Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

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Do you know for sure that StKilda didn't tank in 2000?
Will it help if the AFL kill Melbourne for it , so that they have to bail them out a couple of years later ( and they wont move them to tassie or let them die )?

Now do you have clear evidence that they tanked?

I was living in Melbourne for three years in the period covered by 2000 and unfortunately we weren't even good enough, to implement any game plan, let alone one to alter the outcome of the game. We were deserving of our ladder position, without any extra assistance.

But if Saints did then, or do now, conduct themselves outside the AFL laws, they very well know the consequences and should be penalised as such.

As VDS66 has already said earlier in this thread, I am not accusing Melbourne of being guilty, but simply saying that if they are found guilty by the AFL, then they should be shown no leniency at all. The rules on this are to stop Carlton like activities and are well known by all clubs and should be strictly enforced.

Melbourne whilst at the bottom of the ladder, is debt free and has enough support to survive. As we all know well enough we live and die by our day to day actions and decisions. This is the time for Melbourne, Crows and whoever else may be found out to be cheating, to line up for their appropriate sanctions.
 

sammm

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listening to the presser, i interpretted it completely different. basically watters said you couldnt fill all the gaps in the list in one draft.

IMO the ready made KPD has gone out the window. I think we'll chase the kids, maybe a ready made mid.

Listening to Watters on 3aw last night, he said (i think) we will be getting 4 young people in the draft.
 

VDS66

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Pretty sure that game was in 1998. And begun our downward spiral from what I hear.

The games in 2000 I might be more concerned about...Though I have no real memory of any of them.
Yeah it probably was. In 200 we were that shyte that if we got any worse, we probably would have won a few more games.

I recall a loss at Docklands where Blight took the players out on the field after the game... don't think he was telling them off because they almost won.

GT was all about winning, so no problems there.
 

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Don't they spud it up though? I recall one year they just focused on the top 10 picks and didn't actually show the names being called out.
The AFL have reportedly ditched the top ten countdown thing (which was their initiative, not Foxtel's, as far as I'm aware) this year and will revert back to doing them from 1 onwards, as they used to.

Only 8 more sleeps. Pumped for it! We may draft our first "KPF" since Kosi, this year, I think!
 

Maxy22

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The televised draft year was better than the previous couple.

They went to ads and talked over the picks. It was really annoying and hard to keep track of what was actually happening. They tried to make it "entertaining" rather than just informative and showing the actual draft.I remember there was alot of backlash because of it and they seem to have toned it down slightly last year.
 

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Oh I still think we'll take a young KPD with 25-26. Just think we might consider a mature ager with one of our later picks.
Who is available. It seems there is not much from the AFL. ( maybe Post ).
In the VFL there is Kyle Hartigan who was a draft prospect in 2009. He may be OK but he seems to have a habit of having bags kicked against him by top quality forwards.... oh and Fev as well.

Does anyone know of good prospects from the other state leagues. Its difficult, because the kind of player we want won't necessarily show up in the stats.
 

aussierulesrules

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Jack Frost, from Williamstown, as mentioned a couple of days ago in this thread, and probably Joel Tippett, from the SANFL, are looking like the best options who could come in pretty much immediately (especially in Tippett's case) and play at FB.

Like defacto, I also have a feeling from what Watters said that we won't be going for anyone like that this year and we will yet again be going in next year with a big hole at FB (at least for when we come up against the "tall gorillas"). Looks like we had all our eggs in the Mitch Brown basket.
 
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I think the lack of options in the draft is why we went so hard for Brown. Get the feeling they don't really rate many of the guys that will be available.
A young key defender has been a need for our list for a couple of years now, yet every year the pundits decry a "lack of quality key position players in this year's crop".

This is where "best available" drafting falls down. There is never a "good year" to draft KPPs, you either pay through the nose for them, speculate on a moneyball pick, or get lucky and/or clever with a trade.

I hope the club had this in mind when they downgraded picks 12 and 13 to 25 and 26. Hickey and Lee were bargains but those positions aren't our most glaring deficiency. I would have thought a top 15 pick would be needed to secure a decent key defender. If we pick up two midfielders with these I will dead set puke.
 

SaintLex

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Jack Frost, from Williamstown, as mentioned a couple of days ago in this thread, and probably Joel Tippett, from the SANFL, are looking like the best options who could come in pretty much immediately (especially in Tippett's case) and play at FB.

Like defacto, I also have a feeling from what Watters said that we won't be going for anyone like that this year and we will yet again be going in next year with a big hole at FB (at least for when we come up against the "tall gorillas"). Looks like we had all our eggs in the Mitch Brown basket.
I was under the impression that Jack Frost is more a CHF type, rather than the answer to our 'gorilla problems'. If he was to turn into our full back, he would need to put on 5 or 6 kg in the off season.
 
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A young key defender has been a need for our list for a couple of years now, yet every year the pundits decry a "lack of quality key position players in this year's crop".

This is where "best available" drafting falls down. There is never a "good year" to draft KPPs, you either pay through the nose for them, speculate on a moneyball pick, or get lucky and/or clever with a trade.

I hope the club had this in mind when they downgraded picks 12 and 13 to 25 and 26. Hickey and Lee were bargains but those positions aren't our most glaring deficiency. I would have thought a top 15 pick would be needed to secure a decent key defender. If we pick up two midfielders with these I will dead set puke.
I have to agree. The odds are in our favour that there'll be a decent key back at pick 25/26, whether that be Clurey, Corr, Smith or whoever is rated the highest at the club that is still available. It'll also be negligible if we don't invest in a more mature key defender with one of our later picks as well. Surely the club didn't see Mitch Brown as the only option. I'd be interested to compare Brown's WAFL form against other mature state leaguers such as Jack Frost and Joel Tippett. The club seemed so hell-bent on acquiring Brown and from the outside at least it seemed as though they didn't want to consider any other options.
 

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afl.com.au saying they reckon Corr is unlikely to slip out of the first 20 picks, with the top 15 his more likely range. And that GC are zoning in on Josh Simpson with 13. They also have Mason Shaw falling to the end of the first/beginning of the second.

Looking at the Phantom Drafts on here, they also seem to have the same 24/25 players going in the first round. Won't pan out like that. We'll have some nice surprise sliders to choose from IMO.

Jay Clark also reckons the Top 7 will pan out as; Whitfield, Toumpas, Plowman, Wines, O'Rourke, Menzel, Grundy.
 
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I was under the impression that Jack Frost is more a CHF type, rather than the answer to our 'gorilla problems'. If he was to turn into our full back, he would need to put on 5 or 6 kg in the off season.
He played a lot of his junior career as a forward however has always had the versatility to play either end. This year in the VFL he played as a key back with a lot of success against AFL listed players.
 

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I was under the impression that Jack Frost is more a CHF type, rather than the answer to our 'gorilla problems'. If he was to turn into our full back, he would need to put on 5 or 6 kg in the off season.
He would indeed, but that wouldn't be out of the question, I wouldn't think. As far as I'm aware, he played on the other team's "big banana" in the VFL finals this year and reportedly did an amazing job each week.

If we aren't going to get anyone like him in the ND, maybe we'll look to grab them in the rookie draft and make them our "nominated rookie".
 
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I have to agree. The odds are in our favour that there'll be a decent key back at pick 25/26, whether that be Clurey, Corr, Smith or whoever is rated the highest at the club that is still available. It'll also be negligible if we don't invest in a more mature key defender with one of our later picks as well. Surely the club didn't see Mitch Brown as the only option. I'd be interested to compare Brown's WAFL form against other mature state leaguers such as Jack Frost and Joel Tippett. The club seemed so hell-bent on acquiring Brown and from the outside at least it seemed as though they didn't want to consider any other options.
I think Brian Speaking said ( before he was unfortunately harried off ), that everyone in the recruitment department rates 100 players in order of preference and why. Suffice to say they are doing more research than any of us. ( I'd do more if the Boss would allow it ).

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/pi...ext-daniel-talia/story-fnelctok-1226515395521
I'm really warming to the idea of getting Smith if he's available. I dont care if his kicking is suspect or he's not the best mark. When have we ever had a full back who was good at those things? Long reach, Closing Speed, Aerial judgment gets a tick from me.
 

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Yeah I'm not overly fussed whether they can kick of not. We've got enough playmakers in the backline, we need a player that can stop someone. They can't all be Ben Reid.
 

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Very interesting article in the HS today suggesting that GWS will take Plowman at 3 (as I had previously suspected they might), which might make them a bit less likely to take Clurey at 12 or 14, which may give us a better chance of him sliding to our first pick. Still think it's a longshot, but not out of the question, especially if Corr does happen to go relatively early, as some are now suggesting. Doubt both Clurey and Corr will go in the first 15 or so. (The AFL website is now saying that Corr is a strong chance to go to GWS at 12 or 14- he's really seemingly come from no-where in the past couple of weeks!)

They also reckon that the Bulldogs will get O'Rourke at 5, which they'd be stoked at (he can feed off the likes of Libba, Wallis and Stevens and provide the speed and elite kicking they need) and that they will then roll the dice on Menzel at 6, meaning that Stringer could now slide who knows how far.
 
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I think Brian Speaking said ( before he was unfortunately harried off ), that everyone in the recruitment department rates 100 players in order of preference and why. Suffice to say they are doing more research than any of us. ( I'd do more if the Boss would allow it ).
I don't pretent to know more than the club but going into last season with no back-up ruckman or key defender was an extraordinary decision and I don't want to see similar decisions made this year.
 
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Very interesting article in the HS today suggesting that GWS will take Plowman at 3 (as I had suspected they might), which might make them a bit less likely to take Clurey at 12 or 14, which may give us a better chance of him sliding to our first pick. Still think it's a longshot, but not out of the question, especially if Corr does happen to go relatively early, as some are now suggesting. Doubt both Clurey and Corr will go in the first 15 or so.
Brisbane or Carlton likely to pick up Jaksch with selection 8/11 which will also work in our favour.
 
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I don't pretent to know more than the club but going into last season with no back-up ruckman or key defender was an extraordinary decision and I don't want to see similar decisions made this year.
I have to agree with you there - but the action taken by the club this year shows that they have done their utmost to fill the holes with specific targets (only the best will do) and I applaud that approach.
 
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