List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Reptilia]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-26/26-days-to-the-draft-meet-marcus-bontempelli

Some risk, but I'd be excited if we ended up with Bontempelli

yes yes yes.

 

[GrandBlue]

My 2 cents on all draftees around the pick 4 range.

Tom Boyd- I've actually come to think that he might be the slimmest of chances to slip past GWS's first two picks. Although highly unlikely, I don't think a Key-Forward is #1 on their agenda, and there seem to be a number of guys the Giants are into. However, he won't slip past the Saints. Verdict: 0% chance of being drafted by the Bulldogs.

James Aish- It doesn't look like GWS are interested at all and the Saints are rumoured to be interested in Kelly and Billings, so if that's anything to go by, there's a fairly decent chance he'll slip to pick 4. Whether or not we'd feel inclined to take him is a mystery. Oozes class, extremely high quality kick on both feet, excellent composure, he's pretty much exactly what our midfield is crying for, a guy who can do the damage. There are injury concerns and most of his possessions are uncontested, but he still strikes me as the type of player that has too much talent to wind up a flop. Not sure he's the type of player McCartney would want for a tough, fast paced Geelong style team, but he's well worth pick 4 nonetheless. Verdict: Hard to say whether or not we want him, but I hope we do.

Matt Scharenberg- He's not the most technically brilliant player, and I question his versatility somewhat given he played the vast majority of the Championships in defence as a Key-Position Player (a role I don't think he'll play at AFL Level due to his 190cm height), but his physical attributes are very good and he's an incredibly smart player. Always knows what to do when extracting the ball from defence, whether it's beating a man or two or kicking to the right option, and it's because he's this smart that I don't think he'd have trouble adapting to a role in the midfield at all (like others, I think he'd play a similar game to Josh Kennedy or Nat Fyfe in the midfield). Really reminds me of a taller version of Corey Enright, although I still can't help but think he might be a little vanilla, especially considering the quality players that will likely be available. I think he's exactly the type of player McCartney wants in the team though, so I think we're a huge chance of getting him. Verdict: I won't complain as I think he's sure to establish himself as an AFL Player, but he's not my first choice; think we're highly likely to select him however.

Josh Kelly- I think there's a fairly sizeable chance he'll be gone before our pick. Like Aish, I think he offers us exactly what we need; class, high quality kicks etc. While he doesn't have Aish's all-round game (Kelly's very one-footed), he makes up for it with his huge tank, lack of injuries and a very high standard of professionalism. Definitely a player I think we should consider if he's available. Verdict: I approve, but unlikely to be available.

Jack Billings- Yet another player that's loaded with class. Very good kick on both feet, reads the game like a true pro, surprisingly good overhead and it isn't hard to see where the comparisons to Jimmy Bartel come from as they play eerily similar games. My main problem with him is that I've barely seen him play in the midfield; he played the vast majority of the Championships as a small/medium forward, and while he was very good, I'm still left unsure as to whether it's logical to take a guy who's spent 2 seasons playing solely in the forward line when there could be a guy like James Aish available. Sure, he gives us exactly what we're after, but while those uncertainties linger, I'd prefer us to select a guy who we know will play that classy midfielder role we're craving for. Like Scharenberg however, I think he's the type McCartney loves, even when factoring in that he's a little suspect defensively, and will want to add to the team Verdict: Not my first choice, but I think there's a big chance we'll take him, providing the Saints don't.

Marcus Bontempelli- The Wildcard Pick. He's not the surest chance to develop into an established AFL Player, but his ceiling is as high as any. A 192cm Midfielder who's capable of playing both down back and up forward, Bontempelli boasts great athleticism, line-breaking pace and possesses a booming 60 meter kick. Not the most natural footballer in the draft, nor is he the most consistent, but he's a rare type of player that every club would love to have on their list, and fills not one, but two needs for us; someone with both line-breaking pace and some much needed height for the midfield. He's certainly a risk, but he could well develop into the next Anthony Koutoufides. Verdict: I'd love him, but I don't think our recruiters will have the guts. He’s also a decent chance to be gone by our pick with GWS supposedly keen.

Lewis Taylor- My favourite prospect in the draft by quite some distance. Boasts line-breaking pace & agility, the brain of a senior AFL player, great vision, tactical awareness, goal sense and leadership qualities. Considering all that, you'd think he'd be a certainty to get selected in the top 2. Unfortunately, because of his 174cm frame, he likely won't be selected by us, which I think is outrageous. While tall midfielders have their merits, talents like Lewis Taylor should simply be too good to pass up, and I think every club that passes on him will definitely regret it. I still think we're a slim chance of selecting him, as he's a very Geelong style player which McCartney will no doubt like, but I'm not getting my hopes up. If I were to make a comparison to an AFL Player, he's like a hybrid of Brent Harvey & Sam Mitchell Verdict: Absolutely want him, probably won't get him.

Kade Kolodjashnij- I haven't seen too much of this guy, but from what I have seen, I've been very impressed. A very classy Bob Murphy-style half-back flanker with silky evasive skills and excellent kicking. Some might question using an early pick on a guy who's played the vast majority of football in defence, but I think these rebounding defenders are important to how a team sets up their attack, and I think Kolodjashnij will be in the top bracket as far as rebounding defenders go. He's not the best defensively, but we had a lot of problems kicking out of defence last season, so I'd be prepared to sacrifice a bit of defensive steel for some class coming out of the backline. Verdict: I think he'd be a very good pick. I can see him being our 2nd-3rd option.

 

[_M_16_]

I know it is still way to early to call. But if next years draft does end up running deep, especially with forwards and defenders, I hope we are able to some how do a Collingwood or a St.Kilda and move a couple of picks up a few places, or secure some extra ones, without having to give up to much. You would think that with the type of draft pool like that, that it would be the right time to try and get an extra pick or two inside the top 30, or a two inside the first round.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Nice write-ups GrandBlue.

I'll post my thoughts sometime in the next couple of days but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Lennon.

 

[Aldo]

I don't always agree with you GrandBlue, but that was a very good write up. With what I've seen in highlights, reports and replays of the champs games, I agree with just about everything you said there. I'm not as big on Taylor obviously, but I have warmed up to him way more over the year. On performances and just overall completeness in his game, he's got to be one of, if not the best players this year. A shame that genetics is going to make some teams overlook him.

 

[Reptilia]

Knightmare's phantom draft has been updated if anyone is interested.

 

[scooter600x]

Best available is a crock.

No-one has any idea which of a dozen players will be the better player. Does anyone really think that the order would be remotely similar if it was done again in 5 years time?

No dwarfs (Taylor), no inside mids (Crouch) and no small forwards even if they can mark (Billings).

We need pace and kicking skills or a mid-sized half-back with a German name.

 

[Dogsman16]

Just had a look at Knightmare's phantom seems Conlon is completely off the radar, might even be lucky to get a rookie spot.

Thinking our pick 42 could be just as interesting as our pick 4 which is hopefully Aish. According to Knightmare a few few forwards/2nd rucks could drop at around 42 including Harvey, Brown, Cameron, Nankervis, Hourigan maybe even Apeness who is as high as 25. Not real keen on Hourigan as we have so many tall/midsized key forwards but a Full/Forward/2nd ruck in the Tippett/Vickery mould could be real useful when Minson goes and Campbell slots in at Number 1 ruck.
Cameron Giles could also go round that mark.
Keen to hear peoples preference.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

If Harvey's there at 42 I would snap him up in a second. Conlon probably my second preference, followed by Brown, Hourigan, Apeness, Giles and then Nankervis.

 

[zephskinner26]

Knightmare's phantom draft has been updated if anyone is interested.

I like the comparison of Aish to Jarrad McVeigh. Probably one of the better comparisons I've seen. I like how he has Blake Acres highly rated. He seems to be underrated a bit, if I had a pick from 7 onwards I'd be looking hard at him. I think people just assume West Coast will take Sheed but I think they should take Acres. Interesting to see him so low on Scharenberg. I'd be happy with him at 4. Any of Aish, Billings or Scharenberg would be awesome (assuming Kelly is gone). I'm finding it hard to pick who my preference is because they are all so different but I guess it would be better not to and not be disappointed when we don't draft them . Would be awesome if Sicily actually fell to pick 42. I tend to like guys that can take grabs and play in the midfield. I think its something we lack a bit thats why Scharenberg or Billings (assuming they can play midfield) would be good options. Stringer has a chance to be that guy though, but our other guys not as much. Bontempelli is another who can take grabs but I'm sorry he might turn out to be a superstar but we can't risk pick 4 on him with the other talent on offer. I wouldn't be upset if we took him, just wouldn't think it to be wise. KK obviously not a bad option either since he looks like he would fill the biggest hole left by a vet in Bob Murphy. So many options

 

[_M_16_]

Just read up on Knightmare's updated phantom draft.

Aish, Sicily and Fort. I would actually be pretty happy with that draft to be honest, if they were the picks we ended up with.

 

[Super Hans]

Still baffles me that clubs might not even pick up Gartlett, how often do you get a crack at top five talent with a pick in the 40's? Really hope we go for him.

Aish, Brown and Gartlett would get a 10/10 for me.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

My order of preference for who we take at 4.

1. Boyd (I CAN DREAM DAMN IT!!!)
2. Aish (Just class, seems like a great kid as well in every interview I've seen with him.)
3. Taylor (I don't care about his hight, has everything else.)
4. KK (Crazy upside, can run, jump, kick, step, just needs strength and CF to complete the package, could be the best player in the draft or a 'what were we thinking' guy, Div 2 guys are difficult)
5. Billings (I go back and forth over what he is, but he defiantly seems like the type of player B-Mac would adore, be it forward or mid).
6. Freeman (SPEED!!! NOT BAD FOOTSKILLS!!!! NOT BAD ENDURANCE!!!! CLEARANCES!!!)
7. Shazza (People say Sam Fisher like its a slight, in those GF's St.K went to, he was a hell of a player.)
8. Bontempelli (Who knows what this kid could be???? A lot like KK except taller and less athletic I think, not that he's un-athletic just doesn't have a 9 inch vertical like KK.)
9. Kelly (I'm probably wrong on this one, has elite endurance and interviews real well, not sure about his disposal compared to Aish and Billings, his ball seems a bit more floaty compared to theirs.)
10. Marsh (Its extremely rare that someone that big can be that fast.)

 

[Dav1d]

Mine is 1. Boyd 2. Aish 3. Kelly 4. Taylor 5. Scharenberg 6. Bontempelli 7. KK 8. Billings 9. Freeman 10. Crouch

But I've seen more of 1-5 then 6-10

 

[Reptilia]

mine preferences are

1.Boyd, 2 Bontempelli, 3. Billings, 4. Scharenberg, 5.Aish, 6. Kelly, 7. Blake Acres, 8. Crouch, 9. KK, 10. Ben Lennon.

(Im just the average big footy guy but from what i've seen thats what I like. )

 

[GrandBlue]

mine preferences are

1.Boyd, 2 Bontempelli, 3. Billings, 4. Scharenberg, 5.Aish, 6. Kelly, 7. Blake Acres, 8. Crouch, 9. KK, 10. Ben Lennon.

(Im just the average big footy guy but from what i've seen thats what I like. )

You'd take Matt Crouch, a vanilla inside midfielder over Lewis Taylor & Kade Kolodjashnij? Why's that?

 

[Mutt]

You'd take Matt Crouch, a vanilla inside midfielder over Lewis Taylor & Kade Kolodjashnij? Why's that?

When you put the question that way, I wonder if you want an answer. By the way, nice write-up on our prospects as you see them.

 

[Reptilia]

You'd take Matt Crouch, a vanilla inside midfielder over Lewis Taylor & Kade Kolodjashnij? Why's that?

Yeah good point. I kind of put him in there because from what I've seen from watching the champs and read about him he seems like a sure thing in terms of becoming a player. We don't really need another inside player but in saying that once Griffen and Boyd retire I reckon we might lack a bit there.

I havent really taken much notice of Taylor.. but a few on here seem to like him who most likely have better football knowledge than me.

Just saying how I saw it pretty much.

 

[GrandBlue]

Yeah good point. I kind of put him in there because from what I've seen from watching the champs and read about him he seems like a sure thing in terms of becoming a player. We don't really need another inside player but in saying that once Griffen and Boyd retire I reckon we might lack a bit there.

I havent really taken much notice of Taylor.. but a few on here seem to like him who most likely have better football knowledge than me.

Just saying how I saw it pretty much.

Griffen will be continuing well into his 30s, and as for Boyd, I'd imagine at least one of Mitch Wallis, Clay Smith, Easton Wood, Jake Stringer, Jackson Macrae, Nathan Hrovat or Josh Prudden will be able to fill his shoes. Those guys go along with Tom Liberatore, Koby Stevens, Liam Picken and Ryan Griffen, inside midfielders already cemented in the team.

I know our recruiters love them, but at this point in time, inside midfielders should be well at the bottom of our list of priorities. We need some class & skill by foot, so I think guys like Kolodjashnij should be high on our agenda.

 

[GrandBlue]

Nice write-ups GrandBlue.

I'll post my thoughts sometime in the next couple of days but in the meantime I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on Lennon.

Has some really good qualities, but I have a feeling he won't make a seemless transition to AFL Football. I remember he was very quiet in one of the games I saw (Metro vs Country), and in another, he was a bit hit or miss. He played up forward in both games though, not sure how he goes as a defender. [edit] I'm also pretty certain we won't be taking him at pick 4.

But hey, why bother with my little summary when you can get Big, Juicy Posts like this from the Brisbane Board:

For a different perspective on Lennon.

Ben Lennon
DOB 5/7/95 Ht 189 Wt 80

Lennon has been a Twomey love child this year, putting out several articles telling us how great Lennon is and how he is a virtual certainty for the top 10. Play anywhere on the ground, explosive, elite kick yadda yadda yadda. Well personally I do not see it. He looks like the typical second tier Metro kid who finishes the year well and they are talked up out of all proportion. A lot of people on BF have jumped onboard the Lennon love train and it is possible that I am wrong but if he is taken in the top 10 I am going to be shocked. This is not a case where I rate his tools a bit differently to others I just do not see him having those tools to start with.

Lets start with probably the big issue. Of the flanker/midfield groups he would sit firmly at or very close to bottom for athleticism and very real questions have to be asked about whether he has the athletic ability to play at AFL level most especially in his preferred HFF role. Lets start physically. 189cm is pretty good for a midfielder but it is getting to be pretty average for a flanker and combine that with short arms and small hands and we are not off to a fantastic start in supposedly his strength area. Another thing which gets talked up is his explosiveness. Well he was bottom 20% (this includes rucks remember) over the first 5m of the 20m sprint and his back half was nothing out of the ordinary leaving him with a time in the 3.20 range. So pace and explosiveness are a cross. I will say that his repeat sprints were better but that only put him up into the average category.

I have seen show a good lateral movement to evade tacklers but I have also seen him get nailed by tacklers that I thought he should have been able to step around and so I was interested to see what he scored in the agility test. Bottom 5%. The only players who scored worse than him on the agility test were a few rucks and many of them scored better than him. I will say that I was surprised with the result. I had a big range in my mind where he could go but bottom 5% was well below where I thought he would end up. Beep in the mid 13s was nothing to write home about and a bottom 25% in the 3km was disappointing. A lot of the highlights for Lennon are him taking nice marks so jumping was expected to be decent at the very least. Well he was bottom 10% in the vertical and below 50% in each of the running jumps.

If I am honest I will concede that these results surprised me a lot. I did not expect him to be a stand out athlete but I did think he was probably going to be above average. He obviously plays better than he tests but these sort of athletic deficiencies are often found out at AFL level when playing against guys who are just as smart as you are as a footballer and are much superior athletes. So even before we start to look at his game there are big question marks.

Okay onto his game and I hear a lot of talk about how great a kick Lennon is. Pin point passes over 50m to hit guys in stride on the chest. Well I have to say that I have missed those ones. I would say that Lennon is a good kick but I am not seeing it as being elite and it is probably a fair way from that. He does have good penetration and can hoof it 55m. His usual approach is to go with long or 3/4 kicks which are most often to contests. He does not tend to look to use short to intermediate targets as much as he should and will probably be instructed to lower his eyes more at AFL level. I do not rate his decision making or vision as being anything more than average for his position. He tends to take obvious targets which is not bad but I do not see him setting up play like Billings say who played a similar role at the Champs. Around goals he could also be better and will miss goals you would like to see him get. He waves the ball a little in his set shot approach but nothing too bad. As with his field kicking he has good range and might actually be better further from goal where the pressure is on him a bit less.

Okay I have been very harsh on him up to this time. What does he do well? Well his marking gets a lot of praise and I would tend to agree with that. I think his hands are good (but not great) and he uses his body excellently in marking contests. He is strong through the core and maintains focus and balance really well in body on body situations. He judges the ball in the air pretty well and marks most that come his way. With the ball on the ground he has really clean hands for a flanker and this gives him a bit more time to work with than others. He can swoop and collect at pace and make opportunities.

Lennon does have some class about him and good things do often happen when he is involved in the play. This is a little hard to explain but I think he has good football IQ about some things (reading the play, body work, positioning around goal) but I probably couldn't say that about everything (decision making, leading and passing lanes). In most games there will be a wow moment or two which really make you notice him - a spin move out of a pack, a swooping pick up and go etc.

Teams have wanted to see him more as a midfielder this year (you can probably hide athletic deficiencies a little more there) and credit too him that he stood up and put up some good numbers there in the TAC. He did not play a heap of games but averaged 25 disposals a game over the year and 28 disposals over the last 4 or 5 games when playing a lot of midfield time. He played as a half forward at the Champs and only managed 12.6 disposals per game which I did not think was a particularly good return. I particularly followed him in the SA game where he matched up on Scharenberg quite a bit and Scharenberg gave him an absolute bath. The difference in ability was very evident in that game and cemented for me that he was not in that class and definitely not a top 10 pick for me.

If I was looking at him I would be trying to develop him into a Sidebottom type midfielder who can go forward. Sidebottom is also not the most athletic player in the world and has a similar good but not great kick. Sidebottom's decision making are probably better than Lennon's but you would hope that would come. Lennon's clean hands also allow some prospect that he will develop a decent inside game as he gets more time on ball. I have been pretty harsh on Lennon but I have to stress that I actually don't mind him as a prospect. I just think talk of him being a top 10er should be way off base.

Need extra draft info? Don't bother with the Draft & Trading board, the Lions Draft Discussion thread is where all the good stuff is at.

 

[scooter600x]

Has some really good qualities, but I have a feeling he won't make a seemless transition to AFL Football. I remember he was very quiet in one of the games I saw (Metro vs Country), and in another, he was a bit hit or miss. He played up forward in both games though, not sure how he goes as a defender. [edit] I'm also pretty certain we won't be taking him at pick 4.

But hey, why bother with my little summary when you can get Big, Juicy Posts like this from the Brisbane Board:


Need extra draft info? Don't bother with the Draft & Trading board, the Lions Draft Discussion thread is where all the good stuff is at.

That's sensation info. I was really big on him from watching him in the champs but I wouldn't go near anyone who tested so poorly.

That's like Brodie Mihacek (?) from a year or two ago.

 

[Wizard17]

My Preferences
1. Aish
2. Kelly
3. Kolodjashnij
4. Sharenberg
5. Bontempelli
6. Freeman
7. Lennon
8. Billings
9. Taylor
10. Sheed

My Current Top Ten

GWS - Tom Boyd
GWS - Josh Kelly
STK - James Aish
WB - Kade Kolodjashnij
GC - Jack Billings
Coll - Marcus Bontempelli
Bris - Matthew Sharenberg
Kan - Luke McDonald
Mel - Nathan Freeman
Coll - Ben Lennon

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

My preferences:

1. Boyd
2. Aish
3. Kelly
4. Lennon
5. Kolodjashnij
6. Freeman
7. Taylor
8. Billings
9. Scharenberg
10. Sheed

Top ten:

GWS - Tom Boyd
GWS - Josh Kelly
STK - James Aish
WB - Matt Scharenberg
GC - Kade Kolodjashnij
Coll - Marcus Bontempelli
Bris - Ben Lennon
Kan - Luke McDonald
Mel - Nathan Freeman
Coll - Jack Billings

 

[Wizard17]

If the top three fall as me and Dannnnnnnnnn believe then it'll be toss up between one of Sharenberg or KK. We'll look to complete our defense especially in transition which is why I think KK is slightly higher up the leaderboard... for now. I think we have a KHB for a packet of chips next year... So logic says Brown third round and if he isn't available maybe another Tassie kid or SA kid (depending on who we get at 4), Reynolds, Grey, Alex Pearce, JK, Harvey (a pipe dream). Don't know many others around there it's a bit of a lottery.

 

[fronkalicious]

Had some info come to me this morning. Probably not surprising, but yes, we are into aish.

Feeling from the chap this morning was that billings and aish are very line ball for us, but that there is a high likelihood that billings is off the board by the time our selection comes.