2012 List Management - Drafts, Trading and Delistings

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paulveed

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I'd consider (if we want both MD picks) a time-limit approach, so we don't end up bidding aginst ourselves. Something like:

"Here's picks 5 and 6 which we offer in exchange for MD picks 1 and 2 and Jed Anderson. This is our final offer and we need an answer in 48 hours or we are out of here."
Hey Mutt, I think generally speaking we are on a similar track here. I suggested previously that we offer GWS pick 6 on a time limit. Don't give them the entire trade period to try and negotiate with the opposition clubs. Take it or leave it in a restricted time frame or we will walk.

Personally there are no likely situations where I would consider trading both picks 5 & 6. The only such conditions are simply not going to eventuate.

Now I would seriously like for us to finish up with Martin. But, since we seem to be playing lots of hypotheticals here anyway, just for the fun of the exercise, lets assume the entire Mini Draft thing falls over, and those five [ ? ] kids fall back into the 2013 draft pool.
What is the position Martin might occupy in the pecking order in 12 months time?
He might be No1, but then he might not. Even barring injuries, Aish, Boyd, Hogan, Kennedy, plus a smoky marginal to, or not even in the picture yet, could all be in the mix for the top six in that pool.
Why in God's name should we gamble away picks 5 & 6 in a draft that is of a known [ or given the time frame, as near as we can get to a known] quality/standard, on one kid [and I don't care who he is] that may or may not fall within the top 6 of his own age pool next draft.

As I said, here is our offer, 6 for pick 1, GWS make up your mind in 'x' days or hours, or we are out of the picture, and you will just have to do the best you can elsewhere.
They have demonstrated they can and will play ruthless hard ball if allowed to play by their own set of rules. Play them at their own game or get out of the competition is my preferred option.
 

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AjsGuns

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Hey Mutt, I think generally speaking we are on a similar track here. I suggested previously that we offer GWS pick 6 on a time limit. Don't give them the entire trade period to try and negotiate with the opposition clubs. Take it or leave it in a restricted time frame or we will walk.

Personally there are no likely situations where I would consider trading both picks 5 & 6. The only such conditions are simply not going to eventuate.

Now I would seriously like for us to finish up with Martin. But, since we seem to be playing lots of hypotheticals here anyway, just for the fun of the exercise, lets assume the entire Mini Draft thing falls over, and those five [ ? ] kids fall back into the 2013 draft pool.
What is the position Martin might occupy in the pecking order in 12 months time?
He might be No1, but then he might not. Even barring injuries, Aish, Boyd, Hogan, Kennedy, plus a smoky marginal to, or not even in the picture yet, could all be in the mix for the top six in that pool.
Why in God's name should we gamble away picks 5 & 6 in a draft that is of a known [ or given the time frame, as near as we can get to a known] quality/standard, on one kid [and I don't care who he is] that may or may not fall within the top 6 of his own age pool next draft.

As I said, here is our offer, 6 for pick 1, GWS make up your mind in 'x' days or hours, or we are out of the picture, and you will just have to do the best you can elsewhere.
They have demonstrated they can and will play ruthless hard ball if allowed to play by their own set of rules. Play them at their own game or get out of the competition is my preferred option.
I Agree with this as well,
Pick 6 for MD1 or,
Pick 5+6+Marko for MD1+MD2+Anderson
Give them 48 hours.
 

coxman

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Would assume they would prefer 5+6 for Martin/Hogan + Anderson than Martin + Anderson for 5.
yeah i was just wondering do they prefer hogan than stringer because that is what it would boil down too one or the other. i suppose it depends who they rate higher, a true big bodied FF/Hogan or a pavlich type in stringer
 

AjsGuns

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yeah i was just wondering do they prefer hogan than stringer because that is what it would boil down too one or the other. i suppose it depends who they rate higher, a true big bodied FF/Hogan or a pavlich type in stringer
It doesn't matter if they prefer Hogan or Stringer they need to trade the MD picks they are use it or lose it for GWS if they dont trade them they lose them. Since no one can beat our package of 5+6 i think we are in a favorable postition and GWS would prefer higher picks ie 5 compared to 11+16 since they need to cull their list so higher picks are more valuable to them than any other team (not inc GC).
 

paulveed

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Can someone tell me why markovic is mixed up in all this at all? Was it mentioned in an article or something? Why would the suns want Marcovic?
Steph, I think it is just phishing on people's part, based on that if I recall correctly GWS said somewhere that they were looking for a/few big bodies, particularly in defence to help out some of their kids short term.
Some here seem to have put 2 & 2 together, figured that we could survive without Marko, and come up with 6.
 

coxman

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It doesn't matter if they prefer Hogan or Stringer they need to trade the MD picks they are use it or lose it for GWS if they dont trade them they lose them. Since no one can beat our package of 5+6 i think we are in a favorable postition and GWS would prefer higher picks ie 5 compared to 11+16 since they need to cull their list so higher picks are more valuable to them than any other team (not inc GC).
fair enough hogan it is, i can live with that
 

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Steph, I think it is just phishing on people's part, based on that if I recall correctly GWS said somewhere that they were looking for a/few big bodies, particularly in defence to help out some of their kids short term.
Some here seem to have put 2 & 2 together, figured that we could survive without Marko, and come up with 6.
He fits the profile for "steak knives" on a deal - he's a reasonable but not great player who has finished growing, has preseasons under his belt but is young enough to keep playing once GWS hit their window.

In addition, GWS are being up front about the fact we need big bodied defenders.

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/08/28/sheedy-wants-more-defenders/

But yeah, the more I think about it, the more likely a straight-up #6 for MD1 is.
 

Zgope1

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I like Williams a lot and I don't think we'll trade him but in the Kelvin Lay proposed deal I think we are getting too much.

In Emma Q's deal we were getting pick 9, MD pick 1 (Jack Martin) and Jed Anderson for pick 5 and 6 which looks a pretty good deal for us. In KL's deal we are adding pick 27 and Tom Williams for MD pick 2 (Jesse Hogan). That equals massive winners for us.

Kelvin Lay- Welcome to the board. Not a bad suggested trade but I think GWS could probably get a better deal.
oops i think i read KL's post wrong. apologies all round. Still have a feeling if Williams plays out a full year our year could be vastly different next year though. Would hate to see him go
 

coxman

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Sold! Bulldogs picks 5 + 6 for GWS MD1/Martin + MD2/Hogan + Jed Anderson. You have to be happy with that, throw in Lachlan Hunter and that's a ripper draft and there may be more to come with some wheeling and dealing
 

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IanW

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Sold! Bulldogs picks 5 + 6 for GWS MD1/Martin + MD2/Hogan + Jed Anderson. You have to be happy with that, throw in Lachlan Hunter and that's a ripper draft and there may be more to come with some wheeling and dealing
I fear you misinterpreted my politeness.

You seem to be mistaking GWS for Fremantle - as was said a long time ago in this thread, Anderson aint steak knives.
 

zephskinner26

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Wbd: we'd love your 2nd rounder as well that you won't use.

Gws: throw in Markovic and its a deal.
So GWS would take Markovic but not use pick 24.... cool logic.

What the hell is with this consensus that GWS wouldn't use pick 24. Are you telling me that they rate all of their 45 or so players above who is available at pick 24. The answer is no
 

paulveed

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He fits the profile for "steak knives" on a deal - he's a reasonable but not great player who has finished growing, has preseasons under his belt but is young enough to keep playing once GWS hit their window.

In addition, GWS are being up front about the fact we need big bodied defenders.

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2012/08/28/sheedy-wants-more-defenders/

But yeah, the more I think about it, the more likely a straight-up #6 for MD1 is.

Thanks Ian, yeah that is pretty much what I recalled.
Look, I don't know that we are actually looking to shift Marko [ as in the club as distinct from some BF posters]. He is apparently a great guy, and pretty popular within the club.
He may not be a world beater, but he is a good honest trier, and not without some skills and quality.

In point of fact, I think he really would be an asset to GWS at their present stage of development.
Truth is, with the emerging young defenders we have coming through, if Lake and Morris come up next year, he could struggle for a regular gig in our back half.
Much as I am quite happy with him on our list right now, at GWS he might just get a better run, and that could be good for both him and you guys.

I have always been an unashamed Sheedy fan, and now you have snared Leon Cameron who is another ripper, I reckon you guys are well on your way to putting a pretty good structure together. Your recruiting and list management team have already shown they are top notch [ the smart assed buggers], and given the kids you were gifted to start up with, you should leapfrog GC quickly to become the most dangerous of the new franchises very quickly.
 

IanW

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It probably all depends on whether Viney goes at 3
Maybe not even then - Melbourne apparently like Hogan, and his top 10 beep test wont have done him any harm whatsoever.

I can see them leaving the draft happy with Viney, Hogan and another mid at 12.
 

Zgope1

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Until the club expresses interest in Hogan or we hear that we're going for him i'm going to assume that we'll have to jack up one of our picks in the Martin deal and keep the other. I think Hawthorn may very well help us get over the line, if we get their first rounder for Lake that should get 5 or 6 over the line. Either that or Richmond will have to lift their game in the 3 way deal.

On the topic of Lake, i wouldn't be surprised if we used our leverage of wanting to keep him against Hawthorn to good effect. I wouldn't be surprised if we could get a young player of theirs as well as an upgrade on our 27.
 

AjsGuns

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Thanks Ian, yeah that is pretty much what I recalled.
Look, I don't know that we are actually looking to shift Marko [ as in the club as distinct from some BF posters]. He is apparently a great guy, and pretty popular within the club.
He may not be a world beater, but he is a good honest trier, and not without some skills and quality.

In point of fact, I think he really would be an asset to GWS at their present stage of development.
Truth is, with the emerging young defenders we have coming through, if Lake and Morris come up next year, he could struggle for a regular gig in our back half.
Much as I am quite happy with him on our list right now, at GWS he might just get a better run, and that could be good for both him and you guys.

I have always been an unashamed Sheedy fan, and now you have snared Leon Cameron who is another ripper, I reckon you guys are well on your way to putting a pretty good structure together. Your recruiting and list management team have already shown they are top notch [ the smart assed buggers], and given the kids you were gifted to start up with, you should leapfrog GC quickly to become the most dangerous of the new franchises very quickly.
I don't think so, GC will be better than GWS.
 

IanW

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So GWS would take Markovic but not use pick 24.... cool logic.

What the hell is with this consensus that GWS wouldn't use pick 24. Are you telling me that they rate all of their 45 or so players above who is available at pick 24. The answer is no
Call me stupid if you want, but I'd trade 24 for Markovic. He fits exactly what we need, he's finished growing and he has preseasons under his belt.

He's got to want to come, of course, and come at a salary we can live with, which is what makes traing contracted players so difficult - the AFL really does have a culture of loyalty (*), so it can backfire horribly, as Brisbane found out when Rischitelli and Bradshaw were shopped for Fevola.

(*) Yes, we overcame that with large bags of cold, hard cash.
 
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The way Stringer performed this week I'm just not prepared to lose him. He will be a genuine star, I have no doubts in my mind. He will be well and truly gone by pick 9 now; it's pick 6 only for Martin or bust on the Stringer front.
 
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