2012 list management.

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bballscout

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Apr 22, 2011
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This is the big year where the senior list reduces by 4.

Guys that are off contract and are in a fight to be retained:

Magin
Moss
Jolly
Flanagan
Fraser
Hine
Hutchins
Patrick
Krakouer (definite delistee)

With O'Meara, Horsley (no reason he wont be permanetly elevated), at least 2 draft picks with the Kyal upgrade, and say 1 mature ager to come in, this means most of the above mentioned will be moved on from the club.

* I rate a few of the above but just listing what I have heard and others opinions.
 
Re: Contract Discussion

bballscout said:
This is the big year where the senior list reduces by 4.

Guys that are off contract and are in a fight to be retained:

Magin
Moss
Jolly
Flanagan
Fraser
Hine
Hutchins
Patrick
Krakouer (definite delistee)

With O'Meara, Horsley (no reason he wont be permanetly elevated), at least 2 draft picks with the Kyal upgrade, and say 1 mature ager to come in, this means most of the above mentioned will be moved on from the club.

* I rate a few of the above but just listing what I have heard and others opinions.
Click to expand...

I think your right, Piers may get another shot but there at too many others in front of these boys.
 
It's difficult to really get a gauge at this stage.

So if I'm reading this right, we have to shrink our list by 4 people. If we bring 4 new people onto the senior list (2 draft picks + O'Meara and Horsley), does that mean we have to scrap 8 players? Which means we can keep only one of the below?

Magin
Moss
Jolly
Flanagan
Fraser
Hine
Hutchins
Patrick
Krakouer

I guess we have the potential to re-rookie one?
 

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I'd suggest Fraser is a certainty to go (ruck coach).
Bit hard on Moss and Flanagan who haven't played a game as yet.
Patrick and Hutchins are keepers though.

I'm guessing the Go Home Factor might enter the equation, as it did for Krakouer and Liddy last year. Whats Toy's contract status ?
 
Black Falcon said:
I'd suggest Fraser is a certainty to go (ruck coach).
Bit hard on Moss and Flanagan who haven't played a game as yet.
Patrick and Hutchins are keepers though.

I'm guessing the Go Home Factor might enter the equation, as it did for Krakouer and Liddy last year. Whats Toy's contract status ?
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I would have thought Moss/Flanagan not playing would be a key reason they are on the chopping block, not the other way around.

I rate Patrick/Hutchins also but reality is there is limited space on the list and these guys are low in the pecking order.

Good question about Toy, I think he's off contract but he wont be delisted. If anything traded due to being rated higher than the mentionted guys.
 
Sunny_ said:
It's difficult to really get a gauge at this stage.


I guess we have the potential to re-rookie one?
Click to expand...

That's what I am thinking. For example, you could delist one of the rookies, then delist a senior player and relist him as a rookie in the next draft. So we might not have to entirely cull the senior list by the seven players that were stated in today's article on afl.com.au. It would be a good option if one of the rookies doesn't seem quite as good a fit as a senior listed player that would otherwise have to be cut.

The other option is to trade players for draft picks. Maybe trade Magin and Caddy, for a example (wouldn't happen), to Essendon for their first round pick. It is not necessarily the players that are currently out of contract at the end of the year that are going to be the ones leaving the club.
 
Caddy and Toy are as good as gone, in my opinion. Toy just hasn't come on as expected and Caddy, while being good, still looks like something is bugging him.

Not exactly sure where they will end up, but I would be very surprised if we had not traded both at the end of this year. Probably for picks, given the list situation.
 
Sunny_ said:
Caddy and Toy are as good as gone, in my opinion. Toy just hasn't come on as expected and Caddy, while being good, still looks like something is bugging him.

Not exactly sure where they will end up, but I would be very surprised if we had not traded both at the end of this year. Probably for picks, given the list situation.
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Agree Sunny, not sure this is a bad thing as neither has set the world on fire.
 
Tazwegian said:
That's what I am thinking. For example, you could delist one of the rookies, then delist a senior player and relist him as a rookie in the next draft. So we might not have to entirely cull the senior list by the seven players that were stated in today's article on afl.com.au. It would be a good option if one of the rookies doesn't seem quite as good a fit as a senior listed player that would otherwise have to be cut.

The other option is to trade players for draft picks. Maybe trade Magin and Caddy, for a example (wouldn't happen), to Essendon for their first round pick. It is not necessarily the players that are currently out of contract at the end of the year that are going to be the ones leaving the club.
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Sorry to intrude on the discussion. Just thought I would point out one of the tricky bits with trying to do this is with free agency coming in this year, for the first time ever delisted players don't have to go through the draft, they can go directly to their club of choice, so trying to delist players with the intention to get them back in the rookie draft is muc harder and riskier than it used to be. I've been thinking about it in terms of my club who will also be tight for list spots (albeit not as much of a squeeze as you guys) and thinking under the old rule we might delist someone like Gillies and try and re-rookie him, but now if we did that he'd go straight to Hawthorn (or wherever). I think the implication of that is ifyour club has guys they rate,but are marginal calls and they'd like one more year to make an assessment, they won't risk letting them loose given the free agency rule. Someone like Flanagan could be an example of that, talented but whacked by injury, probably has little trade value but if you tried to shift him to the rookie list he might get poached, so the club may decide to hold him.

If the club decided to hold what I would call the 'marginal' players then you may find that other players would be traded instead to make up the list changes. Your club has been smart in signingup the players most likely to be targeted by vic clubs (Prestia and McKenzie come to mind) so there's little risk in them getting poached.

I tend to agree with Sunny that Toy will probably look for a change of scenery and maybe Caddy too, but the latter in particular would be chased by a number of clubs and you'd get a very good return so the net result isn't likely to be a bad one.
 
I support Caddy moving on. We have similar players to him already and he holds a lot of currency in trade week.

We need to keep the core group together but mix it up a bit. You dont want the whole team born 1992.
 
Sunny_ said:
Caddy and Toy are as good as gone, in my opinion. Toy just hasn't come on as expected and Caddy, while being good, still looks like something is bugging him.

Not exactly sure where they will end up, but I would be very surprised if we had not traded both at the end of this year. Probably for picks, given the list situation.
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Which poses the question - At what point do we acknowledge that Caddy is not going to re-sign with us and we stop playing him? It just doesn't sit right with me that if he is 100% planning on leaving then it is a waste of time giving him game experience - better off playing someone who actually wants to stay.

If Caddy is actually still undecided then that is another story ..
 

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Thermonuclear said:
Keep playing him, if he is getting regular footy and enjoying it we will have a chance of keeping him. I guess it's optimistic but I don't see why we should give up yet.
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I agree with this, we can play hardball with other clubs. But I dont think we necessary be THAT brutal with one of our own.
 
Campbell Brown?
I don't know if he's on a contract or what, but I can't see a place for him on your list next year.

As for Caddy, keep playing him to ensure whoever might offer something for him is going to give you something really good in exchange..
Personally I doubt the Dons are going to offer a pick for him, as we're drafting another Daniher which I'd imagine would be one of our earlier picks..
 
UrLordUnbeliever said:
Campbell Brown?
I don't know if he's on a contract or what, but I can't see a place for him on your list next year.

As for Caddy, keep playing him to ensure whoever might offer something for him is going to give you something really good in exchange..
Personally I doubt the Dons are going to offer a pick for him, as we're drafting another Daniher which I'd imagine would be one of our earlier picks..
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Brown has a 3 year deal, as for Caddy and Toy they would struggle to keep Jaeger out of the side next year anyway so if they leave then so be it.
 
Sorry to intrude guys but I was interested to hear your thoughts on why Josh Toy hasn't come on as expected? I remember Emma Quayle saying that he could have been taken as the number 1 pick if he hadnt been picked up as one of the 17 year olds. Has he been held back by injury or are there other factors at play do you think?
 
surely hutchins is a keeper from that list
he is a gun when in form and can hold his own, needs a bit more bulk though
needs game time this year. as to with patrick, bloke has a spark
 
Buddy33 said:
surely hutchins is a keeper from that list
he is a gun when in form and can hold his own, needs a bit more bulk though
needs game time this year. as to with patrick, bloke has a spark
Click to expand...

We have a lot of players with spark though. Need some people with experience or bigger bodies. Whoever gets cut is going to be unlucky. Someone like Patrick might get picked up by another club.
 
Just echoing everyone else's thoughts in saying that Toy and Caddy will be at other clubs in 2013. Caddy especially has good currency. Any of the Victorian clubs would love to have him.

Now that the core group of kids is getting a lot of games under their belt and given that the mature aged players have, as a whole (with certain exceptions) been disappointing, does anyone else think that trading for more mature age/big bodies would be a better way forward than recruiting more kids? Particularly with Free Agency this year?
 
PumpyChowdown said:
Now that the core group of kids is getting a lot of games under their belt and given that the mature aged players have, as a whole (with certain exceptions) been disappointing, does anyone else think that trading for more mature age/big bodies would be a better way forward than recruiting more kids? Particularly with Free Agency this year?
Click to expand...

I do. Not all the mature agers have been disappointing. Iles has been fantastic, Ablett is overperfoming on hyperdrive, and some of the others have been quite good too. I would trade out players that have currency for players who are a bit more advanced. Swapping someone like Caddy out for a mature player would be a good option. We need a few more players with 100+ games of footy under their belts. Keep all our guns like Bennell and Swallow. They are going to be our premiership window players of the future. But I don't think getting thrashed and being uncompetitive every week is really helping our development in the mean time. Get another KPF and a big bodied midfielder like Howlett. Might even be worth looking at the VFL instead of the juniors for some of our picks in the 2012 draft.
 
PumpyChowdown said:
Now that the core group of kids is getting a lot of games under their belt and given that the mature aged players have, as a whole (with certain exceptions) been disappointing, does anyone else think that trading for more mature age/big bodies would be a better way forward than recruiting more kids? Particularly with Free Agency this year?
Click to expand...

Excellent question.
The Suns younger players have been around for a season and a half at AFL level, and generally would have just 17 to 28 games experience or thereabouts.. Still very inexperienced.
IMHO the perfect fit for the Suns would be to trade for a couple of more experienced players, who had about 4 years at AFL level under their belt, so they're still relatively young but also proven..
Not a good idea to get anyone much later on in their careers though.

Which effectively means free agency won't come into it.
 
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