2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

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I'm not sold on the whole Mini Draft pick thing.....it's an added risk in my opinion but concede it's one worth taking if the right player warrants it (not sure Martin fits that bill)... However gambling on two 17 year olds is crazy, we aren't in a position in our development as a team nor strong enough as a club at the moment to take such a punt. We have a number of holes to fill in our team and there's players available this year that will fit the bill nicely....... Pick 5 & 6 are gold and we need maximum bang for our buck........ O'Rouke & Stringer for me.....:)
Hang on, Stringer is just as much of as a risk as 17 year old. Is it not?
 

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TMoney22

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I don't think he'll ever be "the man" at full-forward. I am convinced however that he can be a really really important 3rd tall and back-up ruckman. If he's getting the 3rd best key back he will be very very dangerous. And he can spell Minson or Campbell aswell. Would be a very nice weapon and complimentary guy, but I just don't see him taking the best defender every week and winning games off his own boot.
Agree, and hopefully playing against some teams the best tall defender may have to go to Cordy due to his height, some teams may not have a choice. Thus creating opportunities to our other forwards. But we need Dalhaus to play 90% forward and another zippy forward to cancel out Cordy when the ball hits the deck
 

Snarls Barkley

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Surprised by the amount of talk there is about "the risk" ofter drafting 17yo's. In my view, the rewards of having a year of development at an AFL club by far exceeds the risks.

I think Brad Crouch (one of the mini-draft picks last year) is the perfect example. This year since he can't play AFL he has been put on quite an extensive weight training regime while monitoring his game time in the SANFL. He had put 6 kgs in just over 6 months training and now weighs 86kg (possibly more now since he has had two months training since then) and will be ready and slot straight into their side round 1.

Having a development year would be absolutely brilliant for Jack Martin (not as much beneficially for Hogan who is a man-child) as he would probably be under 70kg right now and being able to give him a full year in the gym will help him so much.

I wouldn't recommend getting 2 17 yo's with picks 5 and 6 but I certainly hope we do make a play for one (hopefully pick MD pick 1, so we can grab Martin).
 

Zgope1

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I'm not sold on the whole Mini Draft pick thing.....it's an added risk in my opinion but concede it's one worth taking if the right player warrants it (not sure Martin fits that bill)... However gambling on two 17 year olds is crazy, we aren't in a position in our development as a team nor strong enough as a club at the moment to take such a punt. We have a number of holes to fill in our team and there's players available this year that will fit the bill nicely....... Pick 5 & 6 are gold and we need maximum bang for our buck........ O'Rouke & Stringer for me.....:)
Both Martin and Hogan have already earnt All Australian under 18 honours, they're about as accomplished as anyone we can get/ahead of anyone we can get already, if they have done at 17 what some of these players haven't even done at 18 or may have just managed at 18 i don't see how recruiting them a year earlier will make any difference. We'll be able to give them the right development with our professional systems and we can manage their fitness. If the club sees them as having more upside and being better bang for our buck then i'd say we can't afford not to get them. If Jack Martin ends up the next face of the game or Jesse Hogan we'll regret taking the safe option. And i've gotta say, a lot of people are suggesting that they are more likely to be just that than who we could get with 5 and 6
 

zephskinner26

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I'm not sold on the whole Mini Draft pick thing.....it's an added risk in my opinion but concede it's one worth taking if the right player warrants it (not sure Martin fits that bill)... However gambling on two 17 year olds is crazy, we aren't in a position in our development as a team nor strong enough as a club at the moment to take such a punt. We have a number of holes to fill in our team and there's players available this year that will fit the bill nicely....... Pick 5 & 6 are gold and we need maximum bang for our buck........ O'Rouke & Stringer for me.....:)
Martin is already at the level of many of the top draftees available this year. Ever though maybe his age is an advantage than always thinking like pessimistic doggies fan and expecting him to regress

Stringer is a risk. You are banking on him regaining his 17 year old form after a broken leg when there are 17 year olds like Martin who is already playing at that standard

Hogan yeah is questionable but at this stage it is astounding that there are still people that don't realise how much "bang for your buck" we would be getting if we got Martin with pick 5 or 6. Dude is a stud
 

Snarls Barkley

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Don't see much risk in Stringer either.

He is only young, so I'm very confident he'll get his leg right. You could see at the end of the season how much it had improved since the start of the season so I think it is just a matter of time.

The game the McCartney's watched he got 26 touches against men in the VFL and he was probably only going around at 70%. I have no doubt he'll get back to 100% soon, whether that is by round 1 2013 or round 1 2014, and he'll be a great player.
 

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Snarls Barkley

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Martin and one of Stringer/O'Rouke/Hogan/Garlett

I've fallen off the Mayes bandwagon a bit more cause I've learnt more about O'Rourke, Hogan and Garlett. Seem like better options
I'm still very much on the Mayes bandwagon. Perhaps at the front of it as well. :)

In my view he is the player we are screaming out to get. Watching him in those U18 Championship games he reminded me so much of Ryan Griffen and I've been watching him through rose-coloured glasses ever since haha. Probably the second best kick of the top prospects (behind Toumpas), has good speed and at 187cm is a good height for a midfielder. He'll play predominately half-forward flank in his first few years though.
 

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Even if we did pick up Martin and Hogan in the mini draft, we will still pick up other players who will get games next year, including our f/s Hunter. I think there will be some improvement next year, we will take some big steps forward.
I agree. I think a lot of our players with 1-3 years experience under their belt will step up next year, more than offsetting any decline in the older brigade.
 

Super Hans

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Jake Neade would be better IMO. More consistent
If we get Neade I'll be ecstatic. I've seen him play from year 10 onwards against bigger bodies at St Pats and he is just an animal. Closest thing I have seen to Rioli outside of AFL.
 
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Not going to argue against getting Hogan because I don't know enough about him, I just want to ask something; why, when somebody brings up Grundy, do we get the, "Don't take big men with high picks" argument, yet when Hogan comes up we're more than happy to take him with pick 5/6 at 17? Not having a go, I'm just curious.
 

dogwatch

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Not going to argue against getting Hogan because I don't know enough about him, I just want to ask something; why, when somebody brings up Grundy, we get the, "Don't take big men with high picks" argument, yet when Hogan comes up we're more than happy to take him with pick 5/6 at 17? Not having a go, I'm just curious.
The distinction is between "big men" and natural KPFs. There are lots of good 200cm rucks to be found, especially those just finding their feet at the age of 21-22 and it can be argued that very few of them (NicNat/Cox/Sandilands may be exceptions) have the ability to swing a game on their own.

KPFs are another matter. You will very seldom get (or develop) a top-line KPF after the draft unless you are willing to pay the earth (how much would Richmond want now for Riewoldt, or Hawthorn for Franklin?) And it hardly needs to be said that a gun KPF can win you games off their own boot.

So the argument is we have too many of the former, even though they are all promising to one degree or another (Roughy, Cordy, Campbell) and we have no-one who is a clear standout KPF. Jones is our best prospect but had a year to forget in 2012. If we can secure an A-level KPF in the draft it will serve us well for a decade. Think Chris Grant. It will serve us far better than another "big man", even though I gather Grundy is a rare talent in that regard and could prove to be a NicNat-type exception to the rule..
 

fronkalicious

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Not going to argue against getting Hogan because I don't know enough about him, I just want to ask something; why, when somebody brings up Grundy, do we get the, "Don't take big men with high picks" argument, yet when Hogan comes up we're more than happy to take him with pick 5/6 at 17? Not having a go, I'm just curious.
I think it's simply the difference between ruckman and key forwards.

1. We need a full-forward and don't need a ruckman.
2. Gun full-forwards need to be drafted as they're rare as hens teeth, while ruckman can often be traded in (or picked up under free agency with the new rules) as they regularly get stuck behind other ruckman at their original clubs (Mumford, Jacobs etc).

Not saying that makes it right, just that that's the thought process behind guys willing to punt on hogan but maybe not so keen to take Grundy in this draft
 
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Fair enough to both of you, thanks guys. To clarify I'm not keen on taking Grundy but I really don't know enough about Hogan to form an opinion.
 
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Not going to argue against getting Hogan because I don't know enough about him, I just want to ask something; why, when somebody brings up Grundy, we get the, "Don't take big men with high picks" argument, yet when Hogan comes up we're more than happy to take him with pick 5/6 at 17? Not having a go, I'm just curious.
I think there's a fair argument not to take ruckman with high picks unless they are absolute freaks like NicNat. You can get gun ruckman with later picks, where as with gun key forwards most of them are high picks. Ruckman are also a lot easier to trade for and it can save you years of development. Also haven't we got decent enough ruckman? Our tall forward situation I think is a problem, plus I think Hogan is a better player then Grundy even though he's a year younger. IMO Grundy is overrated.

In saying all that, I don't think we will should take two 17 year olds. It's one or the other and I prefer Martin.
 
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And Chris Judd!

For me, at the moment the ultimate situation would be:

WB give - Ward compo pick (pick 6)
GWS give - Jack Martin

WB give - Lake, pay 75% of Lake's 2013 salary, pick 27
Carl give - pick 11

WB give - Reid compo pick (pick 48)
GC give - Josh Toy

2012 draft
Pick 5 - Jake Stringer
Pick 11 - Dayle Garlett
Pick 47 - Lachie Hunter (f/s)

To summarise, we get in for 2013:
Draft/trades - Stringer, Garlett, Hunter and Toy.
Rookie upgrades - Campbell, JJ, Jong, Austin

Need to delist 8 players -
6 already confirmed... Hargrave, Gilbee, Djerrkura (retired), Mulligan, Hooper, Moles (delisted).
2 more to go - Panos, Hill?

Finally, I just have to say that the level of discussion in this thread is generally excellent. I guess it keeps us all going through the finals til we get to trade week!
 

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I've got two dreams and hopefully one of these comes true (My number 1 is Toumpas but lets just put that out of the equation :()
It seems almost impossible that Toumpas will slip to us but maybe we could orchestrate a bit of a trade to get him.

We give GC pick 5 & 6
GC give us pick 2 & whatever they get for Caddy (11-16?).

This benefits GC as they can use one pick to trade for Tippet, (as a pick lower than Brisbane's) and the other in the draft, or mini-draft.
It benefits us as we get the 2nd best mid in the draft in Toumpas and another elite talent in Stringer? Macrae? O’Rourke? Garlett? Kennedy? whoever is left.
We could potentially get Toy & a 3rd rounder thrown in too, as I can’t see Gold Coast using it.

I guess the trade relies on Adelaide wanting a pick around the 5, 6 mark for Tippet & GC being willing to pay, but it could happen.
Just a bit of speculation ;)
 

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Anyone else thinking all this talk about Stringer's leg could just be like J Selwood's knee??
I think Stringer's leg could be just like Voss's leg, very similar injuries and Voss struggled to play for about 18 months afterwards.

His career ended up ok ;)
 

TBOW

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WB give - Lake, pay 75% of Lake's 2013 salary, pick 27
Carl give - pick 11
I'm all for trading Lake and paying part of his salary to get the deal done, but I think some on here (not saying you jtg) have got the wrong idea if they think that it will allow Lake to fit into another clubs tight salary cap.
There is no way the AFL would allow part of a players salary payed by an external club to be excluded from the cap, it just raises to many potential nasty scenarios.

I've got my fingers crossed that Cloke stays with Collingwood, & Carlton decide to use the cap space chase another big name player.
Also hoping that the Hawks decide to push hard for the next couple of years & chase a quality defender to do so. Schoenmakers is a huge liability.
We need to start a little bidding war for Lake's services if we are to get anything of value.

Can't see any of this happening to be completely honest, but it would be nice.
 
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