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2012 draft

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You are both spot on.

This isn't about being inside or outside, this is about who I rate more. Which is Garlett. As I said, only Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy I rate more and he is closing on Grundy.

Some will differ, like your good self MR. This is what it is all about. Every club will have different people working for them, therefore different opinions and rating systems. Some will be like me and have Garlett in the top 5, some won't. It is why the draft is so interesting and has such a following.

How fast is Garlett? I have seen him rip through the centre of Patterson Stadium, probably not as quick as Jetta but not too far behind. His game is slightly different from Jetta's so you don't see it as much, but his agility and quick step movements are tremendous. In terms of pace, I liken him more to Rioli pace.

The Combine will be interesting also. Cannot wait.
 
Tigerbob said:
Is Vlas fully fit as yet, do you know? Would be great to see how he actually tests fully fit. Been carrying a couple of niggles this season.
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Vlastuin's last game was just over a month ago, so I think 6 weeks will be plenty of time for recovery. In that game he picked up 29 possessions, kicked 2 goals, took 9 marks and laid 12 tackles. If he wasn't fully fit then, then he'll be an absolute beast when he is.
 

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Tigerbob said:
All fair enough. Those 3 contested possessions and clearance would have come from the third quarter where he went in the middle. I would of assumed more watching the game, but if they are the stats they are the stats. There can be no doubt his move to the middle changed the game along with Martin and to a lesser extent Simpson. That's what I was watching. Also his influence at Kardinia Park in the game against Country where he was clearly WA's best on ground I would have assumed more in that game alone.

Yep, we would be screwed with no Tuck or Foley, but we can recruit those types anywhere is my thinking, those two were Pick 73 off memory and Rookie draft hey? Match winners are generally taken early.

Anyway, it's a good discussion point and would be exactly the debates raging in the recruiting department. I am confident in our guys. Conca, Ellis and Vlastuin as the first round draft picks is very solid, safe selections that all will work out and not be busts.

I enjoy the difference of opinion, it always opens the mind to new thinking.
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bob is it fair to say alot of the players that make it from deep in the draft have really defied the odds? as much as fans tell us about recruiters with great records most of the late picks just dont make it. i guess im saying when you say we can get those inside mids later in the draft, the deeper we go the more likey those picks will probably wont make it. thoughts?
 
Martin_Riewoldt said:
Vlastuin's last game was just over a month ago, so I think 6 weeks will be plenty of time for recovery. In that game he picked up 29 possessions, kicked 2 goals, took 9 marks and laid 12 tackles. If he wasn't fully fit then, then he'll be an absolute beast when he is.
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sold. he laid more tackles than half our team. if there is 1 thing we need to do better next year and thats effing tackling.
 
Tigerbob said:
You are both spot on.

This isn't about being inside or outside, this is about who I rate more. Which is Garlett. As I said, only Whitfield, Toumpas and Grundy I rate more and he is closing on Grundy.

Some will differ, like your good self MR. This is what it is all about. Every club will have different people working for them, therefore different opinions and rating systems. Some will be like me and have Garlett in the top 5, some won't. It is why the draft is so interesting and has such a following.

How fast is Garlett? I have seen him rip through the centre of Patterson Stadium, probably not as quick as Jetta but not too far behind. His game is slightly different from Jetta's so you don't see it as much, but his agility and quick step movements are tremendous. In terms of pace, I liken him more to Rioli pace.

The Combine will be interesting also. Cannot wait.
Click to expand...

this could actually help us. others might pull the trigger before us and we get the player we really want.
 
Afl site has the National Champ games guys.

theflea said:
bob is it fair to say alot of the players that make it from deep in the draft have really defied the odds? as much as fans tell us about recruiters with great records most of the late picks just dont make it. i guess im saying when you say we can get those inside mids later in the draft, the deeper we go the more likey those picks will probably wont make it. thoughts?
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Of course. The later you pick the less percentage you have of getting a player who will become an AFL quality player. The point is you need to pick guys with good fundamentals and good character the later you draft. Foley was a star at Under 18 level but was in the draft when the athlete was fashionable. Ditto the same applies to Sam Mitchell. Both were terrific footballers, had all the fundamentals spot on, great characters.

I still think that type you can get later in the draft. Guys who dominate their level of football, have all the fundamentals you want but recruiters don't think they are quick enough or tall enough or whatever. Happens every year.

Ben Ross is a guy who dominated VFL this year, looking for a second chance as he was delisted by North. On the small side etc but knows how to get the football and knows how to play, good character etc. I would snap him up in the rookie draft if he was there as we wont have late picks I assume due to Free Agents and our want to hold onto some average players. Plenty of others like that you will find later who have more of a chance at making it.

Find this years Foley or Mitchell who gets it 35 times a week, uses it well, has great Footy nous, good character. Amazingly they will be overlooked die to height, speed or athletic traits. I wonder where Nathan Hrovat will go this year. Should be top 25. For some reason gets left out of discussions.
 
theflea said:
this could actually help us. others might pull the trigger before us and we get the player we really want.
Click to expand...

Well yeah of course. Recruiters rank players differently. Of course. We had Conca in our top 4 where others had him around top 20 even. We saw something that was better than others. By the sound of it we are desperately keen on Vlastuin. Everyone will rank him different. We may think he is top 5 others top 20. So when we call his name out at Pick 9 some will look at us like wtf but be happy cause it leaves a guy they rate higher on the board. Clubs have different reasons for drafting guys. We have a certain policy which I respect. We rule out guys with iffy characters early so we may have Garlett at say pick 16 in our rankings. Others like me have him at Pick 4.

This is the beauty of the draft.
 
Tigerbob said:
Find this years Foley or Mitchell who gets it 35 times a week, uses it well, has great Footy nous, good character. Amazingly they will be overlooked die to height, speed or athletic traits. I wonder where Nathan Hrovat will go this year. Should be top 25. For some reason gets left out of discussions.
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Depends on what Hrovat officially measures in at. If it's 173cm he could be a rookie or minimum pick 50 onwards. He's a gun but history says 173cm and not quick means you won't go early.
 
Wouldn't be against taking Hrovat with one of our 2nd rounders. Valstuin, Graham and Hrovat would be a great haul.
 
Tigerbob said:
Afl site has the National Champ games guys.



Of course. The later you pick the less percentage you have of getting a player who will become an AFL quality player. The point is you need to pick guys with good fundamentals and good character the later you draft. Foley was a star at Under 18 level but was in the draft when the athlete was fashionable. Ditto the same applies to Sam Mitchell. Both were terrific footballers, had all the fundamentals spot on, great characters.

I still think that type you can get later in the draft. Guys who dominate their level of football, have all the fundamentals you want but recruiters don't think they are quick enough or tall enough or whatever. Happens every year.

Ben Ross is a guy who dominated VFL this year, looking for a second chance as he was delisted by North. On the small side etc but knows how to get the football and knows how to play, good character etc. I would snap him up in the rookie draft if he was there as we wont have late picks I assume due to Free Agents and our want to hold onto some average players. Plenty of others like that you will find later who have more of a chance at making it.

Find this years Foley or Mitchell who gets it 35 times a week, uses it well, has great Footy nous, good character. Amazingly they will be overlooked die to height, speed or athletic traits. I wonder where Nathan Hrovat will go this year. Should be top 25. For some reason gets left out of discussions.
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agree with all that which means our development program under choco needs to kick goals right now.
 

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Tigerbob said:
Well yeah of course. Recruiters rank players differently. Of course. We had Conca in our top 4 where others had him around top 20 even. We saw something that was better than others. By the sound of it we are desperately keen on Vlastuin. Everyone will rank him different. We may think he is top 5 others top 20. So when we call his name out at Pick 9 some will look at us like wtf but be happy cause it leaves a guy they rate higher on the board. Clubs have different reasons for drafting guys. We have a certain policy which I respect. We rule out guys with iffy characters early so we may have Garlett at say pick 16 in our rankings. Others like me have him at Pick 4.

This is the beauty of the draft.
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yes agree. was just stating the obvious.
 
Hmm, I'm still note sure whether we should take three mids with our first three picks.

I like the prospect of taking Vlastuin + Graham/Broomhead/Towers

I'd also like to have a look at taking another KPP. Our best 22 stocks are good, the likes of Riewoldt Vickery Rance Griffiths Grimes all have the potential to be A-grade level if not already. However, under them, we have McGuane, Astbury, Elton, Derickx. Not really much quality depth there. The acquisition of Chaplin will really help, but we need to look at long-term too.

Elton and Astbury are young, so still have time, but we need more than just two. I hope Clurey/Smith/Membrey drop to our pick.
 
Watching Vic Met vs WA, we'd be nuts not to take Simpson if he fell to 29, looks like he'll be a jet
 

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Martin_Riewoldt said:
Hmm, I'm still note sure whether we should take three mids with our first three picks.

I like the prospect of taking Vlastuin + Graham/Broomhead/Towers

I'd also like to have a look at taking another KPP. Our best 22 stocks are good, the likes of Riewoldt Vickery Rance Griffiths Grimes all have the potential to be A-grade level if not already. However, under them, we have McGuane, Astbury, Elton, Derickx. Not really much quality depth there. The acquisition of Chaplin will really help, but we need to look at long-term too.

Elton and Astbury are young, so still have time, but we need more than just two. I hope Clurey/Smith/Membrey drop to our pick.
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Got to agree MR , the more I hear and look at the likely scenario's , I am starting to like more and more the idea of chasing Jacobs , especially if we don't have to give up one of our first two picks , but rather a player like Nahas .
IMO , it would allow us to pick up a tall with our second pick and possibly a good KPP like Clurey / Membrey , who may last that long .
If we where able to land Wines /Vlastuin , Clurey / Membrey and Jacobs I'd be wrapped , it would also allow to use a later pick on a prospective ruckman .
 
/
Martin_Riewoldt said:
Hmm, I'm still note sure whether we should take three mids with our first three picks.

I like the prospect of taking Vlastuin + Graham/Broomhead/Towers

I'd also like to have a look at taking another KPP. Our best 22 stocks are good, the likes of Riewoldt Vickery Rance Griffiths Grimes all have the potential to be A-grade level if not already. However, under them, we have McGuane, Astbury, Elton, Derickx. Not really much quality depth there. The acquisition of Chaplin will really help, but we need to look at long-term too.

Elton and Astbury are young, so still have time, but we need more than just two. I hope Clurey/Smith/Membrey drop to our pick.
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if the rumours are right and we do trade nahas for pick 24, and trade 31 for jacobs, if we could get vlastuin at 9, graham at 24 and simpson at 29 that would be excellent.

I think we would be better served getting a mature aged tall or someone who could develop with our later picks, if we could land 3 good mids we would be flying
 
Tigerbob said:
Find this years Foley or Mitchell who gets it 35 times a week, uses it well, has great Footy nous, good character. Amazingly they will be overlooked die to height, speed or athletic traits. I wonder where Nathan Hrovat will go this year. Should be top 25. For some reason gets left out of discussions.
Click to expand...

Shane Nelson?
 
bananatigz said:
/

if the rumours are right and we do trade nahas for pick 24, and trade 31 for jacobs, if we could get vlastuin at 9, graham at 24 and simpson at 29 that would be excellent.

I think we would be better served getting a mature aged tall or someone who could develop with our later picks, if we could land 3 good mids we would be flying
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If we can add Jacobs , Knights , use our first rounder on mid and look at someone like Valenti , IMO we can afford to use our second on a tall . To pick up 4 midfielders in one off season who can instantly play would be a significant bonus , and despite our current lack of depth , I think 4 mids plus the expected development of Arnott , Helbig , Conca and Ellis we'd be well suited .
 
Martin_Riewoldt said:
I'm not going straight out and saying that Garlett can't develop an inside game, because he does have the biggest fundamental covered where he does not shirk contests. However, he has surely not shown his inside capabilities yet. Going to that game you highlighted, WA v VM, he had 3 contested possessions, 1 clearance and 0 tackles for the whole game. He actually averaged 1.4 tackles for the whole championships. He had 6 one percenters from rounds 2-5 of championships (Can't find round 1 stats.) Vlastuin had 7 in one game against VC.

Again, I completely acknowledge his pace and freakish ability. I think he will be an absolute beauty. We do need a player like him but we have much greater concerns currently. I have a few on-field issues with Garlett, the off-field stuff doesn't concern me, we desperately need grunt. If Tuck and Foley are both out of the side we will be in huge trouble.
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we have grunt richmond has always had grunt dont forget we still have helbig and arnott both ( injured ) who love body contact, what we always lack is class which garlett has in spades and will set the G on fire.pick 9 garlett for me im with u bob.
 
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