2012 - How to get to the top.

gbatman

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Thread starter #1
Just a thread to discuss the big issue. What do we need to do to become the best team in the AFL? What improvements do you want to see and expect to see next year? What's got to change for us to be a premiership team?

Expected Improvements and Predictions
Waite will be fit. Was brilliant this year when he was going but got injured and that hurt. He'll be back and fit and in his prime for a tall forward.

Touhy will emerge and become the missing tough and classy midfielder. I've been curious about his onball potential and we got to see it recently. Could be very very good. Ratten has said it and I've been saying it, we are lacking at least one quick, tough midfielder who can win contested footy and play a running game.

Duigan, his second AFL preseason. Why wouldn't you think that he could make a slight improvement and have an even better 2012.

Gibbs will do what Murphy did this year and become a top midfielder in the AFL. His game against Essendon showed this. He was hard at the contest. He has been getting less "junk" possessions and more damaging ones. He's ready to take the next step.

Henderson and Jamison who both had injury interrupted seasons will be recognised as a top defencive pair. They looked very good lining up in defence. Henderson should really break out as a CHB in 2012. He's not a forward, he has a backman's build, not a forwards. He had the challenge of getting over a long term injury this season so there is a very good chance Henderson will be fitter and stronger in 2012. Jamison should have another top year and hopefully stay fit.

Kane Lucas will step up after having injury problems and add to Carlton's fast classy players. He's been forgotten but no doubt will work hard this summer and add some extra pace and class to our side.

Paul Bower who has been injured for two years has finished a season off in the VFL quite well which has prepared him really well to have a big preseason. Maybe he will be traded but if he doesn't he could be very important as that extra tall rebounding defender. All top sides have a really good athletic 3 tall who is genuinely tall. Bower got himself very big last preseason and seems to have lost a lot of weight and returned to his weight of a few years ago. I think we were trying to bulk him up to be a KPP but have found out that he can't carry the weight and is better suited to the 3rd tall role. I recon we'll see him return next season after coming off a different training regime and he'll be a slim and agile player who plays on the smaller forwards but will be able to use his height and give team mates the chop out.

Kreuzer who suffered from his reco will be super fit next season and will step up. All players struggle 1st season back from a knee reco and he is no different to any others. Hopefully see his running ability and contested work return as well as his agility.

Back up players like Armfield and Joseph will improve that little bit extra again.

Andrew Collins from Richmond who had a shoulder reco will make an impact. He's been a forgotten player but one thing is for sure and that is we rate him. I think we saw the worst of him last season.

Hampson will be the best back up ruckman in the league and will no doubt play plenty of AFL as he continues to improve. He will push Warnock and Kreuzer very hard for a spot.

Luke Mitchell who is a big tall forward will arrive on the scene. No doubt we will be playing him and pushing him hard in the preseason games. I think he could get a game, especially if he can ruck a little. I think he will get a few games and if Waite is in the team to take the pressure off him then he could kick a few. He's possibly the most interesting prospect going into next year.

Matthew Watson will be transformed into a CHF over the summer and will open some eyes. He will follow the path of Michael Hurley and be made a forward. He will follow Carlton players like Thornton, Yarran, Waite and Henderson who have gone to the other end. He's the perfect build and size for a forward. 195cm, powerful and the best part he is a long kick. good CHF's must be long kicks and he'll be able to put them through from 50+ meters. This is where our high profile coaches and development people earn their money as I hope they will work with him flat over the summer teaching him the ropes of playing as a forward because all he needs to do is learn as he has every other attribute right to turn into a top CHF. He doesn't have to win games of his own boot next year, just has to contribute and compete and progress in this role, same with Mitchell if he plays.

Jordan Russell who could not beat injury in 2011 will be fit and damaging again in 2012. Again there is trade rumors around him but the fact is he hasn't been fit enough to play good footy. The good Jordan Russell was missed this year but he will be pushed hard over the summer to get fit.

Mitch Robinson will take another step forward and will really start to be recognised. He's reducing the number of inconsistent games and quarters all the time. Will be fitter, bigger and stronger in 2012.

Carlton will pick up highly rated midfielder Dylan Buckley with the F/S rule. I don't see him playing in 2012 as we will be good and he is probably going to be pretty lightly built to play our hard style of footy. Waite never played a game in his first year. I recon it will be a development year but he might sneak the odd game in especially if he is as good as some are suggesting.

Chris Yarran will go up another gear and will be an AA player. As good as he was he can be better. Fitter, more mature and harder at it. I recon there is going to be no stopping him from making AA next season.

Ed Curnow and Brock Mclean are outside chances to add to Carlton's improvement as they will have the chance to get over their injuries and train hard this summer. They will be under the pump next year because it will be their last chance to remain on an AFL list I would think. Would hope to see them push for selection.

The best part is it looks like every one is on target to be there for the preseason unlike the last few years where many of the senior players missed much of the preseason. The long term injuries were all dealt with early in the season to make sure they make the preseason.


Where we have to improve to be a contender for number 17.

1.
Tall forwards, we need two of them. Forget grabbing a guy who can half play and paying over price for him during trade week. If we get anything it will most likely be a B Grader. Go for one in the draft and rookie draft and think of what we are doing down the track. We need to look at what we already have. Watson has played his footy as a back but all he needs is experience to learn how to play forward and he could be one of these sort of players who can win games off his own boot. Patty McCarthy is the likely future CHB, Henderson and Jamison have the key defence positions sown up and settled and if Bower plays then we don't need Watson pushing to play as a backman.

Waite should be back next year so that is solved.

2.
We need at least one genuine centerman. Judd and Murphy are our blue chip onballers. If we want to win a flag we need at least one more gun in here. The rest are mostly flankers, taggers or wingmen or not up to it who go through there. Gibbs I hope steps up from being a guy who plays the flanks and wings and gets a lot of easy kicks to the type of player he was against the bombers in the final where he was hard at it and played on ball and won a lot of footy and won possessions that really hurt the opposition. I think Gibbs should be having a similar output to Pendlebury at Collingwood in 2012. Touhy has the size, strength and power to step up into this role I think. We have tried to fill this role with one dimensional players like Mclean and Curnow who lack a lot of pace and in finals intensity would probably get carved up. Inside players must be able to run and create too if you want a premiership winning midfield.

3.
Ruckman/forward

We need a ruckman who can take a mark in the forward line. You can not have two ruckman if at least one of them can not take marks up forward with the 3 man bench. It would be good if Kreuzer steps up and starts holding marks in the forward line. Can Mitchell Ruck?

4.
Keeping assistant coaches.
With all the senior coaching vacancies that have become open you'd think it might be tough to keep some of them and they seem a good balanced and expierenced group that have had a good look at our list and for the first time have an oppertunity to begin to make changes to that list after a season with the team.

Conclusion
We finished 5th and just missed out on a top 4 spot. We did not beat a top 4 side which was disappointing but playing them we lost by a couple of points to Geelong, 3 and 4 goals to Collingwood, a couple of goals to Hawthorn and 3 points the other night to the eagles. Had we not have missed easy shots on goal then we would have beaten the cats and won last night against the Eagles so we are really close to the top 4 sides. We improve by 3 or 4 goals next year and all of a sudden we are beating those sides and are finishing top 4 and possibly winning the flag. We need luck and less injuries and a couple of tall young players to stand up.


Theoretical 2012 Squad

B: Bower Jamison Duigan
HB: Yarran Henderson Laidler
C: Simpson Judd Lucas
HF: Garlett Watson Robinson
F: Betts Waite Walker
OB: Warnock Murphy Gibbs
IC: Touhy Russell Kreuzer Carrazzo Ellard Thornton Scotland

Close: Armfield, Collins, Curnow, Mclean, Joseph, Thornton, Hampson, Mitchell.
 

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TrueBlue05

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#2
Its gonna be an exciting 2012! hopefully everyone does step it up a notch and give the team solid depth!
I dunno about Bower or Russell still at Carlton next year tho...
 

baconb

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#4
Just a thread to discuss the big issue. What do we need to do to become the best team in the AFL? What improvements do you want to see and expect to see next year? What's got to change for us to be a premiership team?
Should submit that to the afl site, RIPPER READ!
Makes me feel positive again, great read!
 

gbatman

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Just out of interest - have you heard anything about Watson going forward or is it just your idea?
It's just my idea, seems a dead set no brainer to me. I've had a good run calling the changes like Yarran to go back, Thornton to go forward and Hendo to go back although I didn't call the Hendo one until Jamo went down but I'm sure this will happen. Our defence is settled and we don't need a key position defender. Even for depth we have KPD depth. It's KP forward or two is what we 1, dont have and 2, have no depth in. So why not take the guy who is tall, skilled, strong and built like a forward but has been playing defence and start moulding him into a forward. Just like Essendon have done with Hurley. I think he's got that potential and his size and strength in a few years as well as his long kick will make him hard to stop I recon. We will see but I'm calling it.
 

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#6
Has Watson ever played forward before? I think we have seen with Kreuzer and Warnock that if you have no history as a forward, then you're not a forward. Walker played a lot of junior footy up front and has proven this year that half forward is his position.

Jon Ralph wrote an article on the Herald Sun website saying we should trade for Brian Lake, I think if he was fit we should definately enquire
 
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#7
It's just my idea, seems a dead set no brainer to me. I've had a good run calling the changes like Yarran to go back, Thornton to go forward and Hendo to go back although I didn't call the Hendo one until Jamo went down but I'm sure this will happen. Our defence is settled and we don't need a key position defender. Even for depth we have KPD depth. It's KP forward or two is what we 1, dont have and 2, have no depth in. So why not take the guy who is tall, skilled, strong and built like a forward but has been playing defence and start moulding him into a forward. Just like Essendon have done with Hurley. I think he's got that potential and his size and strength in a few years as well as his long kick will make him hard to stop I recon. We will see but I'm calling it.
Love the idea, yes he may have these attributes but do you think he can develop the athleticism required to play CHF.... can he run all day, jump high into packs and clunk contested marks like Hurley ??

I agree about Hendo, early in the year I was an advocate for him staying forward but after the move back through necessity, I am more than happy to see him stay there. At least for the 2012 season he should stay and develop there and build his confidence....AA becons
 

FRUMPY

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#8
B: Duigan, Jamison, Russell
HB: Yarran, Henderson, Laidler
C: Simpson, Gibbs, Scotland
HF: Robbo, Waite, Walker
FF: Betts, FF, Garlett
R: Kruezer, Judd, Murphy
I: Warnock/Hampson, Carrazzo, Jospeh, Armfield, Davies, Curnow, Bower, Ellard, Ohailpin, Thornton, Touhy, Watson, White.

Looking at the bench, we have some serious depth. Add in the young KPP players we have, if one or 2 of those can step up and become regular/semi regular players we are in great shape. Need improvement from those bolded as well as similar seasons from those in best 18.

It basically comes down to getting a FF/CHF to put his hand up for 22 games next year and we will be top 4. Midifeld will continue to be top3 in comp and backline looks very solid with a fit Jamo/Hendo/Duigan/Laidler as big defenders.

It will be interesting to see if Hendo starts forward or back next year. Originally i thought he may just fill in down back this year but his form was so good he may stay there for good now. A preseason learning the ropes from a gavin brown will see him improve 30%.

Its so hard to pick a 22 if we had a full and healthy list for round 1.
 

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#9
It's just my idea, seems a dead set no brainer to me. I've had a good run calling the changes like Yarran to go back, Thornton to go forward and Hendo to go back although I didn't call the Hendo one until Jamo went down but I'm sure this will happen. Our defence is settled and we don't need a key position defender. Even for depth we have KPD depth. It's KP forward or two is what we 1, dont have and 2, have no depth in. So why not take the guy who is tall, skilled, strong and built like a forward but has been playing defence and start moulding him into a forward. Just like Essendon have done with Hurley. I think he's got that potential and his size and strength in a few years as well as his long kick will make him hard to stop I recon. We will see but I'm calling it.
You realise Hurley played as a swingman pretty much each week for Northern, whereas Watson played essentially one game up forward? He did kick a few goals, but has pretty much looked at sea when trialled up there. You also wouldn't have seen his jumior footy to appreciate what a rebounding weapon his left foot was. I'd be putting more time into getting his one on one defending skills up to AFL standard.
 

rp84

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#10
CFC list assessment

Ladies and Gents,

With the distinct feeling of heartbreak in my chest, and the taste of lemons in my mouth, I feel it is time to get positive about 2012.

I feel there is no reason we cannot take the next step, and become a contender this year.

I want to try start up this list and gameplan assessment, and include areas needed to improve.

May or may not be a useful exercise.



No Name Games Age Date of Birth Height Weight Origin Assessment
27 Armfield, Dennis 60 24yr 8mth 22 Dec 1986 181cm 79kg Swan Districts With limited opportunities this season has had an overall positive year. Has worked on both his attacking and defending aspects of his game, is a better user of the ball, and is definitely one of our truly fast players. Will be interesting to see if he can improve his consistency, and find a place in the regular 22.


21 Austin, Mark 15 22yr 6mth 24 Feb 1989 193cm 95kg Glenelg Surely one of the most nervous players going into this offseason. I love his upside, and pure height. I feel if he can add some serious size (say push 100kg) to his frame in the next two months, he may tempt the club to give him another year to go around.


19 Betts, Eddie 144 24yr 9mth 26 Nov 1986 173cm 78kg Calder Cannons Hot and cold year. His best is electric. His worst is anonymous. Bridging that gap will be a key for us going forward. Still, AA squad says he is one of the best small forwards going around, and have to applaud his work ethic to get there.


18 Bower, Paul 60 23yr 8mth 9 Jan 1988 192cm 92kg Peel Thunder Another player with a body made of glass. I pray he can get it together, however is highly likely to be on the trade table come later this year.


48 Bray, Blake (R) 0 19yr 2mth 7 Jul 1992 191cm 83kg Western Suburbs Magpies Forward- need help with this one.


28 Cachia, Jaryd (R) 0 20yr 4mth 8 May 1991 184cm 84kg Northern Knights Midfield- again, need assistance with this one. I believe he is a brute on an inside mid, but is there question marks over his disposal and speed?


44 Carrazzo, Andrew 140 27yr 9mth 15 Dec 1983 187cm 84kg Geelong Falcons Defender-Midfield Solid season for AC has seen his rewarded with a two year contract extension. Has become infinitely better with the football over the last year or so, and still does our best shutdown roles.


47 Carter, Mitchell (R) 0 20yr 2mth 2 Jul 1991 184cm 79kg South Fremantle Midfield

Do not know too much about this bloke. Chance to be re-rookied? Seems like we need more height on our list and a small mid on the fringes may be one of the first to go.


41 Casboult, Levi (R) 0 21yr 6mth 15 Mar 1990 198cm 103kg Dandenong Stingrays Forward

Have high hopes for next year after a very good few weeks at the back end of the season. All pictures show a chubby overgrown manchild transforming into a rock hard giant man mountain. Has great mits, and is working on his kicking. Seeing some improvement there, but still a way off AFL standard.


16 Collins, Andrew 27 22yr 10mth 17 Nov 1988 187cm 80kg Bendigo Midfield- Forward

Difficult to judge his season which was cruelled by injury. Not sure where he will fit into our 22 with the exceptional performance of our small and mid sized forwards (i.e. Garlett, Betts, Walker and Gibbs)


35 Curnow, Edward (R) 12 21yr 10mth 7 Nov 1989 182cm 83kg Geelong Falcons Midfield

Was a world-beater pre-injury. Didnt look the same player afterwards. Looking for him to come on strong, and get back to assisting Judd and Murph in the middle.

37 Dare, Joseph (R) 0 19yr 11mth 17 Oct 1991 188cm 81kg Geelong Falcons Defender

I hear mixed reports about this guy. Doesn't have true KPP size, and with our mid sized defensive posts essentially sewn up for the next 4-5 years, think he will be a victim of the change of list direction.

31 Davies, Marcus 13 20yr 3mth 4 Jun 1991 188cm 84kg North Hobart Defender

Polarises supporters. I see an improving defensive stopped with elite athleticism. Poor, albeit improving user of the ball. Has played in two finals series in a row now, and I think the MC see his value as that stopping defender. Would love to see him become a bit more relaxed, and confident. Then we will see his true value.


34 Duigan, Nicholas 22 27yr 7 Sep 1984 186cm 85kg - Defender

Surely one of the recruiting sensations of the year. Strong, courageous, a great spoiler. Can anyone say Andy Mac Mk II? Will be a 4-5 year player for us.

46 Ellard, David 27 22yr 6mth 13 Mar 1989 177cm 78kg Swan Districts Midfield

Tackling machine. Scores goals. Has improved in all aspects of his game. Regularly deserves to be in the midfield/ HFF rotation.

38 Garlett, Jeff 54 22yr 1mth 3 Aug 1989 180cm 74kg Swan Districts Forward

Blinding start for this guy this year, then lost confidence big time. All came crashing down, until picking it up at the back end of the year. Love to see him get that consistency, and learn how to regularly score against good defenses. His pace is amazing, and I feel has the potential to be a 60 goal small forward, something that hasnt been done for a while!
4 Gibbs, Bryce 112 22yr 6mth 15 Mar 1989 188cm 85kg Glenelg Defender
Midfield

A lot of rumblings about his intensity early on, people talking about trading him and the like. Surely he has won most people over with his second half of the year. Scored nearly 3 goals a game over the last month, and just looks primed to 'do a Murph' (re:take the next step to A-lister stats).
22 Hampson, Shaun 44 23yr 5mth 21 Mar 1988 201cm 101kg Mt Gravatt Ruck

Interesting year for Hammer. Looked out of his depth. Came good. Missed essentially 2 months. Kicked bags in the ressies. On the eve of his comeback for finals, allegedly does his ankle in training. Might have been the difference in finals. His potential is there for all to see. So is his lack of signature on a piece of paper with 'player contract' written somewhere near the top. Could be a beast. Or could be nothing. Until I see him get some AFL level form, I lean toward the latter.

23 Henderson, Lachlan 49 21yr 9mth 14 Dec 1989 196cm 95kg Geelong Falcons Forward

Man-o-man (anyone remember that show?). I love this guy. Transforms from CHF prospect, without any really dominant performances, to 10year AA CHB prospect in several weeks. I think we chase a forward, and leave him there. I am always one for building a strong defence over a forward line, and I think we leave him where he has player his best footy (by miles). Saying that though, if he could translate his new found confidence up the ground to the forward line, who knows how he could go? I feel the reason he struggled up forward was purely lack of confidence, and playing as a defender lead him to the ball. Now that he is touching in 15-20 (cf. 3-10 up forward- while horribly out of form) times per game, it may change everything.

33 Houlihan, Ryan 201 29yr 7mth 21 Jan 1982 187cm 85kg Murray Bushrangers Forward

Massive respect to a man who reinvented himself to keep himself out there another couple years. Just wish he got to play in a flag. Was my favourite player for a while. Happy retirement.


40 Jamison, Michael 71 25yr 3mth 11 Jun 1986 193cm 94kg North Ballarat Defender

Well, what could've been eh? Clearly AA fullback in the first 8 weeks. Then just missed too many games. We would have be 2-3 win better team with him, and a likely top 4 finish. Lets just hope he continues his meteoric rise, and stays out of the treatment room.

45 Joseph, Aaron 56 22yr 2mth 4 Jul 1989 180cm 78kg Tassie Mariners Midfield

Talk about having a point to prove. Has been the whipping boy for 2 years, got his chance, and is firmly entrenched in our 22 for mine. Improved all aspects of his game. Takes it on, breaks tackles, and uses it well. Very happy for him.

5 Judd, Chris 222 28yr 8 Sep 1983 189cm 87kg Sandringham Dragons Midfield

Another stellar year, marred by a very poor final 5 weeks. Circumstantial evidence points to injury or baby blues. Look for him to come out next season with a chip on his shoulder.

36 Kerr, Rohan 0 19yr 10mth 17 Nov 1991 184cm 80kg Dandenong Stingrays Forward

Know very little about this guy. Again, feel that mid sized midfielders will be on the table or the block this off-season.

8 Kreuzer, Matthew 68 22yr 4mth 13 May 1989 200cm 101kg Northern Knights Ruck


The unspoken (because he never speaks) spiritual leader of the club, I feel. Killed us when he went down last year, and I think you can seem how much the boys loved getting him back. Tries his guts out. I am concerned that he is still learning his new body size. Is clearly slower, but a lot stronger. Needs to learn how to play with bulk, and we desperately need him to find some forward line nous over the off-season. RW is a clear choice for number one ruck duties, so needs to add another consistent string to his bow.

15 Laidler, Jeremy 21 22yr 1mth 5 Aug 1989 189cm 85kg Calder Cannons Defender


9 Lucas, Kane 10 20yr 2mth 26 Jun 1991 188cm 79kg East Fremantle Midfield


24 McCarthy, Patrick 0 19yr 6mth 11 Mar 1992 196cm 84kg Glenelg Defender


26 McInnes, Andrew 0 19yr 5mth 20 Mar 1992 191cm 86kg Dandenong Stingrays Defender


14 McLean, Brock 104 25yr 6mth 11 Mar 1986 184cm 85kg Calder Cannons Midfield


25 Mitchell, Luke 0 19yr 6mth 28 Feb 1992 198cm 94kg Calder Cannons Forward


3 Murphy, Marc 126 24yr 1mth 19 Jul 1987 180cm 80kg Oakleigh Chargers Midfield
20 O'Keeffe, Rhys (R) 1 21yr 1mth 8 Aug 1990 188cm 86kg North Adelaide Defender


17 O'hAilpin, Setanta 80 28yr 6mth 18 Mar 1983 199cm 100kg Ireland

Forward
12 Robinson, Mitch 49 22yr 3mth 7 Jun 1989 185cm 82kg Tassie Devils Midfield


2 Russell, Jordan 109 24yr 10mth 6 Nov 1986 188cm 86kg West Adelaide Defender


29 Scotland, Heath 223 31yr 1mth 21 Jul 1980 182cm 84kg Western Jets Defender
Midfield


6 Simpson, Kade 157 27yr 4mth 5 May 1984 182cm 79kg Eastern Ranges Midfield


32 Thornton, Bret 181 27yr 10mth 15 Nov 1983 192cm 94kg Oakleigh Chargers Defender


42 Tuohy, Zach (R) 11 21yr 9mth 10 Dec 1989 187cm 91kg County Laois, Ireland Defender


0 Twomey, Wayde (R)


30 Waite, Jarrad 143 28yr 7mth 4 Feb 1983 194cm 94kg Murray Bushrangers Forward


1 Walker, Andrew 127 25yr 4mth 18 May 1986 190cm 89kg Bendigo Pioneers Midfield


11 Warnock, Robert 53 24yr 7mth 19 Jan 1987 206cm 101kg Sandringham Dragons Ruck


10 Watson, Matthew 3 19yr 2mth 16 Jul 1992 195cm 102kg Calder Cannons Defender


43 White, Simon 12 23yr 3mth 17 Jun 1988 190cm 98kg Subiaco Defender


13 Yarran, Christopher 45 20yr 8mth 19 Dec 1990 180cm 84kg Swan District Forward
 

Silvagnis

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#11
Has Watson ever played forward before? I think we have seen with Kreuzer and Warnock that if you have no history as a forward, then you're not a forward. Walker played a lot of junior footy up front and has proven this year that half forward is his position.

Jon Ralph wrote an article on the Herald Sun website saying we should trade for Brian Lake, I think if he was fit we should definately enquire
I'm not disagreeing with your theory regarding Watson, but did Sam Reid play forward as a junior?

Reid looks a natural with his marking and reading of the play.

Yet Thornton has played well as forward this year because he was a defender who relied on his reading of the play to mark and spoil. Even Mark Austin's gone forward in the VFL and taken some ripping contested marks. Even beat Mackenzie one on one at CHF in his sole game this year to pull down a big mark. Backs can go forward if they're great at reading the play.

McCarthy would be the one I'd trial as a marking forward.

McCarthy puts his best foot forward
"I was playing in the ruck for most of the year and we had some taller blokes in the under-18s so I got a chance in the under-17s against Sturt playing centre half-forward," McCarthy recalled.

"I was able to lead up at the ball and kicked four goals so I showed that I can play elsewhere and it gave me some confidence throughout the rest of the year leading into the under-18s grand final (in 2009)."

"He's got something special," South Australia's under-18 coach Brenton Phillips said.

"He's a running type who can play a number of spots - wing, half-back, up forward, on the ball and Glenelg's even used him in the ruck. He's got really nice, quick hands, he makes really good decisions and at 196cm he is cast in the mould of the modern-day AFL footballer, so he's the one who might move his way up draft boards."
McCarthy puts his best foot forward

Similar frame and reach to Sam Reid at 197 cms.

Paddy looked very mobile and agile in a brief forward stint with the Bullants.

Better mover than Watson.
 

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gbatman

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Thread starter #12
Love the idea, yes he may have these attributes but do you think he can develop the athleticism required to play CHF.... can he run all day, jump high into packs and clunk contested marks like Hurley ??

I agree about Hendo, early in the year I was an advocate for him staying forward but after the move back through necessity, I am more than happy to see him stay there. At least for the 2012 season he should stay and develop there and build his confidence....AA becons
Yes he can. Like with Shane Mumford who was in terrible condition when he arrived to Geelong and went on to be a premier ruckman. They will be right onto him getting him fit enough for next year, he will be twice as fit. Remember he was only in his first season and would have been eased through it.

The thing about Henderson is he was super fit in the preseason and had developed an ability to run hard all day. He is the right sort of athlete to be a CHB to play on both thehard running up the ground types and the deeper playing CHF's. He misssed a lot of this year. No doubt he will come back next year a lot fitter and a little stronger and own the CHB position. There is no reason Henderson can not be one of the top few CHB's going around. Could very well be a similar player to Harry Taylor.

Watson did not have the fitness to play AFL this year but next year he should be fine. Also another reason Watson should be moulded into a forward. If his endurance is not great then he is not a backman, especially a CHB who has to go with a big athlete and have the tank to run off them.

Carlton have gone forward because we have been thinking outside the square and made moves with players like Yarran, Thornton, Waite and Henderson. He will be next and is at the perfect time in his career to make the change, it is a no brainer when you look at our list and our defensive structure which is looking very good. With Waite up and about we have a spot available for a young developing forward to make an impact.

I compare this move to Hurley's except Watson has some advantages over Hurley such as having Waite in the team to take the number one defender and the pressure off him and a top line midfield to deliver it to him. Our team is the perfect team for a young tall forward. Don't write off Mitchell either.

You realise Hurley played as a swingman pretty much each week for Northern, whereas Watson played essentially one game up forward? He did kick a few goals, but has pretty much looked at sea when trialled up there. You also wouldn't have seen his jumior footy to appreciate what a rebounding weapon his left foot was. I'd be putting more time into getting his one on one defending skills up to AFL standard.
I'm well aware of it and I think his playing history is completly irrelivant. You wouldn't move an older tall backman forward. Watson has his whole career ahead of him and has loads of time to learn the ropes. This is why we have paid the big bucks for top line coaches and development people. Would be a good idea to have Wayne Carey work with him.

I'm not disagreeing with your theory regarding Watson, but did Sam Reid play forward as a junior?



Reid looks a natural with his marking and reading of the play.



Yet Thornton has played well as forward this year because he was a defender who relied on his reading of the play to mark and spoil. Even Mark Austin's gone forward in the VFL and taken some ripping contested marks. Even beat Mackenzie one on one at CHF in his sole game this year to pull down a big mark. Backs can go forward if they're great at reading the play.



McCarthy would be the one I'd trial as a marking forward.



McCarthy puts his best foot forward



McCarthy puts his best foot forward



Similar frame and reach to Sam Reid at 197 cms.



Paddy looked very mobile and agile in a brief forward stint with the Bullants.



Better mover than Watson.
Yeah he should be in the mix, looks a similar to type to Henderson. Is lighter framed and has a more athletic running build than being a big strong bustling monster. I like him, has heaps of skill and mobility. Would take some extra time to make a forward out of him as he's lightly built but this should be tried. No reason why Mitchell (FF), Watson (CHF) could not be the key position forwards in the ants in 2012 and have McCarthy play that forward pocket/part time ruckman that all successful AFL teams must have with the 3 man bench. When they start going well bring them into the team or have one of them in developing next to Waite and Walker etc. I just think McCarthy is not as physically matured as Watson and would get pushed around a lot as a forward. It will be interesting to see how he goes in 2012 and to see how much he has matured. It's going to require patience but this is the way to go. Watson's booming kick and natural size and strength is the big attraction for me. Obviously has a lot to learn but every tall player does in their first few seasons.

Watson will be trained hard this summer and will no doubt return a lot fitter which will mean his pace and mobility will be greatly improved. That's obvious, players never get pushed real hard in their first season. There is no denying that Watson was carrying too much weight for his age and was not very fit this year. That is all going to change.

Basically we need tall forwards, don't need tall backs. We have some quality tall kids in the reserves. It's not hard to see the direction we could take.
 

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List Assment

27 Armfield - Keeps improving and has added his ability to play wing and forward to his game. Tackling wasn't great but has improved as the year has gone on as has his kicking. Will possibly be a fringe player next year but will continue to improve with maturity.


21 Austin - been around a long time and injury has hurt his chances. I always felt he struggled to go with players on the lead. Probably doesn't get the ball, run with it and take enough marks in defence as well as some of the others. Henderson is doing what we always wanted him to do so he will struggle to maintain his position on the list.

19 Betts - Fittness is his key and he must always train extra hard. Has had a great year and needs to keep it going. Needs to be front and center more next year and not so much a marking target.

18 Bower - Bulked up a lot this summer and it may have attributed to his leg injuries which he's suffered with the last few years. Seems to have trimmed down which suggests he could be trimming down to support Hendo and Jamo in the third tall role which would release Duigan and Laidler on players more their own size. I see him playing a Tom Harley, Matthew Scarlett or Dustin fletcher where he is tall enough to play key position but does a good job on smaller forwards and can give the key position guys a chop out when the oppertunity arises. He adds run and height which is valuable when you have a midfield that forces the opposition to go long. Teams are going to be looking to have two key forwards and a ruckman forward with the 3 man bench and with the premiers using that system so the third tall backman is going to have to be pretty tall.

48 Bray - Not sure where he has gone.

28 Cachia - A Mitch Robinson type who plays center in the ants. Consistancy is his key and he needs to learn the outside game better. Is they type of centerman hard nut we need. Still needs to continue to physically mature for this type of role at AFL level as you need size and strength. Still got time, seems to have a good attitude.


44 Carrazzo - Had another good year but was belted by Kerr in the final to sour things. Is not suited to playing in real close and is better on running types where he himself can get some space. Can play in all positions. Should have another good year.


47 Carter - Not sure where he is at but I hear he's a classy midfielder and you can never have too many of them.

41 Casboult - was promoted early and looked to be in line for the ruck/forward role but got injured. Fittness needs to improve. Could be a tom hawkins type but he needs to get fitter and continue his imporvent.

16 Collins - We saw the worst of him i feel. Needs to improve his size and strength. No doubt he can find the ball and has a crack. Not physically mature yet and could make an impact in 2012. Seems to be a forward or wingman but could probably play half back.

35 Curnow - Was great until his shoulder was hurt and never had a crack when he retunred which makes me question his mental toughness. Seemed physically fine when he returned but to go backwards that much suggests he might not have what it takes up stairs to put his body on the line week in week out. Hope he gets it all right and fires up next year.

37 Dare - Seems to be taking big steps forward in the VFL. With our backline and him being a megium sized defender it's going to be hard for him to stay around. Deserves a crack at AFL though. Lightly built guy was always going to take time but with our list it will be tough.

31 Davies - Is an old fashion defender who puts defence first but doesn't offer much attack. Needs to learn to fill the hole and take more marks and get free to attack more. Good build and size for a medium sized back. Ball handling must improve especially at full speed. Will make it in the AFL but will be dificult to cement a spot in our side.


34 Duigan - No reason he can't have a better 2012 with his second AFL preseason. He's been great.

46 Ellard - Must improve his possession count. If we are to be serious contenders all our onballers need to be getting high 20's or 30's and he is usually mid teens. Lacks size and gets nocked around by the bigger stronger onball groups. I like him but our second string onballers are our weakness if we want to go to the next level and win a flag and he is one of them and often doesn't perform against top 4 sides. Hope he can improve in 2012 as his role is so important and is really telling on whether we win or lose. The bonus is he can kick a goal.

38 Garlett - coming along nicely. Needs to fix that odd fumble he does when going full tilt and to improve his strength and tackling a little and he seems to be doing all this. Needs some quality big forwards to play around. His kicking went off the boil this year. Needs to be more discipline and go back and have set shots etc when he takes a mark in range of goal.


4 Gibbs - Needs to add a harder edge to his game in 2012 and play on the ball and up forward more like he has recently. Like he did against Essendon. I expect him to come out fitter and physically mature like Murphy did this year. He needs to step up and take pressure off Judd and Murphy and become a blue chip midfielder. Less junk possessions from half back and wide in the midfield and less handball recieves and more contested possessions and more forward of center and he will be genuine elite. I expect him to do similar things to Pendlebury next year. His finish to the year suggests he will go ahead.

22 Hampson - He's been doing everything right. Came into this year fitter, bigger and stronger but got himself injured. Unlucky. Needs to do the same and look to take a lot of marks and get his goal kicking spot on. I want to see him doing more 1%s around stoppages and laying more shepherds and tackles too. Good trade bate but we would want to be getting someone good.

23 Henderson - always said he is too light and lacks the strength and weight to be a key position forward. Forwards need to beat their man and out mark them where as backs have to go with them and just bring it to ground and stop their man, marking the odd one. Especially if we are going to be going long. Also has ability to provide rebounding run and will only improve here next year. More of a running athlete, more of a defender and since getting his chance has proven himself there. remember he missed a lot of footy so there is a good chance of him coming back bigger and stronger and fitter and really stamping his authority at CHB. Had a great finish to the year. Is a Harry Taylor type which is not bad as he is an AA defender.

Henderson needs to learn how to jump. It is actually funny watching him try and jump as he doesn't seem to be able to jump at all. I never realised this until this year.

33 Houlihan - Has had a nice career but has retired. Good luck to him, I wonder if he will be coaching any where.

40 Jamison - Came back fitter and a lot stronger and is the best full back in the league when fit. Needs to stay fit.

45 Joseph - Defensively he is great but he needs to add more strings to his bow. Needs to be able to play on the ball, win possessions that hurt the opposition and needs to get more of the ball and improve his attacking game. Should be mature and should be looking to be more of an offensive midfielder. Perhaps mould his game around Heath Scotlands. Again has improved and is heading in the right direction.

5 Judd - Great year but fell away at the end. Heavily tagged and possibly some poor nights of sleep. Next year he needs to play more up forward and perhaps spells on a wing to make sure he finished the season fresher and to break up the tag. This means our coaches need to have the guts to put others on the ball and others need to step up. Having him not on ball could disrupt other teams structure.

36 Kerr - seems a real talent and a guy who looks like playing AFL. We need to further his education by getting him really fit and playing him on the ball and on half back in the VFL. He could potentially be a part of our midfield/forward rotations down the track and maybe even replace scotland if his skills transfer to other positions.

8 Kreuzer - Did well considering but the reco effected his agility, endurance and his contested ball work that he is so well known for. Was probably weary of others diving into his legs. Should be really fit next year. Needs to get that endurance back and improve as a forward. We need wait and another tall of quality up forward so he is not getting the full back or CHB when he goes forward. He's improved his contested marking technique a little but needs to learn how to use his upper body strength and not just hold his ground but beat his opponant more often and to beat his man on leads and also to drift forward to kick goals. High hopes for Kreuzer in 2012.

15 Laidler - Can't comprehend how we got him so easy. Such a good player. Plays like a vetran when this was his first real season of AFL. No reason why he wont improve more so.


9 Lucas - lightly built player who needs to physically mature and improve his strength. Needs to improve his aggression at the contest, work rate and second efforts. Tackling, shepherding and bumping need to really lift. Needs a much harder edge to his game but has good potential to be a very good player. Is a lot like Simpson was at the beginning of his career and needs to take a leaf out of his book and toughen up his game.

24 McCarthy - tall skinny defender who will need time to fill out and physically mature. Talented player, will probably be similar to Henderson when he fills out a bit. Could be a future forward prospect down the track but needs to get a lot stronger and bigger which might not be his thing so could be restricted as a tall running defender for a while. He is likely to be the back up tall defender and get the odd game next year.


26 McInnes - looks a smart athletic half back similar to Russell. Might be looking to overtake Davies but looks a handy player.

14 McLean - When you are really slow you need to be able to make up for it by being really good in the second efforts, being intense and having good desperation and being a good tackler and reader of the play and being strong. I don't think his intensity is all that good and last time he played his tackling was terrible. Misses tackles and gives away free kicks. Doesn't throw himself around like an Ellard or Robinson. His fittness must improve and his desperation must improve. His future as an AFL player looks unlikely though I am not writing him off completly. Running must improve along with other things. Needs more tricks.

25 Mitchell - I think we will be playing a young tall forward next year. We are in the perfect situation to do so. We have a good side with a good midfield and a player in Waite to take the pressure off the young player a ruckman could also help take the pressure off him if the ruckman is good enough up forward. It could be him and or Watson. I expect he will debut next year.


3 Murphy - Has been excellent. Fitter and a lot harder at the contest. He has set the tone for his team mates. Could he overtake Judd and go the next step and win a Brownlow? I think so.


17 O'hAilpin - Is mobile as hell and a great athlete with a bag of tricks who reads the game as a forward really well. He just as really poor hands and can not kick around corners. Can only kick in straight lines. He's improved this year and played pretty well in finals but having good hands is a must to play forward.

12 Robinson - Has turned into the sort of player i had thought he would. His attack on the man and ball are second to none. His consistancy has improved. His skills need to improve a bit more. Especially his kicking for goal. He is very important to us. I recon he can take the next step and become a little more consistant and lift his possession count even higher. I feel his fittness will get even better and that he can get even stronger and bigger and really physically make his presence felt. Would like to see him deal with Murphy and Judd's taggers a bit too.

2 Russell - Needs to get a hell of a lot fitter and needs to trim down a little. Needs to use his body aggressively. I felt he was holding back a little this year and not really hitting the contest at pace and not really asserting his authority like a big strong powerful mature player should.

29 Scotland - had a great year and is a fantastic player. Needs to do it again next year.

6 Simpson - Tough as nails and had a great season. Needs to always stay on top of his goal kicking.

32 Thornton - Looked like he got himself extra fit this year and improved his work rate. His vision and speed of decision making is never going to be great but it's not overly important up forward. Had a good year.


42 Tuohy - Have many players come as far as he has in the last one or two years? His skill and attack on the ball and his strength are a stand out. He needs to get fitter so he can play as an onballer. Needs to work on evasive skills a little but it will come. I'd like to see him play on the ball and use his strength and pace and skill in the contests. Could be the missing link onballer.

Twomey - Struggled with the pace of AFL and seemed to blow up. I feel he is gone but if not must improve his fittness a lot.


30 Waite - He's far from finished. Should be in his prime as a tall forward. Even when he was going well I felt he could have been a little fitter. I'd like to see him do a Thornton and get himself super fit and play a big role next year.


1 Walker - With Waite out he had to take the full back and he wasn't able to do it. Needs to work up the ground more and use his running ability. Has had a great season but needs the big forwards to take the pressure off him.


11 Warnock - Finals came and he found some desperation and intensity. He was great and took some marks. Hopefully he can mature a bit more and get stronger and bigger. A good tap ruckman makes a good midfield a champion midfield.

10 Watson - A big heavy kid with a raw immature game. Will have a proper preseason and should improve his all round fittness significantly. Will probably have to trim down a little. Has a greatbuild for a forward and being a long and accurate kick should be tried there as the key defender role is not vacant. If he gets himself fit his speed and agility will significantly improve. He is going to be a big strong powerful player in a few years. Needs a harder edge to his game, needs to improve his spoiling and his use of his body and needs to learn to read the play at both ends a bit better. Crashing the pack and giving team mates the chop out as well as well are other things. I can see us working hard on him in the preseason. This summer will all be about education and fittness work for him.

43 White - Will struggle to maintain his spot on the list. Is not over tall and isn't a star but is a good player all the same. It's just there is a surplus of medium sized defenders.


13 Yarran - had an excellent year. If he had an area to improve on it would be when he stands under high balls or has to go back with the flight. Will be awesome when he developes a harder edge to his game and when his fittness goes to the next level. Is a really strong guy and has good core strenght and probably doesn't use it all that much. When he lowers his eyes to have a bounce he tends to find it hard to find targets after so he needs to work on what he does at the end of his long runs. Perhaps we need to just boot it long into the open space at the back of the forward press more and back us to be able to win the race back.

Labi - has he gone home?
 
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#14
I really do think that we need another experienced body through the midfield.

I would like us to target someone like Kane Cornes. While I've never like any of the Cornes brothers I think with some good support around him, he could really flourish to his full potential.
 

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nope would rather we did not become a retirement village. It is not his day any more. Rather give someone young a go.
 
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#16
Really looking forward to next season. We need one KPF to add to our list. Can be a premium or depth player, I dont care...we just need one or the other to add to a full tilt challenge.

The upside to Carlton next season is huge.

Everyone says we need another mid and based on this season I agree. But I think we have them internally. Gibbs and Robinson can increase their midfield game time, and Lucas should play a part.

One player who should get some time in the midfield is Yazzle Dazzle. Not for large stints of time as he is developing his tank but if we need some spark, I really think he could pinch hit in there from time to time. We also have Touhy and Scotland who can play a part. Some other lesser mid options are there too in Armfield/Simpson etc. Prefer simpson outside for obvious reasons.

In terms of the midfield rotations, the three big 2012 impacts should come from Robinson, Yazzle and Touhy. Yazzle should interchange with Gibbs/Scotland so the HBF retains its kicking efficiency coming out of defence.

Talking about our defence, if we regain a slimmer fully fit Bower and Russell as well, then I think we are set for a great defensive group. Jamo/Hendo KPP backs, Yazzle Dazzle on the HBF. You can then throw a blanket over Laidler, Duigan, Bower, Russell and Scotland for the other defensive roles. All coming down to form.

Rucks are set. We have riches beyond compare (touch wood).

Our forwards will really benefit from big kruezer and waite's return. People have Waite at FF and Kruezer at CHF. It should be the other way round. Waite is not a contested pack mark, more a KPP player who needs to lose his defender. He needs the room to float up the ground. If you put Waite at FF, just watch him get injured time and again as everyone smashes him physically. Kruezer with a full pre-season and fwd training needs to provide that contested env up fwd and interchange with Warnock in the ruck. Setanta is his direct competitor for FF come the 2012 pre-season. I'd like us to draft or trade for a ready to go KPP fwd too. Watson needs another year or two and should be groomed as a defender. Let Watson have the time to develop and only fill in as required.

Our forward smalls are terrific. Our third tall spots can be provided by Walker and Thornton. We need to draft some future third fwd talls in the upcoming draft. I'm talkign about spending a good pick here, not rookie level.

We have great depth :thumbsu:.

Some players that were huge this year may not be huge next year. The good bit is that we can cover and we could see Bower, Russell, Kruezer, Lucas offset anyone that falls over in 2012.

If we get luck with injuries I dont see why we would be scared of anyone.

Away from the players, we still need to develop our transition game further. We made great strides this year and if we improve further then I'm booking some tickets back to Melbourne! One area I thought Hawthorn was incredible against us in the first half a couple of weeks ago, was their incredible kicking efficiency. If we can increase our focus on this, then we will go a long way towards a flag in 2012. Laidler, Scotland and Yazzle kicking out of the back half was such an improvement. This is one area Hendo really needs to improve...and i'm sure he will :thumbsu:.

2011 was a great year by the blues...two number 1 picks missing and our most important fwd. We gave it an incredible shake. Very proud of the blues.
 

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thanks Harks, yes it's in need of some serious editing but you guys get the gist.

BG2011 I agree that the missing midfielder could be on our list. Touhy is likely. Cachia is a chance. Not sold on Lucas as an onballer yet but one day maybe. Gibbs I think will step up in this area too. I'm not sure Yarran and Lucas like the tough, physical, contested stuff that is involved with playing on ball. Maybe though.

The key position forward could well be on our list too. As I said, we are the perfect team to develope a young tall forward in. Our midfield can deliver the ball and in numbers and waite will take the pressure off along with Kreuzer when up forward I am hoping. I think Watson, Mitchell and Maybe McCarthy will be putting their hands up to be the young forward next year. Maybe even Casboult or Hampson.

I think we could be hurt by trying to trade for a key forward. By either getting a B Grader or by losing quality player/s over it.

Really agree about your thoughts on our defence. Maybe Scotland could play more forward and midfield too with that set up.

Agree that Waite is a CHF and Kreuzer a deeper forward. I recon Kreuzer is more of a forward pocket as he is often beaten by key position backs. Kreuzer will benefit from Waite taking the best defender and someone else taking the other best tall defender as will Walker. The only reason why Waite is not great at CHF is because 50m is pretty much right on his range these days. How far a guy can kick really determines if they play deep or up the ground a bit more. Setanta is handy but his hands are not good enough to take us to a premiership. I like Setanta but I think it's best if we blood a young forward next year.

I strongly believe developing Watson as a defender is pointless as he doesn't have a role with us as one. Our defence is settled fairly well. I just think that he has a forwards build and some of the skilset of a forward but not the smarts yet. I see he kicked a goal in the final. Maybe he is getting a go up forward because the club has the same thoughts as i do about him. I'm positive Henderson is a CHB and not a forward. Well not yet any way.
 
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#19
We are definitely building a lot of options even with our talls. If Watson could have a Darling effect, that would be great. I doubt it up forward as he is only a second year player and playing him fwd is playing him out of position. I could see him do it down back but see Jamo and Hendo easily playing ahead of him at least in 2012.

I just dont see Watson impacting unless they move Hendo. I think that will be Ratts aim in 2013. Switch Hendo and play Watson down back.

Mcarthy too skinny and Mitchell...well i just dont know enough about him except he hasnt played any games which isnt a good indicator. For 2013, I'm very excited about Mitchell.

Getting back to the midfield, Robinson is the one that excites me the most. Who wouldnt want a hard nut like him boring in and tackling hard.

There are two other things i'd like to see. Better game mgmt from the MC...it has become paramount ot enter finals with fit and firing players. Each age group should be managed in their games and game time towards end of the season. you can easily rest 1-3 players v GWS and GC...maybe 1 key player vs Port/Lions.

I'd also like them to do something out of the box with Judd. Ratten should of changed the dynamic of the midfield matchups. In brutal blocking games like that the WCEs one he should of had Judd hard tag Kerr. Doing something like this takes two of their players out of the game, Kerr, and Selwood while we only lose Judd. It means we curtail them but still have an extra mid free to run amok. It wouldnt be long before Worsfold gave up Selwood on the hard tag and just go head to head Kerr v Judd.
 

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Yeah I like that idea with Judd. That would have been a good move. Reminds me of Goodes and Judd running together a few years back.

Our midfield was on top for a while but we had lapses and they get ontop which comes back to us not having enough quality rotation through there and not being able to keep the engine room fresh while not losing momentum.
 
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#21
I'd also like them to do something out of the box with Judd. Ratten should of changed the dynamic of the midfield matchups. In brutal blocking games like that the WCEs one he should of had Judd hard tag Kerr. Doing something like this takes two of their players out of the game, Kerr, and Selwood while we only lose Judd. It means we curtail them but still have an extra mid free to run amok. It wouldnt be long before Worsfold gave up Selwood on the hard tag and just go head to head Kerr v Judd.
Bloody well spot on. :thumbsu: His 19 disposals were never going to kill West Coast and I think he'd be more effective for us, tagging Kerr out of the game, while keeping Selwood away form it too. Had this of been done, we probably would have won the game.
 

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cannot agree with people who say we MUST recruit tall forwards. The fact is we have the material for this in 2012 already. We know pre-seasons are important to player development and fitness, and we KNOW that Kreuzer (and henderson for that matter) didnt have one in 2011.

Our current forward lineup is highly effective - the stats show it whether you like it or not. THREE players in the leagues top 10 is unheard of from a single club. Walker is 190cm, Thornton is 190cm, Waite is taller, Kreuzer is taller, hell Setanta is taller.

As is mentioned in other threads at no stage did we have a fit Waite, kreuzer and Jamison in the same team (and Henderson didnt start the year in the seniors either, White did until he was injured). You can tinker around with all the guys in the Ants squad for all your worth, but the fact is anyone expecting them to play next year in place of a fit senior squad person may well need to reconsider their position. Watson to CHF in 2012? Dont make me laugh.

Almost every game we lost this year we did through basic skill errors, our shots at goal vary from accurate to borderline incompetent. Sometimes in the same game. We start slow almost every game (the semi final was a noticeable change).
 

bluekidjoe

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#24
Forget the forward. Give us the inside mid.

History says that out of Waite, Kreuz, Setanta, Thornton, Mitchell*, Casboult*, Walks, Garlett and Betts, we would have enough, so long as we definitely have the best midfield.

Get a hard inside mid, take our midfield to the clear top and watch #17 roll in.

*assume they'll break in in '12
 
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