List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[TempleKelvington]

I think Billings from your list fits what we lack most - the ability to turn hard won scraps into attacking play. However, Aish is supposed to be good at disposal in tight situations as well. If Billings is off the table, he sounds like the next safest best bet to meet our needs.

Freeman to me sounds like he has the explosive burst from congestion of a Cooney, but without the finishing skills. And we have plenty of guys who can win the ball and throw it on the boot already. Maybe his disposal will improve to the point where his ability to burst from a stoppage actually matters, but maybe it wont. That doesnt sound like a pick 4 to me.

We need, as you say, a weapon. Serious hurt factor with disposal. That puts Freeman down the list, for me.

As for Bongo (Bontompelli), we are again looking at a risk - he is more of an outside player who can kick it OK in space, and is OK in close because he is hard to wrap up and has a good attacking handball rather than being able to get clear and kick it.

I suppose you would be looking at the 'all over the ground effect' with this guy, rather than a stoppage specialist - someone who could run hard into defence or attack and be an aerial threat at either end. You can see how that could effect a game in a way that Libba or Dalhaus simply cant -- a 193cm mid who can mark the ball is very appealing. Nat Fyffe with a better kick? But Jarrod Grants attributes are also very appealing - in theory...

Is Scharenberg really off the table? He seems to share a number of attributes with Bongo, but hasnt shown the proven ability in the midfield. He seems to me like the Brendan Goddard type who is capable of playing midfield but is better at either end, whereas Bongo seems like the NAt Fyffe type who is capable of playing at either end but is better in the midfield.

Would anyone who has actually seen these guys in person say if thats right or wrong?

Agree on Freeman he's quick but I query his use at draft time he derserves to be rated lower than a few others.
Billings.....i'm not sure I can only go from what little I see but he is down the list for me. Experts really rave about him though.
Bongo as you call him, I like the 190 ish potential mids...because of the untility factor and I like taller mids in the mix.
Scharenberg...as above, great size and if he can play mid then we should grab him, just shades Aish for me.
KK.....Looks a good one...bit one sided maybe? So I rate him a bit lower.

The good news for me is that GWS love Kelly(so they say)....so that means we will get either...Scharenberg, Aish, Bontempelli or Billings.....we will get a very good player. Don't get me wrong Kelly looks good....but I just like the others a little bit more.

The thing we don't know....is what are these guys like as people....will they fit in with what Macca wants.....that is the missing component and will be the difference betweem them in the end perhaps.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Another thought ... is it a problem to only add 2 new players to list? Perhaps we'll get 1 more in the rookie draft, with the Goodes upgrade? The bonds that groups like Murph, Gia, Gilbee, Hahn, Shaggy ... form are invaluable for a strong culture? Does only adding 2-3 players minimise this? Maybe with our young group, they'll help support the transition.

we picked up 5 kids in the draft last year who like the group you mentioned will grow together and then we added Goodes also....I don't think you can turn the list over that much every year.....plus this draft is reported to be shallow....we might load up again next year perhaps?

 

[doggies ftw]

After reading Quigleys mock I want Billings again

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

After reading Quigleys mock I want Billings again

Quigley wouldn't be very happy with that...you're supposed to want some random div 2 player after reading his mock draft.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Might re-watch a few champs games tonight to see if I can convince myself to like Bontempelli.

 

[Zgope1]

Might re-watch a few champs games tonight to see if I can convince myself to like Bontempelli.

Funny you say that because i just watched the VM v VC game where he got 21 touches and a goal and i have to say... much more excited now. He butchers the ball once by foot early and apart from that everything he touched was fantastic. What i didn't realise about him that from this game i saw is that he has incredibly good vision/disposal by hand. He always gets a dish off to a team mate. His kicking is good, and penetrating without being elite. It kind of reminds me of Libba's kicking, maybe not quite as good but close. Other thing i noticed is how much ball he got in close even though he was instructed to play on the wing in this game in particular (poorly coached imo). Apparently he moved into the centre square by the end of the season and was impressive with clearances too. Seems like a good inside outside midfielder down the track to me who should create plenty of problems moving forward too being 194cm.

Now it's a win win. Stoked

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Funny you say that because i just watched the VM v VC game where he got 21 touches and a goal and i have to say... much more excited now. He butchers the ball once by foot early and apart from that everything he touched was fantastic. What i didn't realise about him that from this game i saw is that he has incredibly good vision/disposal by hand. He always gets a dish off to a team mate. His kicking is good, and penetrating without being elite. It kind of reminds me of Libba's kicking, maybe not quite as good but close. Other thing i noticed is how much ball he got in close even though he was instructed to play on the wing in this game in particular (poorly coached imo). Apparently he moved into the centre square by the end of the season and was impressive with clearances too. Seems like a good inside outside midfielder down the track to me who should create plenty of problems moving forward too being 194cm.

Now it's a win win. Stoked

See this is another one of my concerns. When watching him I got the feeling that he had an inside midfielder's kick as an outside player. That doesn't really make sense when I write it out but it makes sense in my head. Basically it came across as a really good kick out of packs as it gains ground and often goes to contests, but he doesn't really have as much of a pinpoint pass to a leading forward like you'd expect of an outside player. I know he's inside/outside but my point is that we're targeting sublime skills from someone who can pinpoint a pass forward and make the best out of our inside core's hard work; I just feel as though Bontempelli's going to give us another above average but not elite kick that goes to one on one forward line contests that we can't win. I'll watch the game you're talking about (for about the fourth time ) and see what I think.

 

[Zgope1]

See this is another one of my concerns. When watching him I got the feeling that he had an inside midfielder's kick as an outside player. That doesn't really make sense when I write it out but it makes sense in my head. Basically it came across as a really good kick out of packs as it gains ground and often goes to contests, but he doesn't really have as much of a pinpoint pass to a leading forward like you'd expect of an outside player. I know he's inside/outside but my point is that we're targeting sublime skills from someone who can pinpoint a pass forward and make the best out of our inside core's hard work; I just feel as though Bontempelli's going to give us another above average but not elite kick that goes to one on one forward line contests that we can't win. I'll watch the game you're talking about (for about the fourth time ) and see what I think.

yeah exactly. see what you think. personally i think he's got more scope to be able to kick on the run than say libba and would still be pretty confident having him kick inside 50 but i know exactly what you mean. It's just a happy little facet of his game. not his main strength

 

[Aldo]

Just on the stuff about height.

I was looking at the draftee profiles for this draft in last years AFL Prospectus. I think it was interesting noting how tall those players were back then and how much they have grown in the last year. How much they have grown is not a huge deal, but it can be a bit of an indicator as to how much physical growth these kids have left.

Jack Billings 2012: 179cm 2013: 185cm
Josh Kelly 2012: 180cm 2013: 184cm
James Aish 2012: 183cm 2013: 184cm
Matt Scharenberg 2012: 189cm 2013: 191cm
Marcus Bontempelli 2012: 188cm 2013: 194cm

I think the notable ones there are Billings and Bontempelli, who had significant growth spurts this year. You would think both of them will keep growing taller.

Aish is the one there who has grown the least by far. May or may not be a worry.

Note: I used the heights from the AFL website. I'm not sure if they are the incorrect measurements that were made in the combine, or if they have been corrected.

 

[Dav1d]

Might re-watch a few champs games tonight to see if I can convince myself to like Bontempelli.

Huge 4th quarter against Vic Country

Very exciting player to watch as he takes huge strides as he runs and has good penetration on his kicks
Has the frame to be a giant and I am hopeful if we recruited him that we would teach him to attack more contests as in all the games I've seen him play, he has sort of hung at the back of a pack and waited for the ball to come to him

Damn kid can fly to

 

[BRG93]

In Order of Preference
Pick 4
Aish, Billings, Scharenberg & Bontempelli

Pick 42
Harvey, C. Giles, Hourigan, Cutler & Vandeleur

Pick 60 (Rookie)
Goodes

Rookie
Pick 4 (Assuming)
Conlon, B. Brown

 

[timtamWB]

Funny you say that because i just watched the VM v VC game where he got 21 touches and a goal and i have to say... much more excited now. He butchers the ball once by foot early and apart from that everything he touched was fantastic. What i didn't realise about him that from this game i saw is that he has incredibly good vision/disposal by hand. He always gets a dish off to a team mate. His kicking is good, and penetrating without being elite. It kind of reminds me of Libba's kicking, maybe not quite as good but close. Other thing i noticed is how much ball he got in close even though he was instructed to play on the wing in this game in particular (poorly coached imo). Apparently he moved into the centre square by the end of the season and was impressive with clearances too. Seems like a good inside outside midfielder down the track to me who should create plenty of problems moving forward too being 194cm.

Now it's a win win. Stoked

Just on this, if you went back and watched Tutt's first AFL game, then you wouldn't hesitate to take him with a top 5 pick. You need to base it on far more than just one game, and if it's just the one game that has made you think it's a win win, I suggest you watch some of his other games.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Just on the stuff about height.

I was looking at the draftee profiles for this draft in last years AFL Prospectus. I think it was interesting noting how tall those players were back then and how much they have grown in the last year. How much they have grown is not a huge deal, but it can be a bit of an indicator as to how much physical growth these kids have left.

Jack Billings 2012: 179cm 2013: 185cm
Josh Kelly 2012: 180cm 2013: 184cm
James Aish 2012: 183cm 2013: 184cm
Matt Scharenberg 2012: 189cm 2013: 191cm
Marcus Bontempelli 2012: 188cm 2013: 194cm

I think the notable ones there are Billings and Bontempelli, who had significant growth spurts this year. You would think both of them will keep growing taller.

Aish is the one there who has grown the least by far. May or may not be a worry.

Note: I used the heights from the AFL website. I'm not sure if they are the incorrect measurements that were made in the combine, or if they have been corrected.

Sorry, not sure I get this - what does it matter if Aish stays at 184cm?

 

[black pup]

I have said on here for weeks, just to bore you again. Bontempelli for me. I just hope we have the balls to pick him. I have know doubt he will develop into that gut running CHF we have been crying out for. Fortune favours the brave.

 

[GrandBlue]

So has it gotten to the point where player x pick 4 is almost a certainty? Is Bontempelli player x?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

So has it gotten to the point where pick 4 is almost a certainty? Is Bontempelli the big favourite now?

It seems to be either Bontempelli or Aish, and word is that we're cooling on Aish and heating up on Bontempelli.

 

[immortalmike]

Sorry, not sure I get this - what does it matter if Aish stays at 184cm?

Don't you know that all mids have to be key position height now?

All jokes aside, I like Billings, but the Saints look like getting him. After that Aish looks the next best pick, the comparisons to Farren Ray make me laugh though, as Aish's strength is Ray's biggest weakness i.e., composure, football nous and skill. A Farren Ray with those assets would've been a champion.

Bontempelli, looks great on paper and in highlights, but is he just fools gold? I like that he's a great mark and can play anywhere but there's no doubting he's the least consistent and credentialled of any of the potential top 10-15 picks.

 

[total football]

Just on the height thing... we all want a mid with good disposal and we all want a key forward either this year or next. If Bontempelli actually is 193/194cm like it has been reported, and we take him, then surely this is a two birds with one stone?

This would allow us to be very flexible in terms of our list management and on match day. With pick 42 we can specifically target the elite ball user/speed demon that our list desperately craves without feeling the need to draft talls speculatively, with a view to next year.

I'm not Bontempelli's biggest fan, I'm probably one of his biggest critics. But he is a very intriguing player.

It has nothing to do with ability anymore. All the games have been played and the coaching staff, list manager, recruiters etc have seen all the tapes. Any kid that gets drafted at pick 4 is going to have elite ability, there's no doubting that.

But it will be the interviews, which none of us are privy to, that will be the determining factor in who we take. Whether we take Bontempelli or Aish or Scharenberg or KK etc it doesn't matter, we are going to be taking the kid that we think we can get the most out of and who we think is going to have the better career for our footy club. All this will come across in the interviews, from coachability to home-sickness to maturity to dedication etc etc.

I always have and still do think Scharenberg or KK (if St. Kilda do as planned and take Billings) are our men, but when looking at it from that point of view, I'll be very excited if we take Bontempelli.

 

[Zgope1]

Just on this, if you went back and watched Tutt's first AFL game, then you wouldn't hesitate to take him with a top 5 pick. You need to base it on far more than just one game, and if it's just the one game that has made you think it's a win win, I suggest you watch some of his other games.

i've seen all of his other games from the champs hence why i haven't been keen on him. I've always said he doesn't have enough runs on the board and i'd pick Aish but his improvement across the champs across the tac cup is not to be sneezed at and i can see how they see something in him. And frankly i wasn't all that impressed by Tutt's first game. From what i remember he just kicked goals from handball recieves all day. I don't think my views on Bontempelli's strengths are off the mark and i think it's fair to say that his issue is staying in games and winning enough of the ball. This too has improved across the year. Like i've said, improvement is a big deal for recruiters

 

[Dale4captain]

I've been on the Bontempelli train for a while so I'm definitely not against taking him at 4. A bloke who has the scope to develop into a 6'5 100kg ruck rover will be a massive point of difference. He could rotate between CHB, RR and CHF all day which is what Macca loves. He also isn't a one dimensional mid, either. Can play both inside and outside and will never struggle with the contested side of his game simply because of his size and natural style. The more you think about it, is their a player in this draft that suits Bmac's ideal footballer more than Bontempelli? Versatile, a great person, massive scope for development, neat skills, hard at it. Exactly what Mac has been preaching to us the entire time..

Anyway, I'm still really interested in Conlon who by some miracle could still be available at pick 42 in which case we should leap at it. I know we really need some speed and skill, but Conlon is someone who I could see being a pretty decent utility. Has all the weapons and has shown previously that he can use them, just hasn't been on the park for quite some time. He may even turn out to be a decent CHB if developed properly. Could we pass up on his talent if available at 42?

 

[Dav1d]

 

[immortalmike]

Fair boot on him.

 

[Aldo]

Sorry, not sure I get this - what does it matter if Aish stays at 184cm?

There has been a lot of talk about player heights and how tall they may end up. Was listing how much players have grown over the last year, which could be an indication for how much more they'll grow.

However, if I were to try and extrapolate something from it, I suppose you could say that the players who grew less over the last year, perhaps have less physical development left in them. This surprised me with Aish since he is one of the youngest in crop, but I suppose some develop earlier than others.

 

[TempleKelvington]

This really was the draft to trade down imho. I would love to be in Collingwood's position with 2 first round picks.

Yes but they did lose some very good players...

 

[GiantDog]

Just on the stuff about height.

I was looking at the draftee profiles for this draft in last years AFL Prospectus. I think it was interesting noting how tall those players were back then and how much they have grown in the last year. How much they have grown is not a huge deal, but it can be a bit of an indicator as to how much physical growth these kids have left.

Jack Billings 2012: 179cm 2013: 185cm
Josh Kelly 2012: 180cm 2013: 184cm
James Aish 2012: 183cm 2013: 184cm
Matt Scharenberg 2012: 189cm 2013: 191cm
Marcus Bontempelli 2012: 188cm 2013: 194cm

I think the notable ones there are Billings and Bontempelli, who had significant growth spurts this year. You would think both of them will keep growing taller.

Aish is the one there who has grown the least by far. May or may not be a worry.

Note: I used the heights from the AFL website. I'm not sure if they are the incorrect measurements that were made in the combine, or if they have been corrected.

Isn't Aish younger than the rest of them though as well?? So maybe his spurt is still to come?