

He's had it since a kid. I don't see his body as being reliable.

Cue the Judd references.

I understand this train of thought and agree with it to an extent. Which is why I would only be happy if he is cleared by the doctors after extensive testing.

The same issues as you say happened with Judd. I remember a recruiter telling me he had shoulders of a 50 year old bricky at the State Screening in which Judd took part.

It's a tough one, if shoulders clear, take him, if there is doubt don't. He has Fyfe like talent though. Everytime I see Fyfe I think gee he would be fantastic for us, well this kid is every bit at the same age, probably more freakier in some things he does.

This is why I love the draft.

 

[theflea]

Not really, I am talking about the perceived criteria selection in general where there might be misses.

Of course they make blunders, we all do and no one is perfect.

The thing is though looking at Tambling at 4 even Lewis might have been a better selection because the risk like with Oakley Nicholls which wasn't really factored in was the body was a risk due to lightness. Fiora is another case in point.There were real reasons why Tambling might not have been successful at the time and there were real reasons Franklin could have been a success when you consider the height and ability aspects shown and match up issues.

For example picking Martin versus Scully (we had no choice as Martin fell in our lap) was a similar reason to not picking Tambling. Not the bigger bodies of Geelong and Brisbane in the midfield, Judd big etc...

No doubt Vlastuin is being looked at for similar reasons but for me I am not sure he will be a clearance specialist at AFL and I would like him to be a bit more atheletic and quicker to draw my interest for a midfield position

this is my whole point. at the time tambling was seen by all as a blue chip investment while buddy wasnt. there were plenty of afl pundits saying tambling was an absolute gun. but as i said for whatever reason he just didnt make it. was it the selection or the development at fault? who knows but i guess im saying your trying to use a previous draft after we know how it went to fwd predict how we should do this years draft when there is so many variables that go into it. as to the vlas or grundy i would take either but if grundy is available i would take him but i dont no shit about and will rely on those that do.

 

[Mr Magic]

actually the bloke can eff off. by almeans crack the sads but ringing a radio station and tell everybody? eff me.it makes us all look stupid.

Actually I don't mind the nutters to an extent (eg.non-violent) they create colour and they make for a more entertaining atmosphere, Put it this way, I would rather look at Martin , Cotch , Lids etc.. play like with Richo and have mad Richmond supporters cheering them on around me than going to a Swans match with a docile johnny come lately placid impotent crowd following the Swans maul

 

[theflea]

Actually I don't mind the nutters to an extent (eg.non-violent) they create colour and they make for a more entertaining atmosphere, Put it this way, I would rather look at Martin , Cotch , Lids etc.. play like with Richo and have mad Richmond supporters cheering them on around me than going to a Swans match with a docile johnny come lately placid impotent crowd following the Swans maul

no thats fine im just talking about the freak that rings up and tells everyone the he's nuking his memberships. as i said it makes us all look like idiots.

 

[Lukey D]

my 2c's. there is no way ATM that garner would be ahead of knights or batchelor in the 22. imo garner and ellis out for these 2. also if we do pick up wood in the rookie draft imo there's no way he should be the 1st ruck instead of derickx. tom d has to be given the best chance to play in the position he was drafted as and thats as a no1 ruck. wood has had plenty of chances at afl level.

King will also be far ahead of Garner (if we were to pick him).

If we get Garner, I have no doubt he will be a player, but he is not going to be a Martin/Conca/Ellis type player who impacts game in his first year. He's still raw and will take a couple years.