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2012 list management.

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Cant see us trading our players for fringe experienced AFL players. Over 18 months ago, the adminstration we have always said there was going to be pain, have patience and the long term view of 4-6 years. We're about a quarter of the way through that, if we are supposedly going to pull the pin on that, may as well clean out the entire coaching and admin staff?

Supporters can be fickle, we dont need to trade anyone. If 1 or 2 trades take place, they will be for draft picks. We've now been apart of 2 drafts, and last year was certainly no indication of trading away any players for experienced bodies.

All we need is endeavour at the contests, the rest will follow suit in the development course. Not in a linear fashion for everyone, but we all knew this would be a rollercoast ride.

If anything we will pick up another couple VFL or state league experienced players, but I cant see us trading away Caddy or a Toy, unless our demands are met.
 
The 2012 Draft group is touted as the strongest in a long time. Given our lowly ladder position, this is a good opportunity to stock up with 4 young guns out of the draft + O'Meara. Id say Clayton is thinking something similar.

Will also give us a bit of age variation on the list being 2 years younger than our current core group. May get 1 or 2 mature agers via trade but that is about it.

Caddy is worth a 10-20 pick imo, id take that. We get a highly touted pick who comes in cheap and frees up cap space.

We could end up with:

O'Meara (pre listed but possible no.1 pick otherwise)
Likely top 3 pick
Late 1st rounder
Inherited 1st round pick for Caddy
2nd rounder

That is good!

Just means we have to clear up to 10 blokes off the list. Id look to re rookie guys like Hutchins/Flanagan if possible. Keep the group together but move them off the senior list.

Thoughts?
 
bballscout said:
The 2012 Draft group is touted as the strongest in a long time. Given our lowly ladder position, this is a good opportunity to stock up with 4 young guns out of the draft + O'Meara. Id say Clayton is thinking something similar.

Will also give us a bit of age variation on the list being 2 years younger than our current core group. May get 1 or 2 mature agers via trade but that is about it.

Caddy is worth a 10-20 pick imo, id take that. We get a highly touted pick who comes in cheap and frees up cap space.

We could end up with:

O'Meara (pre listed but possible no.1 pick otherwise)
Likely top 3 pick
Late 1st rounder
Inherited 1st round pick for Caddy
2nd rounder

That is good!

Just means we have to clear up to 10 blokes off the list. Id look to re rookie guys like Hutchins/Flanagan if possible. Keep the group together but move them off the senior list.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to know, what the bigfooty group think if Caddy was to resign to 2014 or 2015, would we then embrace him?

Or am I the only one with a mancrush :D

But I agree with you there on his value, probably 10-15 pick would be what I would chase, but I suspect we wouldn't get it to be honest in a supposed strong draft.
 
I rate Caddy very highly. He's only played 12 games, but I've had him in our top 5 in at least 4 of those. How good will he be after 50 games?

I hope we don't lose him. If we do, I want better than a 10-15 draft pick. That & a senior player would be the least I'd expect.

Don't forget that during 2011, people on this forum were willing to trade Harley Bennell. Look what we would have missed.
 

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supernova_klown said:
I'd be interested to know, what the bigfooty group think if Caddy was to resign to 2014 or 2015, would we then embrace him?
Click to expand...

I think he is going to be a very good player and certainly shows fair amount of poise ... but i think sadly he's gone. I want him to sign - no doubt about that - but untill he does i will view him with a large degree af ambivilence.
 
When this all started I said that successful teams have a balanced list, height, weight, inside, outside players and age.The club declared it was youth driven plan, players to be drafted and coming through together, admin and coaches alike have talked this mantra.It was never going to work and hasn't, the list has to be balanced up for success to follow unfortunately now the list management gets very hard because they have a similar large group of players, height, weight outside and age.In addition most concessions are spent, all people in the club management are responsible but I am not seeing one hand go up to say I stuffed up just more media spin.
 
Lifes a Beach said:
When this all started I said that successful teams have a balanced list, height, weight, inside, outside players and age.The club declared it was youth driven plan, players to be drafted and coming through together, admin and coaches alike have talked this mantra.It was never going to work and hasn't, the list has to be balanced up for success to follow unfortunately now the list management gets very hard because they have a similar large group of players, height, weight outside and age.In addition most concessions are spent, all people in the club management are responsible but I am not seeing one hand go up to say I stuffed up just more media spin.
Click to expand...

My worry is that they are so firmly stuck in the belief that Plan A is the way to go that they don't have a Plan B or refuse to revise Plan A. Companies who lack adaptability to change are destined to fail. Continual improvement through reviews of personnel, strategies, procedures, resources, training, monitoring and measurement, corrective and preventive actions etc. etc. is a must. I was very surprised they only went with 8 un-contracted players at the time (although what was available and the exorbitant asking prices may have had a lot to do with it e.g. J. Brennan @ $700K per year). Another 4 senior players (esp. with our current injury list) would have made a world of difference. If they don't at least try to pick up a couple more senior heads for next year then they're living in denial.
 
Herbs said:
Begs the question, who would be available out there?
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Probably not a lot. I've looked over that list of free agents and there's nothing there that really jumps out at me and says "he would be a good fit for us". I also can't see many of those players actually leaving their clubs (e.g. the Geelong guys). To get someone decent we'll most likely have to give up a couple of our more talented kids and/or high draft picks. If we finish last and get a pre-round one priority pick for being so crap (which is highly likely), I'd be almost tempted to trade our number one pick for a couple of decent players. We still keep the first pick in the draft for a Whitfield or Vlastuin (may not be the best player but he sounds like a good fit for us - big bodied inside mid), Jaeger comes on board and we strengthen up our senior player stocks. We could also target a decent player for the first pick in the PSD (often a few decent players end up there for whatever reason).
 
Herbs said:
Begs the question, who would be available out there?
Click to expand...
I know I'm like a cracked record on this, but I still maintain we got the best available at the time..unfortunately we got a complete bell curve of talent..Ablett to Fraser/Coad
GWS got a more even spread of battle veterans
A few more Sergeant Rocks for the greenhorns
I was surprised we weren't more active at the start of this season, but it was perhaps understandable that the kids would be given some time.
There's blood in the water now and the other Clubs will be feeding on our bones if we don't do something about attracting an avenue to goal
Mitch Morton kicked 8 for the Swans ressies yesterday(47 for the year) I was keen on him..but obviously he wasn't even on our radar pre-season..if he doesn't get an opportunity at Sydney..and that's a likely scenario as the season goes on with Goodes coming back..I wonder if we'd have the opportunity to trade
/look at him
 

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^^^True mate, Palmer, Cornes etc. weren't available AFAIK when GC got Fraser, Brennan and all, can only play with the cards dealt. The thing is, The recruiting and coaching department must be flexible about the team's long term plan and looking at some older players to guide and ease the burden from the teenagers, they would be remiss to not consider this option and stubbornly stay on the youth train with the current weekly smashings.
 
If you look at our best players again from the weekend, it is guys like Iles and Stanley, both fringe players from good clubs, they are the guys standing out this year. We need another three or four of this type of player, and we need less fringe kids. I only see it important to keep the best few of the 2011 first year kids. They are the premiership window. But to get them to develop, we need to have good players around them to help them out. Constantly getting thrashed by 100 points isn't doing anyone any good. Talented forwards sitting in a forward line that hardly sees the ball is a waste. Young backs constantly getting smashed because they don't have support would have to be confidence shattering. For this reason, I am all for trading intelligently at the end of the year. Get some more experience in to help out the best of our young guys.
 
Tazwegian said:
If you look at our best players again from the weekend, it is guys like Iles and Stanley, both fringe players from good clubs, they are the guys standing out this year. We need another three or four of this type of player, and we need less fringe kids. I only see it important to keep the best few of the 2011 first year kids. They are the premiership window. But to get them to develop, we need to have good players around them to help them out. Constantly getting thrashed by 100 points isn't doing anyone any good. Talented forwards sitting in a forward line that hardly sees the ball is a waste. Young backs constantly getting smashed because they don't have support would have to be confidence shattering. For this reason, I am all for trading intelligently at the end of the year. Get some more experience in to help out the best of our young guys.
Click to expand...

That's the key. Sydney style, not Crazy Vossy style.
 
TheSunGod said:
Probably not a lot. I've looked over that list of free agents and there's nothing there that really jumps out at me and says "he would be a good fit for us". I also can't see many of those players actually leaving their clubs (e.g. the Geelong guys). To get someone decent we'll most likely have to give up a couple of our more talented kids and/or high draft picks. If we finish last and get a pre-round one priority pick for being so crap (which is highly likely), I'd be almost tempted to trade our number one pick for a couple of decent players. We still keep the first pick in the draft for a Whitfield or Vlastuin (may not be the best player but he sounds like a good fit for us - big bodied inside mid), Jaeger comes on board and we strengthen up our senior player stocks. We could also target a decent player for the first pick in the PSD (often a few decent players end up there for whatever reason).
Click to expand...
I thought the priority pick had been cancelled due to the likes of Carton and Melbourne tanking. If I am wrong ( and I hope I am) that would be awesome. Can anyone confirm either way?
 

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Iva Bigun said:
I thought the priority pick had been cancelled due to the likes of Carton and Melbourne tanking. If I am wrong ( and I hope I am) that would be awesome. Can anyone confirm either way?
Click to expand...

Not 100% sure sure, but I think it is now at the discretion of the AFL who gets priority picks based on their own secret formula. Surely 3 wins in 2011 and possibly 0 wins in 2012 would qualify us for one early on. Unless it gets political and the Vic Mafia start having a sook.
 
Sunny_ said:
With that said, I can't see them giving us another very early pick with all the concessions we've already had. Even if we somehow go without any wins this year.
Click to expand...

Correct. It would be ridiculous if we were given a priority pick. The priority pick should help struggling clubs rebound, not emerging clubs become even more over powered in a couple of years. It would make no sense to give GC a priority pick. With all the concessions we've had, we only have our selves to blame if we still suck in three or four years time.
 
Here's my 2 cents, considering I'm a member (because of the Mrs) and have been to every home game this year. Fraser, Stanley, Krakouer, Coad & McQualter can all go.
Toy will be traded if he doesn't want to stay and you'll get a 2nd rounder most likely.
Tippet needs to target number 1 as you need a strong kPF that can play back up ruck and help Zac out.
That's 6 gone there. Most of them old or had 2 chances and struggled.
Then you have to look at culling a few kids that just don't look like making it.
E.g. Jolly, Flanagan, Hine.
Then use all picks available to get quality kids.
 
SandyToes said:
Whoa...Stanley can go?...and Toy won't even get the chance to stay..whether he likes it or not..we must be watching different teams
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Mate Stanley is a dud, playing good atm but ultimately he isn't going to get a game when all the young guys are injury free and fit. If Toy wants to stay great for you blokes...he has talent but seems keen to get back to Vic from reports.

Not watching different teams cause I've watch them turn over the ball all year and get smashed...except the Freo game they were great that night!
 

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2012 list management.

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