2013 Draft Discussion

[POBT]

I know this is too early for many people but I think there is now year long interest in the draft so worth having an ongoing discussion thread.

 

[Toffee Lion]

As long as we get Conway for cheap as chips, I'll be happy.

 

[POBT]

As long as we get Conway for cheap as chips, I'll be happy.

I dunno about cheap as chips but the best thing about the position we are in is that we don't have to pay any more than what another club thinks he's worth. If they bid a first rounder before our pick, we only have to match it. So, worst case scenario is that we use a first round pick on a player that is rated as a first rounder.

Of course, the big advantage is if we have multiple Academy players who are draft-worthy. That's when we could conveivably pick up a bargain or two.

 

[Harris Specter]

A real clearance player. Someone in the mould of Oliver Wines. Not afraid to get his hands dirty, loves the in and under congestion work, and has excellent speed at stoppages to break away.

I feel like over the years, we've had too many flankers or half-forward types. Time to go for the specific need and this is what we need. A big defender/forward would be handy too.

 

[sonofabeams]

A real clearance player. Someone in the mould of Oliver Wines. Not afraid to get his hands dirty, loves the in and under congestion work, and has excellent speed at stoppages to break away.

I feel like over the years, we've had too many flankers or half-forward types. Time to go for the specific need and this is what we need. A big defender/forward would be handy too.

yeh agree a key tall defender should be a priority, We have Justin Clarke who is developing nicely from all accounts but we need a big strong defender in the mould of merret. saucehead, pattfull and maguire are all comming to the end of there playing time, so its better to get somebody in now.

 

[POBT]

I think the club believes that Rich, Rockliff and Redden will form the core of its inside midfield capability. However, if we spend another year at the bottom of the table when it comes to stoppage work and contested footy, then I think the club needs to re-think that. In that case, I would love a really big unit in the midfield (unless Lester comes through).

Having said that, Conway looks like a grunt merchant and would probably play inside mid.

We probably need the rest of this season to assess where Close, Paparone, Clarke, McKeever, Lisle etc are at. We have quite a lot of young KPPs. Quality is the big question mark though. If we think that 3 of those guys will develop into viable options in the key posts (plus Tickner I guess), then we don't have to go too tall in the draft.

 

[sonofabeams]

I think the club believes that Rich, Rockliff and Redden will form the core of its inside midfield capability. However, if we spend another year at the bottom of the table when it comes to stoppage work and contested footy, then I think the club needs to re-think that. In that case, I would love a really big unit in the midfield (unless Lester comes through).

Having said that, Conway looks like a grunt merchant and would probably play inside mid.

We probably need the rest of this season to assess where Close, Paparone, Clarke, McKeever, Lisle etc are at. We have quite a lot of young KPPs. Quality is the big question mark though. If we think that 3 of those guys will develop into viable options in the key posts (plus Tickner I guess), then we don't have to go too tall in the draft.

Exactly like the quality over quantity especially in KPP players, look at the bulldogs they have several tall marking foward options but none of any great quality.

 

[JasRulz63]

Of course, the big advantage is if we have multiple Academy players who are draft-worthy. That's when we could conveivably pick up a bargain or two.

Even bigger advantage is if they are rated to go around the same time in the draft. e.g. Tickner and Conway are both rated second rounders, provided clubs bid to makes us match that, we'd be able to pick them up for a second and third rounder.

 

[Triple R]

yeh agree a key tall defender should be a priority, We have Justin Clarke who is developing nicely from all accounts but we need a big strong defender in the mould of merret. saucehead, pattfull and maguire are all comming to the end of there playing time, so its better to get somebody in now.

Possibly, but with what I've seen of Jordan Bourke he could be quite the power backman. He is agressive and reads the play quite well. Still early in development but there is plenty to like.

He looks like he could fill out and play that power role, along with his athleticism he could be a good replacement for Patfull or even Sauce.

 

[Triple R]

Even bigger advantage is if they are rated to go around the same time in the draft. e.g. Tickner and Conway are both rated second rounders, provided clubs bid to makes us match that, we'd be able to pick them up for a second and third rounder.

So if Izzy plays even one good game in the under 18's then we ask (tell) him to stop playing so we can get him cheap at the draft...same goes for Tickner.

 

[POBT]

Even bigger advantage is if they are rated to go around the same time in the draft. e.g. Tickner and Conway are both rated second rounders, provided clubs bid to makes us match that, we'd be able to pick them up for a second and third rounder.

Yeah, that's what I meant. The ideal outcome is for us to have 4 first round worthy players in the Academy.

 

[pulsade]

I think we still need to go after elite midfielders. As much as we love the potential of Rich, Redden and Rockliff at the moment they are not dominating many other midfields most weeks. Have a look at other clubs top 4 or 5 midfielders and compare them to ours. For me we are still really lacking that consistency to be an even average midfield. We have a ton of depth across the wing and small/medium defenders.

I think we have a really good history at developing key defenders, Bourke and Clark are showing a lot of potential so as long as Merrett, Goose and JPat can hold the fort for the next few years I think we will be okay in that sense.

We are getting to the point where we have so many key forwards that without losing any this season it will be hard to develop them appropriately in the twos. Lisle, Ace, Paps, Close, Martin, Michael, Billy all should be spending some time at forward if not in the senior team.

I think given our list it is important to draft the best position available rather than drafting for need. But for me I think it is midfield that we really need to improve long term and hopefully Rich, Redden and Rocky can do that. One of my favourite sayings in sports is, 'Don't confuse hope for a plan.'

 

[jjami15]

I think we still need to go after elite midfielders. As much as we love the potential of Rich, Redden and Rockliff at the moment they are not dominating many other midfields most weeks. Have a look at other clubs top 4 or 5 midfielders and compare them to ours. For me we are still really lacking that consistency to be an even average midfield. We have a ton of depth across the wing and small/medium defenders.

I think we have a really good history at developing key defenders, Bourke and Clark are showing a lot of potential so as long as Merrett, Goose and JPat can hold the fort for the next few years I think we will be okay in that sense.

We are getting to the point where we have so many key forwards that without losing any this season it will be hard to develop them appropriately in the twos. Lisle, Ace, Paps, Close, Martin, Michael, Billy all should be spending some time at forward if not in the senior team.

I think given our list it is important to draft the best position available rather than drafting for need. But for me I think it is midfield that we really need to improve long term and hopefully Rich, Redden and Rocky can do that. One of my favourite sayings in sports is, 'Don't confuse hope for a plan.'

Liked your thoughts on the 3R's however I disagree on the supposed over abundance of KPF's . IMO Lisle, Ace and Martin are not going to make it, Paps is no KPF, I liken him to a Westhoff in running ability and build. Michael is a rookie and Close is a new draftee with the possibility of playing back. In saying that I would love to draft a quality KPF (Boyd) or that quality inside mid (Dunstan). But that doesn't vary to much from last year in Hogan and then Wines.

 

[Bucking Beads]

We need elite talent on every line barring ruckmen so best available at first pick will probably be the go this year. Would be great if we can pick up some of the academy kids though.

 

[dlanod]

So if Izzy plays even one good game in the under 18's then we ask (tell) him to stop playing so we can get him cheap at the draft...same goes for Tickner.

Look at what a good year of competition has done for the likes of O'Meara, Crouch, etc, by being nurtured by their club in their reserves comp. I think the club would be likely to rate giving the kids the chance to taste a better level of competition (and also judge the kids against that level) rather than hide them away for a bargain.

 

[pulsade]

Liked your thoughts on the 3R's however I disagree on the supposed over abundance of KPF's . IMO Lisle, Ace and Martin are not going to make it, Paps is no KPF, I liken him to a Westhoff in running ability and build. Michael is a rookie and Close is a new draftee with the possibility of playing back. In saying that I would love to draft a quality KPF (Boyd) or that quality inside mid (Dunstan). But that doesn't vary to much from last year in Hogan and then Wines.

If Lisle, Ace and Martin are not going to make it they need to be off the list pretty quickly. Also Mckeever is kind of in that group as well. I think both Lisle and Ace have potential but they need to play games, having Merrett as a forward last year seemed really short sighted. There is no use drafting or trading for talls if they are not really given time to get used to AFL level footy.

I would have been more than happy with Hogan or Wines but I think Mayes matches our list really well and think he was the best available. I'd be fine with Boyd but I doubt he will be there when we pick (surely he is top 2 or 3).

I think the real issue is we have been absolutely spoiled with KPF talent over the last 20 years with Merrett, Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw and these players aren't replaceable.

 

[jjami15]

If Lisle, Ace and Martin are not going to make it they need to be off the list pretty quickly. Also Mckeever is kind of in that group as well. I think both Lisle and Ace have potential but they need to play games, having Merrett as a forward last year seemed really short sighted. There is no use drafting or trading for talls if they are not really given time to get used to AFL level footy.

I would have been more than happy with Hogan or Wines but I think Mayes matches our list really well and think he was the best available. I'd be fine with Boyd but I doubt he will be there when we pick (surely he is top 2 or 3).

I think the real issue is we have been absolutely spoiled with KPF talent over the last 20 years with Merrett, Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw and these players aren't replaceable.

I agree with your sentiments in some part but I just don't see them being elite or even close to that. I believe that you do need some depth there however and that's our lot that we have. Yes, Boyd will be gone most likely and there goes another top KPF draftee. For me the picture is trying to build a team that can play finals and then the big one. There is no guarantee in draftees but the percentages are the top picks, in KPF's, turn out to be potent forward line players.

I have no gripes with drafting Mayes as watching him play he already has that old head on young shoulders and just love watching the ball come off his boot. I know he has played seniors in SA but come on he's playing top flight AFL and showing others on our team a thing or two. So it says a thing or two about his ability.

 

[POBT]

A mate of mine from Adelaide says to keep an eye on Scharenberg (sp?). Reckons he's a gun and would suit our style of play in terms of winning the ball in the back half and rebounding.

 

[Dan12]

Do we really need a rebounding half back though? Thought we'd have that position covered and a key forward or inside mid would be more pressing needs.

 

[theteamtobeat]

1st Round (Pick 7-9):
Matt Crouch (VIC – Mid)
Height: 182cm, Weight: 75kg, DOB: 21/04/1995
Recruited from: North Ballarat Rebels
Style: Brad Sewell
Player comparison:
Range: 5-20
Profile: Crouch is an elite inside player. Real stoppage specialist. Hard at the ball and a really natural inside extractor burrowing in, winning the ball and setting up the receivers outside of the pack by hand. He does it as well as any and just thrives on that contested ball type game as that clearance specialist. Crouch is also an exceptional tackler showing strong tackling technique and really going in hard with those tackles and it seems to be another area of the game that he just really enjoys. He has good endurance and has good agility.
2012 TAC Average: (Disposal 25.66, Goals 0.53, CM .4, Marks 3.33, Tackles 4.33)
Or
Jack Billings (VIC – Fwd/Mid)
Height: 182cm, Weight: 73kg, DOB: 18/08/1995
Recruited from: Oakleigh Chargers
Style: Nick Dal Santo (harder version)
Player comparison:
Range: 3-15
Profile: Billings is a very high level footballer already and I’ve been really impressed very impressed with his play at a national level, in the TAC and also in APS footy and just seems a class above at any level. Jack stands out with his elite footskills, very duel sided and can both finish around goal easily just knowing where the goals are but also has the playmaking ability to find and set up other players forward of centre and doing damage that way. Whenever he has ball in hand regardless of pressure he just uses it really well and looks really comfortable out there. The other major feature of Jack’s game is his overhead marking ability. He’s not tall but for his height his marking is a real highlight marking it at the highest point, but has those genuine sticky hands where he just takes it every time and also has strong 1v1 marking ability allowing him to be a big weapon when played forward.
2012 TAC Average: (Disposal 19.1, Goals 1.3, CM 0.8, Marks 6.5, Tackles 2)
or
Dominic Sheed (WA – Mid)
Height: 184cm, Weight: 79kg, DOB: 10/03/1995
Recruited from: Subiaco
Style: Scott Pendlebury
Player comparison:
Range: 3-15
Profile: Really high production midfielder with some real class to him. Just uses the footy so well by hand and foot and seems to have more time to use it than the next player. Sheed is more your finesse midfielder who just plays a smart game with good positioning, runs into the right positions to receive it and reads the game really well. Sheed has a good running game and is more of an agile, high motor guy as opposed to a linebreaker. Plenty to like and probably one who should be spoken about more as a high end prospect with the way he has produced.
2012 WAFL Average: (Disposal 22.66, Goals 0.5, Marks 6.41, Tackles 0.91)

2nd Round (Pick 30-32): ?

3rd Round (Pick 49-52): Rookie Upgrade: Justin Clarke, Jordon Bourke or Callum Bartlett

Pre-Season Draft
1st Round:
Isaac Conway (Brisbane - QLD – Mid)
Height: 183cm, Weight: 82kg, DOB: 29/05/1995
Recruited from:
Style:
Player comparison: Brock McLean
Range: 1st – 3rd round
Profile: Strong bodied inside midfielder with real size on his frame. Real stoppage specialist and will win those clearances consistently. Big inside ball winner. Tackling game strong. Has a strong two way game and can play a shutdown role when required. Endurance good but pace below average. As is the case with many of these strong bodied inside midfielders he lacks any outside game. Skills can improve with his foot skills in particular below average.
2nd Round: Cain Tickner
3rd Round: ?

 

[JasRulz63]

Probably worth giving credit to where you got those profiles from
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2013-phantom-draft.983436/

Also with Conway, he'll most likely have to be taken during the national draft. At this stage it's looking like a second rounder for him.

 

[jasonrampage2010]

Who is Conway and why are we in best position to get him before gold coast?

 

[POBT]

Do we really need a rebounding half back though? Thought we'd have that position covered and a key forward or inside mid would be more pressing needs.

It depends on how tall he plays. If he plays like a legitimate 3rd tall and still reads the game well and rebounds, I think he'd be a good fit. I'd really like someone who can control the game from the defensive half.

 

[Bert Man]

How big is the difference between Tickner and Conway in terms of where they rank ATM.

 

[jackess]

Aish.