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2012 draft

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Harmichael said:
Haha I just edited my post to add that he'd want to have one almighty leap!
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Haha the old sneaky edit. Yer his leap is huge. Last pick in the rookie draft would be worth it as a project. Tbh rather try something like that with our last list spot than pick broken down Petterd whose body I think is done. Just hope that if we do take him we give him a solid 3-4 years to develop because he will take at least that long. Give it one game before someone calls for his head on this board. :D
 
tigs2010 said:
Haha the old sneaky edit. Yer his leap is huge. Last pick in the rookie draft would be worth it as a project. Tbh rather try something like that with our last list spot than pick broken down Petterd whose body I think is done. Just hope that if we do take him we give him a solid 3-4 years to develop because he will take at least that long. Give it one game before someone calls for his head on this board. :D
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Now you put it that way - wouldn't be agin it - aren't we also looking at taking one of the big yanks for an I.R. spot?
 
Mr Magic said:
maybe he can redefine the ruck rover role like goodes, :D who knows rookie him?
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Seems we are only team to interview him we could probably take him with our last rookie pick.

Harmichael said:
Now you put it that way - wouldn't be agin it - aren't we also looking at taking one of the big yanks for an I.R. spot?
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We were having a look. Not sure what came of it. From memory it was Yannick Crowder.
 

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purrrrrrrrrrfect said:
I beg to disagree. I think it easier to cover\recruit the ruckman down the track rather than say the quality mid (e.g Essendon) or KPF (Carlton). What if its 2 quality mids u need against that 1 ruckman? There was a reason Geelong & Collingwood gave away such high picks (In Collingwoods case twice). It's because their teams were complete & the ruckman was the final piece in the puzzle. U reckon we couldnt snag say McEvoy in a few yrs when we are top 4 & the saints have dropped right off? Or that young ruckman coming through a Bulldogs or Melb for example after they've spent a few developing him for us (like geelong did with us). We will pay but by then it shouldnt matter as we would be trading away our pick/picks for a flag.
Now try & prize that key fwd or quality mid from another team, when they are probably the respective clubs highest player, being the face of the club & having the weight of the entire fan base as their next savior...
In saying that, If the club believes Grundy be the best available talent then I'll back em in
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Agree. Theres pretty much a formula too, based on immediate impact and development too.

From what we have all seen, yes, rucks are important but building a strong dominate midfield is more for a flag. Trading for ruck man seems a but easier than adding a pendurbury in when close to getting one.

Thought, of the last few premiers and gfinalist, I would say most choose the above route to build and develop a midfield. Did any draft and develop their own ruck man from scratch? I can think of Mumford, Canadian dude, hale, jolly, wood, ottens...

Obviously in the perfect world you would develop everything, but as a zero sum game, sometimes you have to choose the best tactic with the choices you have.
 
DoItForCaptBlood said:
These two are not in the draft and can only be taken in the free agency period starting after the draft. So we would have to pass on the picks and keep spots open. I assume if we are only interested in them as rookies we can take one or both there if we are happy assuming/risking everyone will be looking elsewhere.
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I was using the picks to illustrate the players we could take.
 
living_in_syd said:
Agree. Theres pretty much a formula too, based on immediate impact and development too.

From what we have all seen, yes, rucks are important but building a strong dominate midfield is more for a flag. Trading for ruck man seems a but easier than adding a pendurbury in when close to getting one.

Thought, of the last few premiers and gfinalist, I would say most choose the above route to build and develop a midfield. Did any draft and develop their own ruck man from scratch? I can think of Mumford, Canadian dude, hale, jolly, wood, ottens...

Obviously in the perfect world you would develop everything, but as a zero sum game, sometimes you have to choose the best tactic with the choices you have.
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Counter argument is never follow the sheep. Could it be the strategic bias is the reverse now and Grundy's GF impact far greater than the ruckman of the last GF, ruck rule changes etc..
 
The more likely option is Grundy doesn't get to us at 9. If Port take him we also need to think about who they will let go for next year ruck wise. Might be a value pick for Tigers next year.

Gotta say, the only rucks in the draft I would be interested in is Grundy types at 9. Anything else at any other pick as a ruck option avoid in the draft unless you could pick up a value ruck in the 80's before a GF (i know won't happen but saints were lucky). Call me crazy:D but apart from a Grundy option I would go international Pike style and chase the Allir Allir options seeking diamonds in the rough Cox style. Won't be too long before some 200cm+ guy with an african background will call NN his bitch and dominate the game. The trick is finding them

If Grundy gone I wold look at McCrae, just reckon he can bring it, I like the way he moves, what he offers and the left foot is a bonus, then Vlastuin.

If Plowman slid I would seriously look at him. Actually I would take him after Grundy.

Changed my mind again:D . Just read an article 'Mayes still amazes'. Given finding a S Johnson and Chapman are more important than mids, Rucks etc.. and what Mayes has in terms of kicking, height, work ethic, endurance and speed, geez he would have to be on par with plowman in my rankings. Have seen a little vision of him as wasn't expecting a slide, nice mover.

The way this is going if we get 1 of Grundy, Mayes or Mccrae at 9 I will be very happy assuming Plowman at 3. Backstop Vlastuin is good enough
 
tigs2010 said:
Vlastuin isn't just a workmanlike player though. He may not be flashy type but he's classy in the sense he's a great user of the ball by both hand and foot. The fact he has the workmanlike traits is an added bonus. Interesting you put Wines in the class & talent category over Vlastuin. Out of the 5 you have there I'd take Grundy over Vlastuin on what he would ensure for our side for the next 10-12 years. (succession plan of Maric to Grundy with no worries about having to find a ruckman later down the track) Plowman I'd be 50/50 over and we'd want to be sure he can transition into a midfielder. Wines no thanks. He's Vlastuin without the kicking. O'Rourke doesn't have that pure ball-winning in close that Vlastuin has when he plays midfield, though he is an elite user so he is tempting. Won't be available so doesn't really matter.

I don't get the knock on Vlastuin that people have with this he's pretty much a hard nut plodder. Is it because Knightmare had him 15-20 in his mock draft most of the year? At the beginning of the year he had him at 2 behind Whitfield. Would be interesting if Knightmare had kept him at 2 all year I reckon everyone would be jizzing over getting Vlastuin to the club. As a player comparison Knightmare has him compared to Michael Voss. Chris has him compared to Luke Hodge. He may never reach those heights but he certainly has the ball-winning, skills and leadership to pave a great career in his own right and we will look back in 10 years and be comparing future top picks making comparisons and calling them the next Nick Vlastuin.

If he hadn't of been injured and forced to play HBF we wouldn't be a chance of getting him IMO. The bonus to him playing HBF this year is he has added that versatility to his game and become a dual position player.

Athletically people knock him but not knowing how he tested and just watching him play he's an absolute bull, strong as an ox. His leap looks better than average. Not saying he's ever going to be a guy who can take hangers but watching him defend he can always get up over the top to get a punch in. Endurance wise, again no idea how he tested but he seems to be able to get himself to contest after contest and go all day. Speed wise, he's no Lewis Jetta but he's not a complete plodder. I'd say he has ok pace which is well and truly good enough for an inside mid role. I'd say he'd be a fair bit quicker than Tuck, Jackson, Sewell and all those types.

If I was Melbourne and I was picking for needs at pick 4 (which they appear to be doing) I'd be going Vlastuin over Wines every day of the week. They want tough ball winners which they both are, they also need guys who can use the footy and hit targets. Vlastuin ticks that box comfortably over Wines for mine. They are also short of leaders at that club. Again Vlastuin has him covered and would be captain of that club in no time.
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What a speech......COME ON VLASTUIN
 

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tigs2010 said:
:D Was getting frustrated with practically reading he's crap every couple of posts. :p
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I think you underestimate the hurt that so many feel after passing on talented big blokes.
They may be wrong about Vlastuin, and Grundy, for that matter. But I think the anxiety it is understandable.

Pav
Buddy
Clark

6 days
 
UpTheGuts said:
If we do get Vlastuin, Wright and Atkins, then surely we go for a bigger bloke at 43?

I am still hoping we find, and like, Boston there though.
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I have a feeling outside of probably needing another ruck we are at the stage we need to see if the kids sink or swim. If we keep recruiting more talls it's going to end up like this years ruck situation and some will need to play at 3rds level. We were already crowded for talls.

I want a small/medium forward who can break a game open. Atkins has the ability to be that but I like him more as a midfielder. Warrell/Sumner/Duffy those types. Can win you a game in 5 minutes.
 

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tigs2010 said:
I have a feeling outside of probably needing another ruck we are at the stage we need to see if the kids sink or swim. If we keep recruiting more talls it's going to end up like this years ruck situation and some will need to play at 3rds level. We were already crowded for talls.

I want a small/medium forward who can break a game open. Atkins has the ability to be that but I like him more as a midfielder. Warrell/Sumner/Duffy those types. Can win you a game in 5 minutes.
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4 talls off the list after the end of season i would think we need to replace 1 and possibly 2 of those for a proper list balance
 
UpTheGuts said:
Chaplin's 1. Wood may be 2.
But I understand tigs' point. Happy to see Elton given a good run
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i would rather have a grundy on our list if he slips to us than a wood
 
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