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2012 list management.

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Tazwegian said:
1. For people to stop saying he has 'poor defensive ability' without actually knowing what they are talking about.

2. For people to admit he was well and truly inside their best 22, and at least admit that it is very probably he is best 10. I think he is top 5, but I don't expect everyone to agree with the evidence.

3. For people to understand that most youngsters on your list won't get to his current ability, it simply won't happen. There will be a few that surpass him, some that already have (Bennell and possibly Swallow). That's not because your list is bad, it is because most youngsters don't end up all that good. Go and look through the last ten drafts if you don't believe me. Lots of hacks get drafted. Sam Iles is no hack.

As for whether elite sportspeople can be treated unfairly, of course they can. They are humans and all humans have a sense of fairness. Fairness, in the sense I am using it, is defined as "being in accordance with relative merit or significance". In accordance with Iles' merit as a footballer relative to his fellow players, he should have received a new contract. No doubt about it. That would be fair. It didn't happen, so it is unfair. I am yet to come across a definition of 'fairness' that excludes elite sportspeople. If you can find one, let me know.
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I challenge you to put forth your version of the suns 22 (list prior to recent delistings) As i said earlier i cant even squeeze Day and Gorringe in my version...

Murphy Warnock Tape
Harbrow Bock T-Mac
O'meara Richa Prestia
Bennell Lynch Stanley
Matera Dixon Shaw
Smith Ablett Swallow

B: Brown, Hunt, Thompson, Horsley
 
longytap said:
I challenge you to put forth your version of the suns 22 (list prior to recent delistings) As i said earlier i cant even squeeze Day and Gorringe in my version...

Murphy Warnock Tape
Harbrow Bock T-Mac
O'meara Richa Prestia
Bennell Lynch Stanley
Matera Dixon Shaw
Smith Ablett Swallow

B: Brown, Hunt, Thompson, Horsley
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Why is that surprising? They haven't shown much. It would only be surprising if you think that being a highly rated kid automatically means you are a jet in your second or third year. But it doesn't. They wouldn't be getting a run in most teams, based on what they have shown. Not on merit anyway.

A very easy and non-controversial way to squeeze Iles into that list would be to get rid of Brown, and put Iles in there. Slightly more controversially, but easily justifiable, you could take out Prestia, Shaw, Horsley or Murphy out. None of them are better than Iles on current ability. Neither is Dixon, Hunt, Tape, T-Mac, Lynch, or Matera, but they all play different roles than Iles. O'Meara is unproven, so I'll leave him there to give the benefit of the doubt.

So, it is very easy to squeeze Iles in. Even if you want to take a developmental approach, he should still be around the team for depth and leadership.
 

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Tazwegian said:
Why is that surprising? They haven't shown much. It would only be surprising if you think that being a highly rated kid automatically means you are a jet in your second or third year. But it doesn't. They wouldn't be getting a run in most teams, based on what they have shown. Not on merit anyway.

A very easy and non-controversial way to squeeze Iles into that list would be to get rid of Brown, and put Iles in there. Slightly more controversially, but easily justifiable, you could take out Prestia, Shaw, Horsley or Murphy out. None of them are better than Iles on current ability. Neither is Dixon, Hunt, Tape, T-Mac, Lynch, or Matera, but they all play different roles than Iles. O'Meara is unproven, so I'll leave him there to give the benefit of the doubt.

So, it is very easy to squeeze Iles in. Even if you want to take a developmental approach, he should still be around the team for depth and leadership.
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I guess like most they didn't see him as part of their future premiership line up, which i can't argue with. He was a bit part c-grader, who had ample opportunity both at collingwood and gold coast to prove he is more than that. At some point you need to back in POTENTIAL (Prestia,Shaw,Dixon,Matera,Lynch, etc) ahead of the guys who have had more than enough time to move into that upper tier player bracket.
 
longytap said:
I guess like most they didn't see him as part of their future premiership line up, which i can't argue with. He was a bit part c-grader, who had ample opportunity both at collingwood and gold coast to prove he is more than that. At some point you need to back in POTENTIAL (Prestia,Shaw,Dixon,Matera,Lynch, etc) ahead of the guys who have had more than enough time to move into that upper tier player bracket.
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Didn't watch many games? If you really believe he is C-grade, and he is output is far superior to pretty much everyone on your list, then you must believe you have a list full of D-graders... pretty damning stuff. Iles isn't C-grade, he is around B-grade. All teams need a sound basis of B-grade players. Hell, Sydney won a premiership with almost a whole team full of them. That was their strength, they had a bunch of very competent, but not particularly flashy, players who all performed their role competently. That's what Sammy Iles brings week in and week out, that's why he deserves a spot.
 
Tazwegian said:
Didn't watch many games? If you really believe he is C-grade, and he is output is far superior to pretty much everyone on your list, then you must believe you have a list full of D-graders... pretty damning stuff. Iles isn't C-grade, he is around B-grade. All teams need a sound basis of B-grade players. Hell, Sydney won a premiership with almost a whole team full of them. That was their strength, they had a bunch of very competent, but not particularly flashy, players who all performed their role competently. That's what Sammy Iles brings week in and week out, that's why he deserves a spot.
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he is gone there is nothing you can do or say that will change that if you start your own team with iles as captian good luck but his peformances wasn't good enough for GC
 
Tazwegian said:
Didn't watch many games? If you really believe he is C-grade, and he is output is far superior to pretty much everyone on your list, then you must believe you have a list full of D-graders... pretty damning stuff. Iles isn't C-grade, he is around B-grade. All teams need a sound basis of B-grade players. Hell, Sydney won a premiership with almost a whole team full of them. That was their strength, they had a bunch of very competent, but not particularly flashy, players who all performed their role competently. That's what Sammy Iles brings week in and week out, that's why he deserves a spot.
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Not so sure that you could say that almost their whole team were B graders. A lot of stars in their line up.

Listen mate, you are making it out as if we delisted bloody Judd, hes not a frigging superstar. To say only Bennell and MAYBE Swallow will be better than him is crap, just be quiet.

Ill put it like this which puts my mind at rest, just be of the mindset that he was delisted to make way for Jaeger! If you even so dare tell me that Jaeger wont be as good as Iles I will neck you.

Wouldnt put him in best 22 over Murphy either, murphy plays a much more significant role in a team.
 
Gold Coast FC said:
he is gone there is nothing you can do or say that will change that if you start your own team with iles as captian good luck but his peformances wasn't good enough for GC
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True. He couldn't live up to the lofty standards set by Toy, Wilkins, Weller, Brennan, Tape, Sexton, May, Brown, Hickey, Rischa and co. :cool: I forgot how high the standards were at GC.

It's probably hard to admit for some of you guys, but you just delisted one of your best players. The evidence is pretty clear.
 
Tazwegian said:
True. He couldn't live up to the lofty standards set by Toy, Wilkins, Weller, Brennan, Tape, Sexton, May, Brown, Hickey, Rischa and co. :cool: I forgot how high the standards were at GC.

It's probably hard to admit for some of you guys, but you just delisted one of your best players. The evidence is pretty clear.
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You are so incredibly narrow minded.
 
Tazwegian said:
Didn't watch many games? If you really believe he is C-grade, and he is output is far superior to pretty much everyone on your list, then you must believe you have a list full of D-graders... pretty damning stuff. Iles isn't C-grade, he is around B-grade. All teams need a sound basis of B-grade players. Hell, Sydney won a premiership with almost a whole team full of them. That was their strength, they had a bunch of very competent, but not particularly flashy, players who all performed their role competently. That's what Sammy Iles brings week in and week out, that's why he deserves a spot.
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You obviously have a hard on for Sammy Isles, kinda strange, but each to their own i guess. If he is such an absolute star/B-grader then i'm guessing sides will be lining up to draft him next month.
 
Fraser4Brownlow said:
Not so sure that you could say that almost their whole team were B graders. A lot of stars in their line up.

Listen mate, you are making it out as if we delisted bloody Judd, hes not a frigging superstar. To say only Bennell and MAYBE Swallow will be better than him is crap, just be quiet.

Ill put it like this which puts my mind at rest, just be of the mindset that he was delisted to make way for Jaeger! If you even so dare tell me that Jaeger wont be as good as Iles I will neck you.

Wouldnt put him in best 22 over Murphy either, murphy plays a much more significant role in a team.
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No, I am not. That's a massive straw man argument. Would I call Judd a B-grader? You need to reread what I said, I never said "only Bennell and MAYBE Swallow will be better than him", I was clearly talking about current ability. Slow down and read what has been read, please. Making me respond to nonsense is not benefiting anyone.
It is not guaranteed that Jaeger will be as good as Iles. I hope he is, but shit can happen. Weller was hyped in his day as well, look at him now. He still has potential to be good, but I wouldn't be betting my house on it.
 
Tazwegian said:
No, I am not. That's a massive straw man argument. Would I call Judd a B-grader? You need to reread what I said, I never said "only Bennell and MAYBE Swallow will be better than him", I was clearly talking about current ability. Slow down and read what has been read, please. Making me respond to nonsense is not benefiting anyone.
It is not guaranteed that Jaeger will be as good as Iles. I hope he is, but shit can happen. Weller was hyped in his day as well, look at him now. He still has potential to be good, but I wouldn't be betting my house on it.
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Current ability means nothing in respect to next year, 20 year old players improve rapidly, called development.

Not nonsense and never forced you to respond, in fact I would love you to leave because at the moment your coming off stupid.
 

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longytap said:
You obviously have a hard on for Sammy Isles, kinda strange, but each to their own i guess. If he is such an absolute star/B-grader then i'm guessing sides will be lining up to draft him next month.
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You obviously have nothing intelligent to say.
 
Tazwegian said:
True. He couldn't live up to the lofty standards set by Toy, Wilkins, Weller, Brennan, Tape, Sexton, May, Brown, Hickey, Rischa and co. :cool: I forgot how high the standards were at GC.

It's probably hard to admit for some of you guys, but you just delisted one of your best players. The evidence is pretty clear.
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i can't belive you won't get over this there was only a dozen or so players that we could delist and because he dosen't fall into the catagory of a young player we expected more or GC knows something about him that we don't
 
Fraser4Brownlow said:
Current ability means nothing in respect to next year, 20 year old players improve rapidly, called development.
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It's not guarunteed, mate. Plenty of hyped up players turn out to be hacks. Look at the history, you will find so many examples of top 20 players in the draft turning out to be rubbish for various reasons.
 
Tazwegian said:
It's not guarunteed, mate. Plenty of hyped up players turn out to be hacks. Look at the history, you will find so many examples of top 20 players in the draft turning out to be rubbish for various reasons.
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Alright so only Bennel and Swallow will be good players, gotcha champ! We should just delist all our youngsters and scour the country for 25 year old VFL type players who are just above average.
 

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Fraser4Brownlow said:
Rich.
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I have three threads worth of intelligent things that I have said. When I want to make a point, I back it up with evidence. I don't just state things as though they are fact. Nobody has provided me any evidence to support anything they have said. It's because they can't. The evidence is clearly very much in my favour. Not only raw stats, but also the evidence of experts and fans judging him to have been among GC's best more consistently than just about every player on the Suns list this year, apart from Ablett. What evidence do any of you have besides little bro-sciencey sound bites like "Iles has poor defensive ability". Pfft righto, you define what you mean by "poor defensive ability", then show me the evidence, otherwise don't talk nonsense.
 
Tazwegian said:
No, I am not. That's a massive straw man argument. Would I call Judd a B-grader? You need to reread what I said, I never said "only Bennell and MAYBE Swallow will be better than him", I was clearly talking about current ability. Slow down and read what has been read, please. Making me respond to nonsense is not benefiting anyone.
It is not guaranteed that Jaeger will be as good as Iles. I hope he is, but shit can happen. Weller was hyped in his day as well, look at him now. He still has potential to be good, but I wouldn't be betting my house on it.
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You actually are an idiot.
 

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