TheJaegerBomb
Cancelled
- Aug 22, 2012
- 5,908
- 3,784
- AFL Club
- Gold Coast
- Other Teams
- Subiaco Lions, GS Warriors
If only Brennan was not still contracted... would keep Iles over him any day, I will tell you that much..
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If only Brennan was not still contracted... would keep Iles over him any day, I will tell you that much..
gotassieboys
All Australian
- Jul 13, 2011
- 940
- 261
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to do the number crunching in regards to official delists, likely exits, Jaeger and the 3 required draft picks in 2012.
It will be interesting to see if any other players are picked up tomorrow (i.e Gilham).
Very confusing!
It will be interesting to see if any other players are picked up tomorrow (i.e Gilham).
Very confusing!
Tazwegian
Cancelled
One way to do that is by having senior guys who can play their position very well mentoring them and playing along side them. Iles is very comfortably inside your best ten players at the club on current ability. Probably top five based on this year's form. I think Iles would only get better as he gets more AFL experience also. He took big strides this year, no reason to suspect he couldn't continue to develop next year. His stats are very impressive, and if you watch him play, you will see they don't tell a false story.
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Yeah. Speaking of defensive deficiencies *cough* Brennan *cough*. I have defended Brennan a bit, he was a whipping boy this year and deservedly so for some of the games he has played, but I would hang on to him as well. The guy can definitely play, has big X factor, but needs to pull his head in a bit.
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TheJaegerBomb
Cancelled
- Aug 22, 2012
- 5,908
- 3,784
- AFL Club
- Gold Coast
- Other Teams
- Subiaco Lions, GS Warriors
Cant hang on to every player unfortunately mate. It is not the end of the world by a long stretch.
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Surely Hine will stay won't he? Or is he in line to be delisted?
What's the knock on Flanagan other than his body?
Apparently Hine has indicated that he wants a move to VIC, personally im verry disappointed at this as he is up there as one of my favourite players. Flanagan just hasn't been able to get any game time over two years due to injuries, there is still some good potential there just not sure what clubs would be interested. He really hasn't been able to put on enough bulk either to be competitive at AFL level.
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Ahh ok so Hine may be traded. Thought he'd be too good to delist. Flanagan was highly rated from memory. What injuries were they? Hammies?
tigs2010
wowing tiger_muff all day every day
Actually that rings a bell. Thanks mate.Hip injury IIRC but not 100% sure on that.
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Not the end of the world, but I follow AFL differently than most people. I follow the Tassie boys, and he was/is one of our better players at the moment, so I am really disappointed to see the way he was treated at Gold Coast. So my "team" has taken a big hit, an unfair hit. So I am a bit QQ at the moment.
Karnezis_13
Norm Smith Medallist
Although it was easily foreseeable disappointed with Alik's delisting. As a fellow Sunshine Coaster hard seeing him and Rhys delisted with in a few years of each other.
Hinkleyfan
Debutant
- Oct 8, 2012
- 129
- 22
- AFL Club
- Gold Coast
- Banned
- #988
Hine is no loss. Also best of luck to Sammy Iles, a former club best and fairest.
Glad Moss is cut as I said, as well as Piers and Alik.
Glad Moss is cut as I said, as well as Piers and Alik.
bruski
Debutant
Whilst it is not fair it is safe to say that a lot of players that can play Iles position have a lot more upside than Iles best which is where he is now.
A lot of our boys are really going to blossom next season, I am really looking forward to it.
Also, a lot of the other boys that are being de-listed just did not show enough last year, to be a good team we have to be ruthless. As I said it is not fair and it is not pretty but it has to be done.
Because this is the way it works on the flip side you cannot be too upset when players walk out on a team to join another, it cuts both ways.
Anyway, looking ahead - should be a good year!
A lot of our boys are really going to blossom next season, I am really looking forward to it.
Also, a lot of the other boys that are being de-listed just did not show enough last year, to be a good team we have to be ruthless. As I said it is not fair and it is not pretty but it has to be done.
Because this is the way it works on the flip side you cannot be too upset when players walk out on a team to join another, it cuts both ways.
Anyway, looking ahead - should be a good year!
I think your Tassie bias is showing through in this post Taswegian. If what you say is true, it's surprising that most Suns supporters would probably not have Sammy in their best 22. That said, I was a little disappointed Sammy was de-listed as well, but it wasn't unexpected. He's a handy depth player who seemed to give his all every game. Politics plays a big part in footy clubs and with the Suns building the team towards 2015-2016 Sammy was seen as expendable. Of all our Tassie boys - Mav, Spook, Schade, Aaron Hall and Jacob Gillbee, Iles probably had the least to offer us come that window of opportunity in 2015.
On another note, with no current picks in the top twenty, does anyone think Andrew Boston will now be right in the frame given the mids, small forwards we've lost / de-listed / or are looking elsewhere? He'd most likely be gone by pick#30 in the main draft, and knows how to kick a goal. I'd be surprised / disappointed if we didn't pick him up given he is a Queenslander, and we can get him for zip.
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Not at all, I'd rather be pumping up our young guns like Russell and Weller, who I'd been following longer. I started following the Tassie youth progress at around the time those two were taken as 17 year olds, so I have been keeping a keen watch on then. But I am not overhyping those guys. Russell is showing good signs, but Weller needs to step up his game. I'd put no other Tassie guy in your top 10, Russell is in the best 22, the other guys are fringe players at the moment. Schade is obviously a project player who should come into calculations in 2014. And it is not as though I am getting carried away with emotion because of the delisting, I have been constantly saying, since round 1 this year when he was ommitted, that Iles is easily in your best 22 and Bluey is treating him unjustly. Iles barely played a bad game, more than most Suns can say.
I have no clue why most Suns supporters don't have him in their 22, if that is even true, but their reasons must have little to do with Iles' football ability, because he is clearly much better on current ability than most players at the club. If someone can mount a convincing argument for 10 other current Suns players being better than Iles on current ability, I'd be flabbergasted. I will give you Ablett (obviously), Bennell, Stanley, Harbrow, Swallow, and Rischa. So four more players that are better than Iles on current ability?? I'll even throw in Brennan for a laugh. Three more players... good luck. And apart from Ablett, Swallow, and Bennell, it is not like those players listed above are waaaaay better than Iles, they are marginally better at best.
Sunny_
Brownlow Medallist
Honestly not fussed that we lost Iles. I think it is disappointing, but since most of us knew he was going, I think we've had plenty of time to prep for it. Think it's just caught you off guard, Taz. I stand by what I said in that he has a very well rounded game, though has no real weapons. He does rack up possessions, but they aren't particularly damaging save for a few here and there.
Whilst not knowing exactly what Bluey meant by defensive problems, I can recall watching him in a few NEAFL games and I can definitely say he didn't work hard going the other way. He would run very hard on the offensive, but when it went back the other way he'd just walk back with hands on his hips.
My thoughts are that Bull and Iles were only brought on to take on some of the damage for the younger kids. To be extended beyond that they would have needed to show something special, which Stanley has. Shown the ability to plug holes no matter where he goes. Defensive tagging mid, medium forward, can play on small and tall forwards in the back-line, everywhere. Iles on the other hand shows good traits as a rebounding defender and winger. In his third year, Bennell overtakes this position. Not to mention Shaw and McKenzie. The Suns are also probably looking to give Sexton and Allen an extended role in this position too.
I'm certainly not saying I'm happy with the call, but I can at least understand where it's coming from.
Whilst not knowing exactly what Bluey meant by defensive problems, I can recall watching him in a few NEAFL games and I can definitely say he didn't work hard going the other way. He would run very hard on the offensive, but when it went back the other way he'd just walk back with hands on his hips.
My thoughts are that Bull and Iles were only brought on to take on some of the damage for the younger kids. To be extended beyond that they would have needed to show something special, which Stanley has. Shown the ability to plug holes no matter where he goes. Defensive tagging mid, medium forward, can play on small and tall forwards in the back-line, everywhere. Iles on the other hand shows good traits as a rebounding defender and winger. In his third year, Bennell overtakes this position. Not to mention Shaw and McKenzie. The Suns are also probably looking to give Sexton and Allen an extended role in this position too.
I'm certainly not saying I'm happy with the call, but I can at least understand where it's coming from.
Hinkleyfan
Debutant
- Oct 8, 2012
- 129
- 22
- AFL Club
- Gold Coast
- Banned
- #993
I think McKenna, Clayton, Ashcroft & co know a little more about our team and Iles than you do...
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Obviously they don't, or Iles would still be on the list. That kind of 'appeal to authority' argument is ludicrous, if you can't give me reasons why Iles deserved to be delisted, or how he is not in your best 10, let alone best 22, then why bother responding to what I said at all?
I am a person who has actually watched most of those games, watched Iles very closely, and I am providing what I believe to be very sound quantitative and qualitative reasons why I believe Iles deserves to be on the list. I have been saying it all year.
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Tazwegian
Cancelled
Not really. You can probably remember me getting very frustrated with Bluey all year. Iles' treatment is the reason I took the Suns off my most supported club earlier in the year, now his delisting is the reason I have removed them from my 'other teams'. I didn't think he'd be delisted, but I am not completely shocked by it. More angry than anything.
I obviously haven't watched any NEAFL games, so I can only take your word for it. But it is interesting that he was their inaugral B&F winner, which surely you don't win if you are not doing the team thing? I haven't seen him display a lack of defensive ability in the AFL or an unwillingness to work hard. He was incredibly consistent, and if being in their best 7/10 times in the games he played this year isn't showing something special, then I wonder why Bluey hasn't delisted the whole team besides Ablett? The suns obviously have an overemphasis on potential and an undervaluing of current ability.
Anyway, I think I have made my case, I just hope he gets on another list and shows Bluey that he made a mistake. Good luck next year, I'll still be keeping a keen eye on your club.
Hinkleyfan
Debutant
- Oct 8, 2012
- 129
- 22
- AFL Club
- Gold Coast
- Banned
- #996
Decent offensively but weak with the stuff you dont see like Defence. Leaks goals and causes turnovers. Why else would he get dropped after scoring the most dream team points in a game of ours once this year.
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Can you provide examples? Every player makes some mistakes, but to state that he "leaks goals and causes turnovers" so confidently, you must have a number of clear cut examples in mind. You'd have to ask Bluey why else he'd be dropped, but I think it might have something to do with the fact that the coaching staff are scared with the lack of progress their youngster are making, so they cut Iles to give less deserving kids a run in the hope that they will develop to be half the player he is, so they can justify how they used the generous draft concession that they were given by the AFL.
Sunny_
Brownlow Medallist
RE: Taz, ahead of Iles, I would have...
Ablett, Bennell, Warnock, Lynch, Dixon, Swallow, Stanley, Shaw, Matera, Rischitelli, Prestia, Horsley, Bock, Harbrow, Hunt... more probably.
The position that Iles could play, IE: along the wing or off HB, I would pick Bennell, Shaw, McKenzie, Harbrow ahead of him. That's not to even mention Sexton and Allen coming through in these positions. Or even Jaeger. Just not a part of the future plans with his limited upside and scope for improvement.
It's tough, it sucks, but that's how footy is. You could make the same argument for someone like Magin, who always looked serviceable at AFL level in my eyes. But with guys like Matera and Hall ahead of him, both who show more class and upside, it pushes you down the pecking order. And if you're down the pecking order, then you're at threat of getting delisted.
Some might say, 'well, why did they keep Toy on?' It's a sensible question, since he plays pretty much the same position as Iles did. HB flanker with stints along the wing. My only answer would be is that I guess the Suns want to be completely sure that they can't get more out of his extreme amounts of talent he showed as a junior. And with a full pre-season, want to see what he's capable of. But they aren't throwing everything into him, only giving him the 12 months to prove it.
Ablett, Bennell, Warnock, Lynch, Dixon, Swallow, Stanley, Shaw, Matera, Rischitelli, Prestia, Horsley, Bock, Harbrow, Hunt... more probably.
The position that Iles could play, IE: along the wing or off HB, I would pick Bennell, Shaw, McKenzie, Harbrow ahead of him. That's not to even mention Sexton and Allen coming through in these positions. Or even Jaeger. Just not a part of the future plans with his limited upside and scope for improvement.
It's tough, it sucks, but that's how footy is. You could make the same argument for someone like Magin, who always looked serviceable at AFL level in my eyes. But with guys like Matera and Hall ahead of him, both who show more class and upside, it pushes you down the pecking order. And if you're down the pecking order, then you're at threat of getting delisted.
Some might say, 'well, why did they keep Toy on?' It's a sensible question, since he plays pretty much the same position as Iles did. HB flanker with stints along the wing. My only answer would be is that I guess the Suns want to be completely sure that they can't get more out of his extreme amounts of talent he showed as a junior. And with a full pre-season, want to see what he's capable of. But they aren't throwing everything into him, only giving him the 12 months to prove it.
Sunny_
Brownlow Medallist
The inaugural B&F was 3 years ago now. That can't be his saving grace forever. I think the final nail in the head was when we started being far more competitive in 2012 and winning games with Iles not in the squad.
FWIW, I'm not trying to have a go at you, Taz. I can understand your position and your argument, just don't agree with everything. I hope he gets picked up by another club too. Same with the others.
FWIW, I'm not trying to have a go at you, Taz. I can understand your position and your argument, just don't agree with everything. I hope he gets picked up by another club too.
Same with the others.
Tazwegian
Cancelled
Hunt is not close to the player Iles is, he is very good considering his transition to AFL, but on current ability Iles is well ahead of Hunt. Horsley has showed a lot in some games, he is very inconsistent. He has the potential to be more valuable than Iles, but not on current ability. Matera is the same as Horsley, potential is good, current ability is not so great. Shaw... no. Not even close. Warnock is hard to compare because they play such different roles, but I'll pay him. I forgot about Bock, I'll pay him too for sure. Prestia I will pay also. So I'll give you Bock and Warnock (for argument sake), and Prestia. Except for Bock, those other guys aren't far ahead of Iles, if at all. So even if Iles is outside your top 10, which is very debatable, then he is maybe 11th or 12th at worst. Certainly nowhere near bad enough to be delisted.