2012 draft

[Dustin Credible]

Can't see Grundy lasting until 9. Would be a great get for us.

 

[Slattery_20]

Grundy sounds too good to pass on at 9 IMHO.

If you were passing on him to get one of the best 3-4 midfielders, maybe think about it. But you'd snap him up, mad not to. Even if it means you might have a surplus 3-4 years down the track, you can (almost always) get a good trade done for a ruck (see Brisbane with Clark)

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Grundy sounds too good to pass on at 9 IMHO.

If you were passing on him to get one of the best 3-4 midfielders, maybe think about it. But you'd snap him up, mad not to. Even if it means you might have a surplus 3-4 years down the track, you can (almost always) get a good trade done for a ruck (see Brisbane with Clark)

Thats the issue I'd have in taking a ruckman with our first pick, although highly touted of those who are suggesting he is ready made, most are suggesting that is " ready made to play some games ", IIRC our last 3 first round draft picks have played every game they have been available for since joining the club and contributed.
Our 2008 pick #8 was Vickery, who IMO although playing almost every game available has often got games on the back of development.
We wait 3-4 years and we have missed 3-4 years to cash in on the prime years of our stars ,Lids, Cotchin, Foley, Dusty , Jack.
I see more gain in taking the best mid available and leaving gaining ruckmen via trading, when they are proven.

 

[Slattery_20]

I don't see any of that as a any more of a risk than any other type of player.

I see more gain in taking the best mid available and leaving gaining ruckmen via trading, when they are proven.

What if they're a genuinely, clearly better player?
ie NicNat v Hill, who do you take... pass on the freak for the "best available" midfielder, even though they might not be much better than those available in the 2nd round ??

 

[Stylo]

My opinion is constantly changing on this but as of now I want Garlett, Membrey and Graham with our first 3 picks. Hrovat and Lee would be good also.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

I don't see any of that as a any more of a risk than any other type of player.


What if they're a genuinely, clearly better player?
ie NicNat v Hill, who do you take... pass on the freak for the "best available" midfielder, even though they might not be much better than those available in the 2nd round ??

TBH, in our situation I'd prefer we take Rich , a inside, because despite all the fanfare over his offensive game and highlights he is providing , NicNat is extremely inconsistant and often is poor defensively, granted does make the occasional run down.
But to date I think Rich has been the better player , if we add a player like Rich next year and the talls we have in the system come on as is normally the case for talls around that 21-22 mark, we'll be top 6 comfortably in 2013.

 

[UpTheGuts]

TBH, in our situation I'd prefer we take Rich , a inside, because despite all the fanfare over his offensive game and highlights he is providing , NicNat is extremely inconsistant and often is poor defensively, granted does make the occasional run down.
But to date I think Rich has been the better player , if we add a player like Rich next year and the talls we have in the system come on as is normally the case for talls around that 21-22 mark, we'll be top 6 comfortably in 2013.

Jeepers, I'd be pretty keen to have NicNat. Can't agree with you there at all, RP. I think he's very consistent too, for what is it a 3-4 year player? Stunning year
Ivan has been wonderful, but some real dynamism coming through in the (second) ruck would be a massive help. Not sure Elton will become that player, but agility in a really big bloke would be ideal.

TD looked like it for a while. I'd be OK holding him for another year.

 

[Slattery_20]

OK. I disagree by about a million miles and I won't even really bother going any further. I suppose you think Boyd & Swan had great years?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

OK. I disagree by about a million miles and I won't even really bother going any further. I suppose you think Boyd & Swan had great years?

No I don't actually, but I do think Zeibell, Sidebottom and Shuey have all had better careers to date than Tyronne Vickery, who incidentally was the last ruckman we took with a first round pick, #8, coincidentally 1 ahead of our pick this year.

 

[Slattery_20]

Can you only judge on "better careers to date"?

There was a point (2 years in) when Kreuzer had done more than Cotchin.
In that case, at that point, who would you take? 99.9% of people would say, the clearly better player - Cotchin.

In the case of Rich/Hill/Shuey/Sidebottom/Ziebell vs NicNat, who would you take? As always... the clearly better player - NicNat.

Brock friggen McLean had done more, 2 years in, than Buddy.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Can you only judge on "better careers to date"?

There was a point (2 years in) when Kreuzer had done more than Cotchin.
In that case, at that point, who would you take? 99.9% of people would say, the clearly better player - Cotchin.

In the case of Rich/Hill/Shuey/Sidebottom/Ziebell vs NicNat, who would you take? As always... the clearly better player - NicNat.

Brock friggen McLean had done more, 2 years in, than Buddy.

If you read above Slatts you'll see that I don't want to use our first pick on a ruckman because they take so long to develop and would prefer to draft players who can have a more immediate impact and fully utilize playes like jack , foley , cotch, lids dusty in their prime .
With this in mind no I wouldn't take NicNat , over Sheuy , Zeibell, Rich or Sidebottom , given where Richmond is at this point .
Nic Nat has the benefit ATM of playing against opposing sides 2nd best ruckman and often after Cox has destroyed both physically and mentally , we already have front line midfielders Cotchin , Martin , Lids who can go forward and comfortable beat their opponent one on one .
There comes a time when you have to trust what has been put in place and if we don't find a player to be a KPF in the next 12 months , out of Post , Griffith , Astbury or Elton we are unlikely to ever develop one and should just head to the trade table . Which leaves Vickery to continue on developing as a forward / 2nd ruckman .
Although our ruck stocks may be shallow we have a greater need for midfield depth IMO .

 

[Slattery_20]

With this in mind no I wouldn't take NicNat , over Sheuy , Zeibell, Rich or Sidebottom , given where Richmond is at this point .

OK. I can't say I even see where you're coming from, but OK.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Don't do it to yourself Slats.

 

[tigs2010]

If Grundy was there at 9 I'd snap him up and fall off my seat laughing as I could snap up a couple of quality mids later and into future drafts not having to worry about a no.1 ruckman for 12 years. Maric for next 3-4 years or so with Grundy as 2nd ruck and then Grundy just takes over. In the meantime Vickery can develop purely as a forward.

 

[CHIMP MAGNET]

you and nearly everyone else tigs2010

 

[UpTheGuts]

Thoughts on Plowman actually having midfield capacity? I know he's discussed, invariably, as a KPD, but he's 191 and has as his assets a good reading of the play and high mobility.
Pendles is 190 I think.

Just a thought in GF week.

 

[tigs2010]

For me I feel we need the following:
1 A-Grade midfielder - best bet is to use pick 9 in the draft or trade it for Tyson along with something else.
1 Back-Up ruck - almost impossible to trade for this type. Best bet is to rookie a mature-ager around 22/23
1 Developing ruck - rookie list a promising 18 year old ruck who has some tools but needs a few years development where he can play 3rds and work his way up.
1 KPD - I think it's pretty obvious we are going to use Free Agency to fill this hole with Chaplin and should tick this need off pretty quickly.
1 CHF - I think we need one who is ready to go. So a state-league is our best bet IMO. Someone with good size and workrate.
1 Small forward - have to go to the draft for this. Would like one that can go into the midfield and pinch hit there similar to Edwards but maybe with some more speed and better kicking skills.
1 Medium forward - ideally they'd be able to play midfield too and maybe the Post for Karnezis rumour is true. Otherwise I think it's hit the draft. Knights I guess sort of fits in this category but I'd classify him more as midfield depth.
Midfield depth - use our pick 29/31 on some more midfield depth. May get another A-grader out of this you just never know and even though I said 1 A-grade midfielder I'd be ok with getting 2 or 3. Once picking up a back up ruck and developing ruck I'd fill the list with state league midfielders. Plus we are getting Gideon Simon as a midfielder/small forward as well. (Not sure if he takes up a list spot either?) Then we have Free Agency to pick up Knights as well. Maybe 5 players need to fit this category.

FREE AGENCY

Chris Knights - Adds to our midfield depth as well as being able to play as that medium forward. Not sold on him being best 22 but an injury to say a Grigg and he could find himself in the side on a wing.

Troy Chaplin - Gives us our plug and play KPD that we need to add in order not to fall apart if Grimes goes down. Also gives us the option of sending Griff forward or giving him the necessary time to develop.

TRADE WEEK

Matt Thomas - seems we are keen and he would certainly add to our midfield depth. Would chuck them a token pick (pick 68ish) or a player swap. Doubt they are all that keen to keep him and may do a Morton trade with us as we do have a rather good history with them.

Pat Karnezis - still trying to find out who came up with the rumour last night on SEN but a straight swap for Post would be fine with me. Maybe a swap of late picks. Post would get good game time for Brisbane and they could end up with a solid player if they could give him a spot to make his own rather than throwing around everywhere like we have. We get a medium forward that we need who can pinch hit in the middle. Not sold he will make it and could be a bust but worth a try.

NATIONAL DRAFT

Pick 9 - Jonathan O'Rourke (183cm/74kg - Midfielder) - With guys like MacRae bolting up the order I'm starting to get excited that this guy may be there at pick 9. Also feel that Mason Shaw will probably go before our pick to someone like Brisbane as I think he is underrated in the East and he is a big game player. (Also, come on GC bid on Viney) O'Rourke gives us our potential A-grade midfielder. Quick, clean, skilful but having come back from injury this year probably hasn't had as good a year as he would like so he could last. Needs to pack on some muscle to improve his ball-winning.

Pick 29 - Josh Simpson (183cm/72kg - Midfielder/Forward) - People will laugh at this but I think this is his potential spot to be picked. Been very inconsistent this year which is a shame because he is super-talented but I feel outside Stringer this kid will be the big slider. If he puts it together he could be an A-grader but he has a long, long way to go to find that sort of consistency. Would like Nick Graham but think he will rise up the rankings and go top 20 and Membrey's finals will push him up there as well. Otherwise I'd grab these 2 over Simpson.

Pick 31 - Tim Broomhead (182cm/73kg - Midfielder/Forward) - A guy I didn't pay much attention to early but he is a very good, consistent player. Has neat skills and some speed. May not reach heights greater than a 2nd tier midfielder but feel he is a low risk/solid citizen who can play midfield or forward. Think he could end up our Brandon Ellis level player who goes forward. Could go first round but there are probably higher potential guys who will go before him. I see his career panning out similar to a Sidebottom in that he will start as a HFF with stints in the middle before becoming a full-time mid.

Pick 50 - Marvin Warrell (182cm/70kg - Small Forward/Midfielder) - Indigenous kid from WA who I've talked up before as an exciting small forward. Really good leap, skills, speed, defensive pressure and goal sense. Could very well last to a rookie pick but I feel this kid is a big game player which I must ask how often do you see that in a small forward? Has a real ability to push up into the midfield and win the footy and was the leading disposal winner and BOG in the WAFL Colts Grand Final with 23 possessions, 7 inside 50's and 3 goals. Super damaging player.

ROOKIE DRAFT

Justin Hardy (196cm/97kg - KPF) - Big-bodied CHF from Central Districts. Has earnt himself a state screening invite. This has been his first year as a KPF and I think won the SANFL version of the Coleman. Is a really good size and would compliment the smaller Jack and the super tall Vickery.

Jack Hannath (200cm/100kg - Ruck) - Mature age ruck also from Central Districts. He's 22 from memory and really stepped up this year and would be a handy back up ruck if we aren't going to rookie list big Browney.

Mack Byron-Pendergast (Ruck) - 18 year old promising ruckman. Averaging close to 20 H/O a game but not getting much ball at this stage.

Myke Cook (Midfielder) - State League midfielder from Sandringham. Ex-Adelaide and having a promising season in the VFL.

Mitch Clisby (HBF/Midfielder) - damaging defender from North Adelaide. Super talented and at 23 is ready to go.

Shane Valenti (Midfielder) - Only small but proved when on Melbourne's list he can rack up the ball. As the last pick in the rookie draft I feel we could pick him up as he is ready to go and we aren't likely to pick up a better kid at pick 60+ in a rookie draft.

 

[theflea]

The fact they were allowed to trade the mini draft picks for more picks is the worst thing. They should have been forced to use them on players. This team has shown time and time again that they will use every underhanded appraoch to get what they want and i loath them for it, almost as bad as Essendon.

GC while getting similar concessions have not abused the system in a similar fashion.

the mini draft plus the AMOUNT of 17y/o's plus the additional un contracted's is bad enough. but to then add the natural draft selections with poor finishes at the bottom of the ladder is just over the top.

 

[Dr Tigris]

The thing if Grundy is still there is that it solves a major problem. We get a 10 year ruck to take over from the Mullet, and the Ivan both protects him as a youngster and teaches him how to play the ruck in the AFL. Then later on we don't have to trade for a good ruck, and we free up a list spot or two. Would be amazing. And TV gets to also work with him, adding protection as well - although Grundy is already bigger.
But, he won't be there at pick 9.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

The thing if Grundy is still there is that it solves a major problem. We get a 10 year ruck to take over from the Mullet, and the Ivan both protects him as a youngster and teaches him how to play the ruck in the AFL. Then later on we don't have to trade for a good ruck, and we free up a list spot or two. Would be amazing. And TV gets to also work with him, adding protection as well - although Grundy is already bigger.
But, he won't be there at pick 9.

I agree that Grundy appears likely to solve a area of concern from 2017-2024 . Years 4-10 of his career , however If we pick up a mid with pick 9 , you'd hope they are going to have a immediate impact , which with our list I'd prefer .
I certainly appreciate I may be on my own here but it's about trying to get as many of our players as possible peaking near the same time . Ideally our talls like , Jack, Vickery , Post , Griffith , Astbury , Grimes , Rance and ro a lesser extent Elton, will start to flourish next year . As Dusty , Cotch , Conca , Batchellor , Helbig and Ellis continue to improve whilst Lids , Ivan , Edwards , Jackson are still within their prime and before Tuck and Newy retire.

 

[UpTheGuts]

O'Rourke loves his Tiges, FWIW

 

[Tigez 4 Life]

O'Rourke loves his Tiges, FWIW

i wonder if we can offload to upgrade our first pick for better chance to pick him up, is what Essendon have been doing, drafting kids that have been supporting them all their lives that is.

 

[MR]

i wonder if we can offload to upgrade our first pick for better chance to pick him up, is what Essendon have been doing, drafting kids that have been supporting them all their lives that is.

He could still land with us. Just because Knightmare has him at 3 doesn't mean he'll got that early. Most Phantoms have him going at 8+. We are a big chance to get him and has been unfairly neglected in this thread..

 

[_DBF_]

He could still land with us. Just because Knightmare has him at 3 doesn't mean he'll got that early. Most Phantoms have him going at 8+. We are a big chance to get him and has been unfairly neglected in this thread..

****, would be good.

 

[ize_]

Is probably my fav just ahead of Mayes. If one of those two were available we'll be laughing our heads off.