2012 draft

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Pure talent & ability wise we have players like
Menzel,Stringer,Grundy,Whitfield,Toumpas,Plowman,Wines,McCrae,Garlett,O'Rourke.


Best Pick = Best available Talent

Agree...but that doesn't mean you totally ignor risk. Menzel and Stringer both had severe injuries that 'could' mean they never reach their full potential at AFL level.

Garlett is a risk which most know about.

Whitfield, Toumpass could be crossed out as certainties to not be there. And not sure why McCrae you have as a 'must take', but he is rated by many as top 20 I guess, and some top 10.

That leaves from your 10, with injury and behaviour risks taken into account, IMO Grundy, Plowman, Wines, O'Rourke. Plowman a backman and we are more likely to take a mid/ruck??, so Wines, Grundy or O'Rourke. As you don't rate Vlastuin, I guess most would agree with you, if one of those 3 are available, we pounce. No doubt the 3 risk players I mentioned could all become elite players, but I think we need one or two more really good mids to make finals, and next year maybe take a punt on a high risk 'star'.

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Wow - So the Blues could of had
Cotchin,Rioli,Kennedy,Scott selwood instead of Judd

Ha. Case study 1 for "chasing the big fish".

 

[MR]

Likely if others are gone or likely a front runner?

Front runner unless someone unexpected slides.

hey MR if at pick 9 both vlaustin and wines are available which one would u pick and why would be interested in tigerbobs and tigs view as well cheers guys

I'd prefer Vlastuin. I think he has a much better outside game, elite leadership and also the capability of playing in defence. That said, Wines is an inside specialist and marginally better than Nick in that department, he will also step-in and provide better immediate football than Nick too.

Vlastuin is a better contested-mark and probably a better decision maker. Thing I like about Nick is that he often likes to give the ball off to the better users, which is a trait which Jackson desperately needs. Wines went at 64% DE at the Champs, so I'm not convinced of his ball-usage.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agree...but that doesn't mean you totally ignor risk. Menzel and Stringer both had severe injuries that 'could' mean they never reach their full potential at AFL level.

Garlett is a risk which most know about.

Whitfield, Toumpass could be crossed out as certainties to not be there. And not sure why McCrae you have as a 'must take', but he is rated by many as top 20 I guess, and some top 10.

That leaves from your 10, with injury and behaviour risks taken into account, IMO Grundy, Plowman, Wines, O'Rourke. Plowman a backman and we are more likely to take a mid/ruck??, so Wines, Grundy or O'Rourke. As you don't rate Vlastuin, I guess most would agree with you, if one of those 3 are available, we pounce. No doubt the 3 risk players I mentioned could all become elite players, but I think we need one or two more really good mids to make finals, and next year maybe take a punt on a high risk 'star'.

Not saying i dont rate him, Just that i dont really see Vlastuin as a player that would become a game changer,star,or a elite player more your consistant reliable veg and potato's type of player (a tuck with better skills)

Just dont think we should be investing a top 10 pick on these types, I want a Dangerfield,Rioli,Martin,Pendlebury with our top 10 selection.

If our pick was around 18-25 would be very happy with a player like Vlastuin,But for #9 - I want a star

 

[MR]

Not saying i dont rate him, Just that i dont really see Vlastuin as a player that would become a game changer,star,or a elite player more your consistant reliable veg and potato's type of player (a tuck with better skills)

Just dont think we should be investing a top 10 pick on these types, I want a Dangerfield,Rioli,Martin,Pendlebury with our top 10 selection.

If our pick was around 18-25 would be very happy with a player like Vlastuin,But for #9 - I want a star

What you don't seem to understand is that you can have all the Pendleburys, the Riolis that you could ask for, but it will never prosper to its full extent unless you have your vanilla types feeding them the ball. I'll use the example of Coll v Syd. The Sydney onballers completely thrashed Collingwood. However, the Pies had Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom, Thomas, all the class and match winners that you could want. With Jarryd Blair acting as their only proper inside midfielder up against Kennedy, ROK, Bolton, Jack, they were completely belted.

Yes, you can pick up these types of players using lower picks, but for every Kennedy and Mitchell taken at a late pick, there are hundreds of players who are delisted in their first or second seasons. We have the match-winners too, Martin, Cotchin, Deledio and soon Conca will be huge together. I'd rather get the vanilla type who will provide elite work rather than an unreliable hopeful at 32/34/43. As I've mentioned before, if Tuck retired tomorrow, we'd have Jackson, Helbig and Arnot as our stocks for pure inside midfielders. I can state right now, that that is the worst in the entire AFL. It's not only a desperate need, but Vlastuin is also extremely talented.

Vlastuin is a safe choice, and you seem to have a problem with that. He will provide the same output as most of us expect him too.

 

[_RT_]

As much as I liked Dreamboat Stafford, that was an awful trade. Gave up pick 17 in a superdraft for a bloke who had three years left. Pick 17 ended up as James Kelly, who's still playing great footy 11 years later.

Understand that but I was just pointing out that the rucks that we have targeted in trading were still useful players.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Picks 8-11

2008-Vickery, Ziebell, Davis, Sidebottom
2009-Butcher, Moore, Melksham,Gysberts
2010-Heppell, Prestia,Gorringe, Lynch
2011-Longer, Tomlinson, Sumner, Greene

Could you tell me of these, are/will be a star?

 

[MR]

Picks 8-11

2008-Vickery, Ziebell, Davis, Sidebottom
2009-Butcher, Moore, Melksham,Gysberts (If he can get his kicking straight)
2010-Heppell, Prestia,Gorringe, Lynch
2011-Longer, Tomlinson, Sumner, Greene

Could you tell me of these, are/will be a star?

A quarter of them I have bolded. However, what you have overlooked is that in this draft, 2-15 is incredibly even. So it's kind of hard to say that pick 4 is automatically a better player than pick 9 in this year's pool.

 

[THE_GUN]

What you don't seem to understand is that you can have all the Pendleburys, the Riolis that you could ask for, but it will never prosper to its full extent unless you have your vanilla types feeding them the ball. I'll use the example of Coll v Syd. The Sydney onballers completely thrashed Collingwood. However, the Pies had Pendlebury, Swan, Beams, Sidebottom, Thomas, all the class and match winners that you could want. With Jarryd Blair acting as their only proper inside midfielder up against Kennedy, ROK, Bolton, Jack, they were completely belted.

Yes, you can pick up these types of players using lower picks, but for every Kennedy and Mitchell taken at a late pick, there are hundreds of players who are delisted in their first or second seasons. We have the match-winners too, Martin, Cotchin, Deledio and soon Conca will be huge together. I'd rather get the vanilla type who will provide elite work rather than an unreliable hopeful at 32/34/43. As I've mentioned before, if Tuck retired tomorrow, we'd have Jackson, Helbig and Arnot as our stocks for pure inside midfielders. I can state right now, that that is the worst in the entire AFL. It's not only a desperate need, but Vlastuin is also extremely talented.

Vlastuin is a safe choice, and you seem to have a problem with that. He will provide the same output as most of us expect him too.

I fully understand where you are coming from MR and accept your argument BUT the fact remains you MUST use your best selections on best available talent and Vlastuin is Im sorry to say NOT the best talent available at #9 in this draft.
The Vanilla types you mentioned are players like Ellis,Conca,Helbig,Dea,Arnot,Verrier and add in another 3 more with our later selections (which we cant expect the cream stars realistically) then we have enough of these players already on the list and also Tuck,Jackson,Newman will all be around for another 2 years and thats another 6 selections to accumulate the Workers for our team.

Top picks always should be used on top talent irrespective of position types

 

[MR]

I fully understand where you are coming from MR and accept your argument BUT the fact remains you MUST use your best selections on best available talent and Vlastuin is Im sorry to say NOT the best talent available at #9 in this draft.
The Vanilla types you mentioned are players like Ellis,Conca,Helbig,Dea,Arnot,Verrier and add in another 3 more with our later selections (which we cant expect the cream stars realistically) then we have enough of these players already on the list and also Tuck,Jackson,Newman will all be around for another 2 years and thats another 6 selections to accumulate the Workers for our team.

Top picks always should be used on top talent irrespective of position types

I agree completely with the bolded and in terms of talent, I only have 6 in front of Vlastuin. There's a very good reason why Vlastuin was touted as pick 2 at the beginning of the year. In terms of the vanilla types that you have listed. Ellis is seen strictly outside, Dea and Verrier will stay in defence and Conca is seen as more than just a 'feeder.' Which leaves us with Helbig and Arnot, which is quite terrible.

I'd like to ask you, how much have you seen of Vlastuin this year? If you have seen as much as I have, then you'll know the talent and mind is there. Athletically he has much to work on, but the talent is glaring. One incident has stuck with me when he was playing for the Knights, the opposition eludes me currently, but there was a huge tussle for the ball on HB/Wing area. Vlastuin simply barged in, knocking a few players over in the process, picked up the ball seamlessly and kicked it perfectly on his non-preferred to a player open on the opposite wing. He has a firm grasp on how contested football is to be played and he simply wills himself to get the ball. I personally think that if we can completely bring out that aspect of his game, he will be unstoppable.

 

[tigs2010]

Martin_Riewoldt are u saying we will take lonergan over Vlastuin?

 

[TJTIGER]

Many have talked about either best available or drafting for need like they are mutually exclusive. But what if we do both with Vlas. That is go for the best available for our needs ? Not sure Im saying what I mean exactly. Just putting it out there.

 

[MR]

Martin_Riewoldt are u saying we will take lonergan over Vlastuin?

To be honest, all I heard was basically what I passed on to here. I was told that Lonergan seems likely to come to the Tigers. Perhaps that coincides with the rumours that Vlastuin will be a Lion.

 

[THE_GUN]

I agree completely with the bolded and in terms of talent, I only have 6 in front of Vlastuin. There's a very good reason why Vlastuin was touted as pick 2 at the beginning of the year. In terms of the vanilla types that you have listed. Ellis is seen strictly outside, Dea and Verrier will stay in defence and Conca is seen as more than just a 'feeder.' Which leaves us with Helbig and Arnot, which is quite terrible.Whilst i do agree with you that we do need more inside mids, I believe that we should be looking at later picks to get them- there will be quality available at these selections and the next 2 years also.

I'd like to ask you, how much have you seen of Vlastuin this year? - I have only watched Nick in 2 metro games but im not doubting his talent just our need for such a player at #9
If you have seen as much as I have, - I dont get to watch anywhere near the amount of junior football as i would like and never doubted your opinion or your view of Nick MR.

then you'll know the talent and mind is there. Athletically he has much to work on, (sometimes you just cant change certain things and with nick he will never be a pacey type of player no matter how much is worked on)
but the talent is glaring. One incident has stuck with me when he was playing for the Knights, the opposition eludes me currently, but there was a huge tussle for the ball on HB/Wing area. Vlastuin simply barged in, knocking a few players over in the process, picked up the ball seamlessly and kicked it perfectly on his non-preferred to a player open on the opposite wing. He has a firm grasp on how contested football is to be played and he simply wills himself to get the ball. I personally think that if we can completely bring out that aspect of his game, he will be unstoppable.

Look at the end of the day we all want whats best for our club, My biggest worry is that our recruiters are playing the safe card a little too much with Conca,Ellis and now Vlastuin if you get what i mean

 

[Riskingheadandshin]

Look at the end of the day we all want whats best for our club, My biggest worry is that our recruiters are playing the safe card a little too much with Conca,Ellis and now Vlastuin if you get what i mean

I tend to think they are drafting a solid, reliable, quality character of kid for which the club can consolidate on. Would take these any day of the week over a flashy type that might turn 2 or 3 games, but goes missing in plenty more.
I don't think it's a real worry GUN, especially when it comes to decisions we have made in the past!

 

[UpTheGuts]

To be honest, all I heard was basically what I passed on to here. I was told that Lonergan seems likely to come to the Tigers. Perhaps that coincides with the rumours that Vlastuin will be a Lion.

Grundy/ Vlas at 9 and Lonergan at 32 will be acceptable

 

[Harmichael]

Taking Lonergan at 9 would demonstrate sheer incompetence on RFC's part.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Taking Lonergan at 9 would demonstrate sheer incompetence on RFC's part.

In your opinion

 

[tigs2010]

Why?

Taking Lonergan at 9 would demonstrate sheer incompetence on RFC's part.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

i know very little about the talent on offer but just wondering if some of the people on our board who are clearly very knowledgeable regarding the draft could let me know this: if Vlastuin is such a great selection, how come those outside our club seem to rate him a lot less? Emma quayle has him at 15th best talent in the draft, and many phantom drafts that have us getting wines, grundy or someone other than Vlastuin have him slipping to 15-20.

Does our club rate him higher than others? Do we Overrate him or simply rate him correctly? Is it a matter of him being more suited to our club or what we desire?

 

[blaisee]

As much as I liked Dreamboat Stafford, that was an awful trade. Gave up pick 17 in a superdraft for a bloke who had three years left. Pick 17 ended up as James Kelly, who's still playing great footy 11 years later.

true

these days however with free agency he wouldnt cost a thing

 

[Harmichael]

In your opinion

Why?

Sorry mixed him up with Corr, this whole thing's doing my head in.

Though having said that not sure we should be using a top 10 pick on a player from a Division 2 state unless they're an absolute standout/undeniable freak, when there's similar types from Division 1 states around them. (yes there've been exceptions but it's more often the rule than not)

 

[Stylo]

i know very little about the talent on offer but just wondering if some of the people on our board who are clearly very knowledgeable regarding the draft could let me know this: if Vlastuin is such a great selection, how come those outside our club seem to rate him a lot less? Emma quayle has him at 15th best talent in the draft, and many phantom drafts that have us getting wines, grundy or someone other than Vlastuin have him slipping to 15-20.

Does our club rate him higher than others? Do we Overrate him or simply rate him correctly? Is it a matter of him being more suited to our club or what we desire?

9 is only 4 picks away from where Quayle rates him if you take Daniher and Viney into account.

 

[Ramper]

I am amazed that Sam Mayes seems to have fallen off our radar altogether. If Grundy wasnt there at 9 and Mayes was their I'd be calling out his name faster than anything. You cant beat class and Mayes has it. X Factor for me equals class. We need a class player.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Taking Lonergan at 9 would demonstrate sheer incompetence on RFC's part.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2012/10/04/363142_sport-news.html

Whilst I'm not necessarily saying he's my first choice he did test extremely well at the draft combine and a bit like Vlaustin had an injury interrupted season maybe shielding him from the spotlight.

Shifter Sheehan has him as a draft certainty and possible elite midfielder.

I'll Back the club in whichever way they go