2012 draft

[Tigerbob]

Shane Nelson?

I rated him very highly last season. He is a worthy draft pick. Definitely in the same mould.

 

[_RT_]

Watching the GF yesterday and then thinking about how Hardwick has tried to mould this team I come to the conclusion that we're trying to get a side that is a mixture of Hawthorn and Sydney.

The parts of the Hawks game that we wanted is the good kicking skills that help maintain possession of the footy when we have it and the great zone press that they have used.

From Sydney the part we want is the intense tackling and contested ball winning ability, i.e. when its your turn to go its your turn to go.

That is why when I have looked at potential draftees I've looked for player who not only have great skills but are also more than capable of winning their own footy. You can never have too many of these types in your side, afterall finals footy is all about being able to stand up under intense pressure, something that we've shown that we're not able to do. Hopefully we'll recruit players who can stand up to that so that in the coming years we will be better prepared.

 

[Tigerbob]

As important as Jetta was yesterday, the Swans simply dazzled with tackling pressure. Efficiency was much higher too.
I'd say Vlastuin's stocks rose during the GF.

Yep definitely. I'd say it's more a mindset and coaching thing, they are just well structured are the Swans.

I think we need both types and either Vlastuin or Garlett would make us better. Simply on rankings I have Garlett higher. Sometimes you fall for a kid and it clouds your judgement so this week along with the Draft Combine I will watch Vlas tapes to forge a deeper opinion on his game. Currently have him at number 13 but he had an injury interrupted season and want to watch some end of season games of him where I am told he got back to better fitness.

I think we as a team need to look at Sydney and adapt that mindset. We have talent but that way of playing is down to coaching and attitude. Guys like Jack, Hannebery, Kennedy were later draft picks not first rounders but coaching and development have made them into guns. We can do that too with the likes of Arnott, Conca, Helbig, Ellis etc. We will get another gun at 9 to add to that, no reason the player at pick 29 or 31 can't either.

I'll support either way we go, I just believe getting class and pace into our line up in Garlett would be great for us. I maintain we are too once paced, to get some difference like Sydney done when they went out and drafted not only Jetta but Gary Rohan knowing they needed to change the dynamic, I think it's what we need. As I said, picking early take the guy you rate higher. We need to get the best talent into the club. So if the club rate Vlastuin higher take him, my argument is I rate Garlett higher. It's subjective and we will get a gun regardless.

 

[TJTIGER]

Watching the GF yesterday and then thinking about how Hardwick has tried to mould this team I come to the conclusion that we're trying to get a side that is a mixture of Hawthorn and Sydney.

The parts of the Hawks game that we wanted is the good kicking skills that help maintain possession of the footy when we have it and the great zone press that they have used.

From Sydney the part we want is the intense tackling and contested ball winning ability, i.e. when its your turn to go its your turn to go.

That is why when I have looked at potential draftees I've looked for player who not only have great skills but are also more than capable of winning their own footy. You can never have too many of these types in your side, afterall finals footy is all about being able to stand up under intense pressure, something that we've shown that we're not able to do. Hopefully we'll recruit players who can stand up to that so that in the coming years we will be better prepared.

Absolutely agree RT, I was thinking along a very similar line.

 

[TJTIGER]

Yep definitely. I'd say it's more a mindset and coaching thing, they are just well structured are the Swans.

I think we need both types and either Vlastuin or Garlett would make us better. Simply on rankings I have Garlett higher. Sometimes you fall for a kid and it clouds your judgement so this week along with the Draft Combine I will watch Vlas tapes to forge a deeper opinion on his game. Currently have him at number 13 but he had an injury interrupted season and want to watch some end of season games of him where I am told he got back to better fitness.

I think we as a team need to look at Sydney and adapt that mindset. We have talent but that way of playing is down to coaching and attitude. Guys like Jack, Hannebery, Kennedy were later draft picks not first rounders but coaching and development have made them into guns. We can do that too with the likes of Arnott, Conca, Helbig, Ellis etc. We will get another gun at 9 to add to that, no reason the player at pick 29 or 31 can't either.

I'll support either way we go, I just believe getting class and pace into our line up in Garlett would be great for us. I maintain we are too once paced, to get some difference like Sydney done when they went out and drafted not only Jetta but Gary Rohan knowing they needed to change the dynamic, I think it's what we need. As I said, picking early take the guy you rate higher. We need to get the best talent into the club. So if the club rate Vlastuin higher take him, my argument is I rate Garlett higher. It's subjective and we will get a gun regardless.

I agree with what your saying TB, but I would add that we will (should) recruit players who as much as possible will be able to stand up to AFL week after week and consistently contribute rather than have fade outs or irregular weeks. As was mentioned guys like Jack, hannebery, Kennedy. Later draft picks but rock solid week after week best example of this (I'd suggest these are higher on Dimma's wish list than any other type , but I'm only guessing).

 

[Tigerbob]

I agree with what your saying TB, but I would add that we will (should) recruit players who as much as possible will be able to stand up to AFL week after week and consistently contribute rather than have fade outs or irregular weeks. As was mentioned guys like Jack, hannebery, Kennedy. Later draft picks but rock solid week after week best example of this (I'd suggest these are higher on Dimma's wish list than any other type , but I'm only guessing).

Of course. Garlett can stand up. No reason he can't?

As I said, it is about development and that culture Sydney have that we are developing. Lewis Jetta you would think would never handle that pressure when he was even 20 years old. That was when he was drafted don't forget. But the Swans developed him into standing up in that game yesterday. As much as tackling and pressure won it from the Swans yesterday, I thought Jetta's was influential from the small stats he had and definitely stood up.

The thing with the Swans its about their culture and structures. They turn players who no one else wants into vital players.

 

[THE_GUN]

If pick #9 comes along and both Vlastuin & Garlett are still on the table and its between the 2 , I would go Garlett.

We are getting too Vanilla in our make up with alot of similar type's , The work horses we can find with 29/31 as its a pretty good draft for mids but Cream like Garlett isnt always there - Bloody Troy Taylor would of been ideal for our make up.

Also need another Tall KPD/Ruck if Grundy doesnt fall to #9 which we wont pass up, I would really like McBean - He would just improve our structure so much going foward

 

[MR]

we have grunt richmond has always had grunt dont forget we still have helbig and arnott both ( injured ) who love body contact, what we always lack is class which garlett has in spades and will set the G on fire.pick 9 garlett for me im with u bob.

You can't honestly go out and say we don't need grunt because we have two players, one which hasn't even played a game, the other who has played 15 games and hasn't proved that he can be atleast a B grade midfielder. Hey! Let's forget about Chaplin because we have Darrou.

 

[tigs2010]

If pick #9 comes along and both Vlastuin & Garlett are still on the table and its between the 2 , I would go Garlett.

We are getting too Vanilla in our make up with alot of similar type's , The work horses we can find with 29/31 as its a pretty good draft for mids but Cream like Garlett isnt always there - Bloody Troy Taylor would of been ideal for our make up.

Also need another Tall KPD/Ruck if Grundy doesnt fall to #9 which we wont pass up, I would really like McBean - He would just improve our structure so much going foward

McBean will go first round from what I've been told.

 

[THE_GUN]

McBean will go first round from what I've been told.

Really hope he is 1 of the players that slide due to quality mids available !

 

[tigs2010]

Really hope he is 1 of the players that slide due to quality mids available !

IMO it would be more likely the opposite. Someone will reach because of lack of talls and think they can grab a quality mid later.

 

[bigstyletiger]

I'm not sure about the vanilla perception of our midfield. Martin, Cotchin and Deledio have x factor. Yesterday's game was won by a side that went harder. ROK, Sewell and Hannebry were the top 3 players on the ground. Kennedy was good too. I think our recruiters will look to make sure we have enough of these types before we use first rounders on x factor.

 

[THE_GUN]

IMO it would be more likely the opposite. Someone will reach because of lack of talls and think they can grab a quality mid later.

If he was more a KPF i would agree but i believe he is more suited down back and usually backmen are taken a little lower unless they are standouts, But what i like about McBean is his height being both a good prospect for both 2nd Ruck & Extremely tall defender thats very mobile and good pace that can play on the resting rucks as well as big fowards.

 

[tigs2010]

If he was more a KPF i would agree but i believe he is more suited down back and usually backmen are taken a little lower unless they are standouts, But what i like about McBean is his height being both a good prospect for both 2nd Ruck & Extremely tall defender thats very mobile and good pace that can play on the resting rucks as well as big fowards.

Jackson Trengove plays a similar role and went at 22? due to injuries. He's taller than him and more skilled IMO but probably lacks that agression. He's versatile and you could play him forward, back or ruck so I think he will be highly sought after because of this. His downside is he's going to take 4/5 years to put on enough weight.

 

[Tigerbob]

I'm not sure about the vanilla perception of our midfield. Martin, Cotchin and Deledio have x factor. Yesterday's game was won by a side that went harder. ROK, Sewell and Hannebry were the top 3 players on the ground. Kennedy was good too. I think our recruiters will look to make sure we have enough of these types before we use first rounders on x factor.

Vanilla is the wrong word and it may have been me that said it. I think we are too one paced. No doubt your right, we need to add to the players in the midfield, to me we have no player like Garlett but as you say, we have Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Tuck, Foley. Vlastuin adds to that and is of very high quality, great leader too so that goes a long way for us in terms of need. No doubt will be a solid selection and one no one should complain about. When Kinnear Beatson too over he had a clear mindset that needed to change for them. But all said and done we need to have the same development and culture of Sydney. That is what won yesterdays game.

 

[THE_GUN]

Jackson Trengove plays a similar role and went at 22? due to injuries. He's taller than him and more skilled IMO but probably lacks that agression. He's versatile and you could play him forward, back or ruck so I think he will be highly sought after because of this. His downside is he's going to take 4/5 years to put on enough weight.

I Remember when Jackson Trengove was Drafted and i was infront of the tv praying he last to our selection
Once he was gone my hope was we would take Shaun McKernan but we selected Jayden Post

I dont believe that McBean is as highly rated this year as Trengove was the year he was take, Trengove was touted as a top 10 selection if he wasnt injured.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Watching the GF yesterday and then thinking about how Hardwick has tried to mould this team I come to the conclusion that we're trying to get a side that is a mixture of Hawthorn and Sydney.

The parts of the Hawks game that we wanted is the good kicking skills that help maintain possession of the footy when we have it and the great zone press that they have used.

From Sydney the part we want is the intense tackling and contested ball winning ability, i.e. when its your turn to go its your turn to go.

That is why when I have looked at potential draftees I've looked for player who not only have great skills but are also more than capable of winning their own footy. You can never have too many of these types in your side, afterall finals footy is all about being able to stand up under intense pressure, something that we've shown that we're not able to do. Hopefully we'll recruit players who can stand up to that so that in the coming years we will be better prepared.

Got to agree RT especially the contested footy part an in particular when the heat is on . We've got a few that are highly rated that would have crumbled badly in footy like yesterday that we need to move on and make the most of their overrating .

 

[theflea]

You can't honestly go out and say we don't need grunt because we have two players, one which hasn't even played a game, the other who has played 15 games and hasn't proved that he can be atleast a B grade midfielder. Hey! Let's forget about Chaplin because we have Darrou.

plus the fact that tuck will retire soon and foley is injury prone.

 

[theflea]

Vanilla is the wrong word and it may have been me that said it. I think we are too one paced. No doubt your right, we need to add to the players in the midfield, to me we have no player like Garlett but as you say, we have Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Conca, Ellis, Tuck, Foley. Vlastuin adds to that and is of very high quality, great leader too so that goes a long way for us in terms of need. No doubt will be a solid selection and one no one should complain about. When Kinnear Beatson too over he had a clear mindset that needed to change for them. But all said and done we need to have the same development and culture of Sydney. That is what won yesterdays game.

i personally think the references to jetta being the diff between speed and no speed is wrong. jetta is an anomaly and is unlikely to have a peer in speed(rohan?). so bearing this in mind i think we are not 1 paced at all. if anything i think our speed is pretty good actually. foley,lids for genuine sustained speed, cotch and martin for burst from the mids. add to that morris,houli are pretty quick. so while more speed would be great by no means are we imo 1 paced at all.

 

[MR]

i personally think the references to jetta being the diff between speed and no speed is wrong. jetta is an anomaly and is unlikely to have a peer in speed(rohan?). so bearing this in mind i think we are not 1 paced at all. if anything i think our speed is pretty good actually. foley,lids for genuine sustained speed, cotch and martin for burst from the mids. add to that morris,houli are pretty quick. so while more speed would be great by no means are we imo 1 paced at all.

+1.

Edwards is also very fast and is probably our best endurance athlete.

Just because we don't have someone of elite pace doesn't mean that we are not going to challenge. Someone like Garlett would be very handy and would improve our side immensely, but no more than a player like Vlastuin.

As I have said countless times, it was the inside-midfielders that won Sydney their premiership, the 'vanilla' types if you will, not Jetta. We aren't a slow side, we like to chip it around a lot, and when we find space we punish the opposition,

 

[Tigerbob]

What if the guy with elite pace is a better player? This doesn't come down to type it comes down to who is the better player and talent. As stated a thousand times, everyone has different opinions on the matter of whom is the better player, my opinion is Garlett is better than Vlastuin. The clubs is Vlastuin is better than Garlett. Fair enough, happy to back them on this.

I do agree with you though, we aren't slow, but we do not have that point of difference. Sydney went out to get that point of difference with Rohan and Jetta.

Interesting to note that Sydney got belted in the clearances, so as much as people are saying the inside midfielders won the game is simply not true. They had the better structures and had more winners all over the ground. They have this unique culture and that is what got them over the line yesterday. All of their types helped contribute to their win. Not just the vanilla types, the inside ball winners. We want to copy a trend from yesterday? Copy their culture.

 

[Ramper]

In alot of ways I agree with Bob and his one paced theory. Conca and Ellis were good selections but neither has great leg speed over the ground. Anyway from my end and I am no expert by any stretch this is how I rate the players taking into consideration that the likes of Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy will not be available to us at number 9.

At 9 my first preference is Mayes but if he isnt available I think the club will select Vlastuin and go down the same road they have over the last couple of drafts. A safe and secure selection and Vlastuin will play 150 games+. I also have O'Rourke in the mix for us but his injury history is a concern. So at 9 - Mayes, Vlastuin or O'Rourke any of the 3 will be a good result on paper for us. I also like Kennedy but I dont think we'll pick him now. I like Garlett but our recent history with the aboriginal boys hasnt been great in terms of developing them. I think we will pass on Garlett because they will be afraid of not making the selection work.

At our second selection and third selections things get harder because a number of players will have been selected. I like Broomhead. Have for a long time. I also like Colquhoun. I expect Josh Simpson to have been taken by now but if hes available at this area then that would be a good result for us. An outsider for mine and someone not often talked about for us at these picks is a young kid from SA called Harley Montgomery. I think he will be a very good player.

Beneath that I wouldnt be surprised to see us taking afew experienced VFL or state league players to get bigger or more mature bodies onto the list that can make a contribution earlier than later.

Thats my take on what I have seen.

 

[Ramper]

In alot of ways I agree with Bob and his one paced theory. Conca and Ellis were good selections but neither has great leg speed over the ground. Anyway from my end and I am no expert by any stretch this is how I rate the players taking into consideration that the likes of Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy will not be available to us at number 9.

At 9 my first preference is Mayes but if he isnt available I think the club will select Vlastuin and go down the same road they have over the last couple of drafts. A safe and secure selection and Vlastuin will play 150 games+. I also have O'Rourke in the mix for us but his injury history is a concern. So at 9 - Mayes, Vlastuin or O'Rourke any of the 3 will be a good result on paper for us. I also like Kennedy but I dont think we'll pick him now. I like Garlett but our recent history with the aboriginal boys hasnt been great in terms of developing them. I think we will pass on Garlett because they will be afraid of not making the selection work.

At our second selection and third selections things get harder because a number of players will have been selected. I like Broomhead. Have for a long time. I also like Colquhoun. I expect Josh Simpson to have been taken by now but if hes available at this area then that would be a good result for us. An outsider for mine and someone not often talked about for us at these picks is a young kid from SA called Harley Montgomery. I think he will be a very good player.

Beneath that I wouldnt be surprised to see us taking afew experienced VFL or state league players to get bigger or more mature bodies onto the list that can make a contribution earlier than later.

Thats my take on what I have seen.

I forgot to add the other player who I forgot to mention was Graham who may also be around the 29-31 mark for us in the national draft.

So for me the best result works out something like

Mayes or O'Rourke or Vlastuin at pick 9
Broomhead or Colquhoun or Simpson or Graham at 29 and 31
Montgomery at 50
State League Players beyond 50

 

[CotchIsKing]

For mine

I wouldn't like to be choosing between Whitfield and Toumpas at the top. Both look very, very good. O'Rourke also looks very accomplished. Hard to see Grundy getting through to selection 9 but would be hard not to go with him if he is still there.

Outside those 4, I really like the look of Wines. He has a great attack on the ball with outside capability, a big tank and an ability to give multiple efforts. His movement reminds me of Nick Delsanto but I see he has better disposal and 2 sides. Vlaustin also looks very capable with good vision and decision making to go with his strong tackling and distribution skills but only seeing him play from defense it is hard to align him as a midfielder. From what I have seen and what I think we need I would take Wines ahead of Vlaustin if the decision was mine.

Too many others and I haven't seen enough however one other comment I would make is Hrovat is one I am also keen on, even with one of our second rounders if required. We just need more quality players and he is one. Finds the ball, can distribute with poise. Agree it would be nice if he was closer to high 170's than low but for me is still worth the selection.

 

[MR]

What are peoples thoughts on Macrae? Hardly been talked about here and will go around the 3-10 area.