2012 draft

[_RT_]

Thats just simply wrong !! why should we have a pre determined 'POLICY' It should automatically be best talent available at our pick - No policy or position should come into it.

Years ago the policy of simply taking the best available regardless of need or position may have cut it but nowadays clubs seem to put a big emphasis on getting players who meet a certain set of criteria and or meet positional needs. For example Brisbane at 8 won't take Grundy because they already have Leuenberger and Longer, but they do need a KPP so they are likely to take one. Same goes for us, we already have Maric and Vickery as our rucks, so why do we need Grundy? I've heard people say its because Maric is nearing the end, the bloke is yet to turn 27 and would easily have 5 years left, so why the massive push to pick Grundy? Is it because posters have got caught up in the hype that Grundy was supposed to go to GWS in the first 3 but has rumoured to have slipped?

If by your admission Grundy is ranked higher , why would we take a lower ranked player - simply because of structural need for the now - thats crazy

I have nothing against the kid & if he is the best at our selection - Fine BUT i just cant see the star/Game breaker/champion in him just looks like a very very good worker that gives his all.
Perhaps not upto Vlastuin's level yet but wouldnt suprise me to find similar players from picks 20-50 that can become extremely good inside extractors

Vlastuin isn't simply a short term structural need, he is long term planning as well. Tuck isn't going to be around forever, IMO, 2 years should just about do it for him. By that time Vlastuin will have built up a tank and would be a ready to go replacement.

IMO Vlastuin and Grundy are level in terms of talent, albeit differnt skill sets, the difference is that Vlastuin fills a bigger need than Grundy that is why I'd take him ahead of Grundy. As I said earlier in the week, I struggle to see where Grundy would play if we picked him up, first ruck is taken as are our KPF spots with Jack and Vickery. I don't see Grundy as a third tall either as he seemingly hasn't had much exposure playing in that role. Why take someone when they are likely to struggle for game time because there are better options already ahead of them? Vlastuin for mine will be able to come in and perform in a role that we need more help in ie midfield rotations.

 

[Mr Magic]

Years ago the policy of simply taking the best available regardless of need or position may have cut it but nowadays clubs seem to put a big emphasis on getting players who meet a certain set of criteria and or meet positional needs. For example Brisbane at 8 won't take Grundy because they already have Leuenberger and Longer, but they do need a KPP so they are likely to take one. Same goes for us, we already have Maric and Vickery as our rucks, so why do we need Grundy? I've heard people say its because Maric is nearing the end, the bloke is yet to turn 27 and would easily have 5 years left, so why the massive push to pick Grundy? Is it because posters have got caught up in the hype that Grundy was supposed to go to GWS in the first 3 but has rumoured to have slipped?


Vlastuin isn't simply a short term structural need, he is long term planning as well. Tuck isn't going to be around forever, IMO, 2 years should just about do it for him. By that time Vlastuin will have built up a tank and would be a ready to go replacement.

IMO Vlastuin and Grundy are level in terms of talent, albeit differnt skill sets, the difference is that Vlastuin fills a bigger need than Grundy that is why I'd take him ahead of Grundy. As I said earlier in the week, I struggle to see where Grundy would play if we picked him up, first ruck is taken as are our KPF spots with Jack and Vickery. I don't see Grundy as a third tall either as he seemingly hasn't had much exposure playing in that role. Why take someone when they are likely to struggle for game time because there are better options already ahead of them? Vlastuin for mine will be able to come in and perform in a role that we need more help in ie midfield rotations.

I am having trouble digesting this.

Firstly the Lions ruck options of Leunberger and Longer have inherently more potential long term than our Ruck combo. Put simply in 6 years we may not have a ruck under status quo and Cotch and co will be squarely in the window.

Secondly if we are saying Grundy is the same level as Vlastuin are we saying Vlastuin is another Dangerfield? because I can't see it atm

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Ah fcuk youse all I want Garner

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

I am having trouble digesting this.

Firstly the Lions ruck options of Leunberger and Longer have inherently more potential long term than our Ruck combo. Put simply in 6 years we may not have a ruck under status quo and Cotch and co will be squarely in the window.

Secondly if we are saying Grundy is the same level as Vlastuin are we saying Vlastuin is another Dangerfield? because I can't see it atm

Dangerfield went at #10.........

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Ah fcuk youse all I want Garner

No fcuk that I want Plowman!

 

[Mr Magic]

Dangerfield went at #10.........

Its not about where they went but perceived comparable abilities. Many 10' and 9's are duds. I don't think Grundy is a dud

 

[Wacky Tiger]

No fcuk that I want Plowman!

Reckon my odds are better than your

 

[THE_GUN]

Ah fcuk youse all I want Garner

Well my personal choices would be
1.Plowman
2.Menzel
3.O'Rourke
4.Grundy
5.Stringer
6.Garlett
7.Vlastuin
8.Lonergan

 

[theflea]

Gun for me is gun in position. I don't demote a player just because they are not in the middle or forward line because you need guns in the backline and forwardline along with the centre to win a premiership and play their roles

that fine you can do it however you like. for me i do it similar but the guns for the cats were scarlett,bartel,ablett,selwood,chapman,stevie j and kelly.

 

[Mr Magic]

that fine you can do it however you like. for me i do it similar but the guns for the cats were scarlett,bartel,ablett,selwood,chapman,stevie j and kelly.

I not going to go through the cats team but, on the surface one might hope Vlastuin is like or comparable to Ling I would have though, surely he is not Bartel standard or even Selwood. My argument when then be what pick did Geelong use to get Lingy.

Grundy for me seems to be a cross between King and S Madden maybe without raising the bar too high

 

[theflea]

I not going to go through the cats team but, on the surface one might hope Vlastuin is like or comparable to Ling I would have though, surely he is not Bartel standard or even Selwood. My argument when then be what pick did Geelong use to get Lingy.

Grundy for me seems to be a cross between King and S Madden maybe without raising the bar too high

this is where you lose me. how can you say he cant get to be a star? nobody knows.he could also be a dud. there are plenty of players from after the top 10 who go on to be stars. i personally, if what the pundits say is true about grundy, by all means pick him as im not against this at all.

 

[Mr Magic]

this is where you lose me. how can you say he cant get to be a star? nobody knows.he could also be a dud. there are plenty of players from after the top 10 who go on to be stars. i personally, if what the pundits say is true about grundy, by all means pick him as im not against this at all.

Well I have looked at Grundy and he looks like a very likely type. I liked him last years and if we had of got him last year great. This year he has really come on again apparently. Apparently he isn't that smart but heh, he is a ruckman as long as he is coachable.

The thing that worries me with Vlas is the atheletics and he was big before so how will he go at AFL level against the guns. I don't know, and I am not pretending I do really, but when I read things like with Quigley saying, kicking a bit iffy, endurance might be problem, not quick , you know when it counts against the best you need every advantage. The other thing others have said or suggested is minimal upside. I don't know but it sounds like there would be better prospects around 9, maybe not 14, but 9ish there probably is another option that provide us with a bigger impact over the longer term particularly in a GF. Just reading the attributes I assess to assess player potential potentially regarding physical caracteristics.

So he can be a star, but it is going to be uphill, he would have to have a hell of a heart to be a star because physically he will not be able to do what Judd and some can do at times. That is okay but can he offer more or the same as other players we can get at 9???

If recruiters say at 9 Vlas can offer the club more in terms of impact than another player compared to other players regardless of position fine pick him. What I mean by that is if Vlas can offer less or the same than a inside mid in the next 4 years we are likely to get(remembering free agency)and if we got Mayes for eg. and we can't get a similar player in the next 4 years ability wise with same positional impact then don't get him. But if Vlas is the bees knees for inside mids and we can get better prospects than Macrae or Mayes or whoever fine , pick up Vlas. It is up to the recruiters really , I am just going on about selection principles I use, who knows what the recruiters will select. To be honest I would be disappointed if we did select Vlastuin because i means certain BF posters have telegraphed it which might compromise us actually getting him if he is indeed the best!

 

[Infamy]

Well I have looked at Grundy and he looks like a very likely type. I liked him last years and if we had of got him last year great. This year he has really come on again apparently. Apparently he isn't that smart but heh, he is a ruckman as long as he is coachable.

He got a TER of 92, not too shabby

 

[guruisatiger]

FYI - Quigley reckons its a close call as to whether Whitfield deserves #1 ahead of Grundy...

Just saying

who the **** is quigley and what makes him such a so called expert does he have a track record of success at the draft is he an afl recruiter does he get phantom drafts correct year after year ???

 

[Mr Magic]

He got a TER of 92, not too shabby

good enough for me, so someone is spinning BS

 

[_RT_]

Well I have looked at Grundy and he looks like a very likely type. I liked him last years and if we had of got him last year great. This year he has really come on again apparently. Apparently he isn't that smart but heh, he is a ruckman as long as he is coachable.

The thing that worries me with Vlas is the atheletics and he was big before so how will he go at AFL level against the guns. I don't know, and I am not pretending I do really, but when I read things like with Quigley saying, kicking a bit iffy, endurance might be problem, not quick , you know when it counts against the best you need every advantage. The other thing others have said or suggested is minimal upside. I don't know but it sounds like there would be better prospects around 9, maybe not 14, but 9ish there probably is another option that provide us with a bigger impact over the longer term particularly in a GF. Just reading the attributes I assess to assess player potential potentially regarding physical caracteristics

Sam Mitchell isn't fast and his kicking isn't that great yet if we had the chance we'd sign him tomorrow. Jobe Watson is the same, slowish, ordinary kick and again we'd be all over him if he was on the market. Vlastuin is a ball winner and a very good user of it when he gets it. His endurance is pretty good as well running a 13.2 beep test at combine despite being below full fitness. He lands at Richmond we won't be sorry.

 

[MR]

Menzel sounds a very special player M_R. whitfield must also be exceptional to go @ one or would you rate Menzel ahead of him ?

I think that if Menzel didn't have any injury problems he would be dead set pick 1. That's how high I rate him. However, not taking anything away from Whitfield, he will be elite too.

 

[MR]

I'm so glad to see how many have jumped on the Vlastuin train.

 

[Mr Magic]

Sam Mitchell isn't fast and his kicking isn't that great yet if we had the chance we'd sign him tomorrow. Jobe Watson is the same, slowish, ordinary kick and again we'd be all over him if he was on the market. Vlastuin is a ball winner and a very good user of it when he gets it. His endurance is pretty good as well running a 13.2 beep test at combine despite being below full fitness. He lands at Richmond we won't be sorry.

I wouldn't get Mitchell- too old, Watson is younger but oldish too , 28 next year , too old,

Look someone is using some license on the descriptions because Quigley doesn't seem to think Vlas kicks like Mitchell who I regard his dual side as a strength.

I would be using second round picks to get Mitchell types and first round picks to get Stevie J, Goodes, Judds etc... to be honest

 

[purrrrrrrrrrfect]

I am having trouble digesting this.

Firstly the Lions ruck options of Leunberger and Longer have inherently more potential long term than our Ruck combo. Put simply in 6 years we may not have a ruck under status quo and Cotch and co will be squarely in the window.

Secondly if we are saying Grundy is the same level as Vlastuin are we saying Vlastuin is another Dangerfield? because I can't see it atm

In 6 YRS we could have the best dam midfield & then poach a ruckman. Look at it this way, u can use a pick, a spot on your list & the next 4 yrs on the list developing that ruck or do you use that same list position to churn & burn through another 5/6 players looking to beef up midfield/defence etc. During that 6 yrs you mention we may pick up the next Cox/Sandilands (as rookie mid you). In 6 yrs the whole role of the ruckman may be entirely diff to what it is today. For mine you play the percentages. Unless you're desperate for a ruckman I would draft the best available (usually mids) & build the team to the best competitive beast u can & then look at filling specialist positions such as a ruck when it is time

 

[tigs2010]

FYI - Quigley reckons its a close call as to whether Whitfield deserves #1 ahead of Grundy...

Just saying

No offence UTG and none to Quigley who always does a great analysis of the draftees with more detail than anyone else but most of his viewing comes from the Champs each year. Where as FJ watches every game for 3 years. I know whose opinion I'll be backing on draft day.

 

[tigs2010]

Why don't people say Vlastuin is top 5 talent who has slipped due to injury/circumstances??

Been saying it for 2 days straight.

 

[THE_GUN]

Sam Mitchell isn't fast and his kicking isn't that great yet if we had the chance we'd sign him tomorrow. Jobe Watson is the same, slowish, ordinary kick and again we'd be all over him if he was on the market. Vlastuin is a ball winner and a very good user of it when he gets it. His endurance is pretty good as well running a 13.2 beep test at combine despite being below full fitness. He lands at Richmond we won't be sorry.

Why was he below full fitness ? These kids run Beep tests 2-3 times a year what was his usual test ranking
also what was his 20mtr times , I have tried to find them but not much luck

His standing verticle leap is 70cm which isnt too bad but his pace and endurance is what worries me most, Plus his kicking is just average needs a bit of work.

 

[tigs2010]

I'm so glad to see how many have jumped on the Vlastuin train.

But he's rated 15-20. FFS must go best available!!

 

[tigs2010]

Why was he below full fitness ? These kids run Beep tests 2-3 times a year what was his usual test ranking
also what was his 20mtr times , I have tried to find them but not much luck

His standing verticle leap is 70cm which isnt too bad but his pace and endurance is what worries me most, Plus his kicking is just average needs a bit of work.

Been stated nearly every post on Vlastuin and in particular by RT that he has been injured this year.