Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

Status
Not open for further replies.

(Log in to remove this ad.)

saintsrfreak

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
11,204
Likes
10,817
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool
Thread starter #1,652
Flanker / outside midfielder however he has VERY good skills. Massive upside and was seen as a potential no. 1 pick prior to GC picking him up as a 17 yr old.

I understand Toy hasn't shown anything with the Suns however I hold some hope for him, being such a highly regarded junior player and a packaged deal with Caddy would make it all the worth while even if Toy didn't work out.
Many players were highly rated before being drafted and ended up as flops. If he wasn't highly rated in his junior career would you even take a second glance at him? When it comes down to it pre draft form means nothing in the long run, it's what a player has shown after being drafted that counts.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,022
Likes
21,374
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
Yep. We've already delisted three with more to come and Goddard...

That would be a massive win for us if we could somehow land those two players. That would add some much needed midfield depth.
Yeah and of the three delisted 2 spaces will probably go to Rookie elevation.
With only Blake and Clarke uncontracted, ( + some young guys we definitely dont want to drop ) if we traded picks for extra players, we would then be looking at delisting contracted players.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Posts
8,400
Likes
7,614
AFL Club
St Kilda
Many players were highly rated before being drafted and ended up as flops. If he wasn't highly rated in his junior career would you even take a second glance at him? When it comes down to it pre draft form means nothing in the long run, it's what a player has shown after being drafted that counts.
Point is he has talent and will likely get a second chance with another club because of his talent. Remember he hasn't had much opportunity to show his value. He's still only 19-20, don't put him in the Richard Tambling bracket just yet. And I only like the idea of picking him because he could be packaged with Caddy.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Posts
8,400
Likes
7,614
AFL Club
St Kilda
Yeah and of the three delisted 2 spaces will probably go to Rookie elevation.
With only Blake and Clarke uncontracted, ( + some young guys we definitely dont want to drop ) if we traded picks for extra players, we would then be looking at delisting contracted players.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that our current senior list is about two players short
 

Squizz

Premium Platinum
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Posts
14,560
Likes
3,241
Location
Lyon's brown paper bag
AFL Club
St Kilda
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain that our current senior list is about players short
St Kilda is only allowed 46 players (including rookies) on the list, which now reduces to 44.

By my reckoning (before any recent announcements) we had 46.

The one I'm unsure about is Ferguson (NSW scholarship - does this list exception last for up to 3 years?), but I can't imagine that the club jeopardised our season by being a player short on the list (and not having a ruck backup).
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,975
Likes
45,772
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
I was surprised by Watters openly stating that. Clearly the "everyone's equal" at the money front theory has been decided. Goddard needs to see buddy, rioli, selwood, kelly, bartel, etc who take less than market value to keep a team together. If not, I wish him all the best at his new club (whichever it is, blues, pies, oranges).
You do realise that Buddy is reportedly on approx $1mil a year now, don't you? It is also estimated that Luke Hodge is on around $800K. So if those estimates are close to correct, it will blow this theory that you can't pay anyone a heap of money and win a premiership out of the water.

Wayne Carey was also on more than $1mil way back in the 90's, when everyone else was on bugger-all and they made what, something like 7 prelims in a row, from memory?

We also had Riewoldt on around $1mil (or certainly more than this magical number of $600K) for much of the recent years and we also made the finals in 8 of 9 years and were within a bees dick of winning two flags.

It's like gameplans. One club does something that works for them and then pretty much everyone else follows them, convinced that the way they have gone about things is the only way to do things from now on, but a year or two down the track, another club, that have thought for themselves, and not followed the herd, will come up with something new and successful and then most will start to follow them. Rinse and repeat.

You also don't seriously think that Goddard is expecting us to pay what he is being offered by other clubs, do you? :eek: I can pretty much guarantee you that he is very willing to stay for considerably less then he would get at another club, but everyone has their price. Just like the price the club have that they're not prepared to go over.

If it's OK for the club to set a number that they won't go over, it's similarly OK for BJ to set a number that he won't go under. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Posts
8,400
Likes
7,614
AFL Club
St Kilda
St Kilda is only allowed 46 players (including rookies) on the list, which now reduces to 44.

By my reckoning (before any recent announcements) we had 46.

The one I'm unsure about is Ferguson (NSW scholarship - does this list exception last for up to 3 years?), but I can't imagine that the club jeopardised our season by being a player short on the list (and not having a ruck backup).
Our website has out list maxed out at 46.....

Peake, Polo, Crocker and Archer gone.

Blake, Clarke and Goddard likely gone.

That's 7 vacant spots.

Which leaves room for 2 rookie upgrades, 3 picks in the national draft and 2 recruits from current AFL clubs.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,022
Likes
21,374
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
Our website has out list maxed out at 46.....

Peake, Polo, Crocker and Archer gone.

Blake, Clarke and Goddard likely gone.

That's 7 vacant spots.

Which leaves room for 2 rookie upgrades, 3 picks in the national draft and 2 recruits from current AFL clubs.
OK. Peake Polo Crocker = 3 Senior Spots. Archer = one Rookie spot that has to be reduced by 2.
Upgrade 2 Rookies. Now we have 1 Senior spot and 1 Rookie spot.
Delist Blake and Clarke. Thats 3 Senior Spots.
Goddard = 4 Senior spots.

Now as I stated. If we were to trade draft picks to GC for those two players we'd need to pay in draft picks. ( I couldn't see them falling head over heels for Raph Clarke ). We'd have only 2 Senior Spots, so then we'd need to delist a contracted player. Maybe SaintSrfreak.
Doesnt then leave much space if we want a mature age ruck or full back.

I guess if we upgrade 2 rookies and trade our best draft picks we wont need to pick three more ( the Rookie upgrades count as draft picks ).
 

saintsrfreak

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
11,204
Likes
10,817
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool
Thread starter #1,665
But there are more uncontracted players such as Cripps and Ledger. Is Ledger safe? I could see him being rookied.

Nobody would want Jones
Ledger won't be rookied, that would be ridiculous.
Jones holds value, but we're a team that is prioritizing foot skills going forward. We could get something for him, not much but something is better than nothing. Along with us not having to pay out his contract.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
Ledger won't be rookied, that would be ridiculous.
Jones holds value, but we're a team that is prioritizing foot skills going forward. We could get something for him, not much but something is better than nothing. Along with us not having to pay out his contract.
According to the Coach Clinton Jones still have a spot in the side going forward. But.. I'd like to see the Faz (Ray) as our #1 tagger he can actually kick. But who knows!!
 

Persevering Saint

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Posts
16,900
Likes
27,527
Location
MAdelaide
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
I'm a lover, not a fighter
But there are more uncontracted players such as Cripps and Ledger. Is Ledger safe? I could see him being rookied.

Nobody would want Jones
Hmm, not sure I buy that. The reason he was dropped was because of a shift in game-plan. Lyon emphasised defensive skill and accountability (including of course taggers), while Watters emphasises foot skills and doesn't really allow for taggers. Jones is a wrench left behind after a mechanic's garage gets sold to somebody else and turned into a burger-joint - it's not that he's BAD, it's that he's not in the right place. There are plenty of clubsthat still value taggers, and Jones is one of the best of the last five years. Yes he's 29, but for a younger team that could be a plus. If I was a GWS, GC or Melbourne fan, and could get Jones on the cheap, I would be flipping ecstatic, because he would teach my weak-willed lily-livered little kids about toughness, accountability and getting into the guts, while still maintaing integrity (no sharpened boots for CJ!).
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Posts
8,400
Likes
7,614
AFL Club
St Kilda
Ledger won't be rookied, that would be ridiculous.
Jones holds value, but we're a team that is prioritizing foot skills going forward. We could get something for him, not much but something is better than nothing. Along with us not having to pay out his contract.
Ledger has played bugger all senior games over the last two seasons and there's another mid playing for Sandy that has his number who would love to be promoted.

Winmar is the other obvious one. Unfortunately he's contracted and holds no trade value. I'd take pick 100 for him just to open up a space on the list.

Jones will be 29 next year, has poor skills and has been a poor tagger since 2010. Teams aren't going to want him based on his 2009-10 form.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
Ledger is ahead of Curren by fair way.
No idea what the hype around Tom Curren is yet. Yes he is brilliant at VFL Level but we are really yet to see if he can even do it has AFL Level. He has had 1 chance but wasn't really a good chance in the NAB Cup and actually looked loss once being subbed on. But i won't be judging him on that game at all. Just i think if we can he should probably be given another Rookie Contract and given a go in the NAB Cup 2013 to see if he can compete at the AFL Level. Kill me if you like but this is just what i think.
 

saintsrfreak

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
11,204
Likes
10,817
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool
Thread starter #1,672
Ledger has played bugger all senior games over the last two seasons and there's another mid playing for Sandy that has his number who would love to be promoted.

Winmar is the other obvious one. Unfortunately he's contracted and holds no trade value. I'd take pick 100 for him just to open up a space on the list.

Jones will be 29 next year, has poor skills and has been a poor tagger since 2010. Teams aren't going to want him based on his 2009-10 form.
Ledger is only 20 and Watters has emphasized his importance in the club's future. If there are any mids we have on the list that are the same age as him and better then please let me know. If told he was gonna be rookied Ledger would definitely want to be traded, he deserves to be playing footy.
 

saintsrfreak

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
11,204
Likes
10,817
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool
Thread starter #1,673
No idea what the hype around Tom Curren is yet. Yes he is brilliant at VFL Level but we are really yet to see if he can even do it has AFL Level. He has had 1 chance but wasn't really a good chance in the NAB Cup and actually looked loss once being subbed on. But i won't be judging him on that game at all. Just i think if we can he should probably be given another Rookie Contract and given a go in the NAB Cup 2013 to see if he can compete at the AFL Level. Kill me if you like but this is just what i think.
Well there's only one way to see if his VFL form translates into AFL form and that's by giving him some games. He won't get many from the rookie list.
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
Well there's only one way to see if his VFL form translates into AFL form and that's by giving him some games. He won't get many from the rookie list.
As i said keep him on the Rookie list if we can for a 3rd year and play him in all NAB Cup games Full games none being sub and go from there then just elevate someone who is yet to show anything. If you get what i mean.. Then if he is good in those NAB Cup games etc. Elevated him if we get a LTI or After Round 12 when we can elevated a rookie if he can also continue good VFL form.
 

saintsrfreak

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Posts
11,204
Likes
10,817
Location
Geelong
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Liverpool
Thread starter #1,675
As i said keep him on the Rookie list if we can for a 3rd year and play him in all NAB Cup games Full games none being sub and go from there then just elevate someone who is yet to show anything. If you get what i mean.. Then if he is good in those NAB Cup games etc. Elevated him if we get a LTI or After Round 12 when we can elevated a rookie if he can also continue good VFL form.
I think he would have already played AFL games this year if he wasn't on the rookie list, he's proven himself in the VFL, why not reward him for it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom