List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[timtamWB]

I would not get Aish
Big call, I know, the kid has nothing special - nothing
After Boyd, Kelly is the most likely

If we are after another midfielder, without doubt we should be jumping on Nathan Freeman - check out his highlights and stats. Takes on the game and thru traffic like there is no one there, super fast, and a long kick. Watch his repeat efforts.
Not sure why he is not rated higher, makes no sense.

Aish has nothing special, but Freeman does?

I would LOVE some of what you're smoking

 

[timtamWB]

It is five minutes of their highlights
It is what they do when they get the ball
It is their respective attributes
It's is their stats
Freemans superior speed and repeat running efforts are only confirmed by the combine tests
I don't imagine anyone would claim Aish is faster, or fitter, are they?

You know who apparently made a decision on who to take with their first pick based on the highlight reels of each player?

Richmond with Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls. That turned out well didn't it?

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Just curious, how many of you here, have actually watched full games of Aish? And not just one or two games and a highlights reel, either, but a few games, whether online, in person, or on tv? And not just the Championships, but when he played in the SANFL as well.

I think if anyone can put their hand up at that answer, I guess they are the most qualified to make a judgement on how good he is.

Yeah I've seen a few of his SANFL games which is why I'm not concerned about his heavily outside stats in the champs.

That said though, watching more matches doesn't necessarily make your opinion worth more. I can totally understand people being hesitant on him for his weaknesses, but saying he's not damaging or has nothing special is just baffling.

 

[yebiga]

Just curious, how many of you here, have actually watched full games of Aish? And not just one or two games and a highlights reel, either, but a few games, whether online, in person, or on tv? And not just the Championships, but when he played in the SANFL as well.

I think if anyone can put their hand up at that answer, I guess they are the most qualified to make a judgement on how good he is.

Not sure about that either.
There are so many variables in a game, the direct opponent, the quality of the opposing team, the importance of the game and the players role.
Averages over many games tell you something and important games against well matched opponents tell you more. But highlights with stats tell you fair bit.

In Aishs case he Averages 16 odd possessions in the SANFL and the u18 champs
He is consistent, and those are fair figures but not a 1 st round draft picks. And he played as an Outside mid in really good teams. Should be getting 25 plus in. U18s and 20 odd in the SANFL if he is to be so highly rated.

And his highlights are just not highlights - what is that about - he is just neat. Does he offer. Us anything more than what we will get with Darley for pick 78?

 

[yebiga]

You know who apparently made a decision on who to take with their first pick based on the highlight reels of each player?

Richmond with Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls. That turned out well didn't it?

I did not make that decision so that is a silly argument

 

[Igloo]

Just curious, how many of you here, have actually watched full games of Aish? And not just one or two games and a highlights reel, either, but a few games, whether online, in person, or on tv? And not just the Championships, but when he played in the SANFL as well.

Yes indeedy.

Not sure about that either.
There are so many variables in a game, the direct opponent, the quality of the opposing team, the importance of the game and the players role.
Averages over many games tell you something and important games against well matched opponents tell you more. But highlights with stats tell you fair bit.

In Aishs case he Averages 16 odd possessions in the SANFL and the u18 champs
He is consistent, and those are fair figures but not a 1 st round draft picks. And he played as an Outside mid in really good teams. Should be getting 25 plus in. U18s and 20 odd in the SANFL if he is to be so highly rated.

And his highlights are just not highlights - what is that about - he is just neat. Does he offer. Us anything more than what we will get with Darley for pick 78?

You are going the wrong way about forming an opinion. There is no better way to judge a player than watching him play in a game.

This

He is consistent, and those are fair figures but not a 1 st round draft picks.

proves it. You're dreaming if you don't think Aish is worth a first round pick.

 

[timtamWB]

Not sure about that either.
There are so many variables in a game, the direct opponent, the quality of the opposing team, the importance of the game and the players role.
Averages over many games tell you something and important games against well matched opponents tell you more. But highlights with stats tell you fair bit.

In Aishs case he Averages 16 odd possessions in the SANFL and the u18 champs
He is consistent, and those are fair figures but not a 1 st round draft picks. And he played as an Outside mid in really good teams. Should be getting 25 plus in. U18s and 20 odd in the SANFL if he is to be so highly rated.

And his highlights are just not highlights - what is that about - he is just neat. Does he offer. Us anything more than what we will get with Darley for pick 78?

Stats don't tell you a lot. Wallis averaged 18.4 disposals and Libba 26 disposals. Cross averaged 22.6 disposals and Boyd 29.4. Now would you say Boyd had a better year than Libba, and Cross had a better year than Wallis?

And I wouldn't trust highlight reels at all. Like I've stated before I could make a damn good highlights reel of Tambling, and a crappy highlights reel of Ablett, if I was so inclined.

So if that's what you're basing the majority of your argument on, you're on very shaky ground there.

 

[yebiga]

Yes indeedy.



You are going the wrong way about forming an opinion. There is no better way to judge a player than watching him play in a game.

This

proves it. You're dreaming if you don't think Aish is worth a first round pick.

Yet every year of the top 10 half will fail to deliver to expectations
Aish is in that half

 

[Igloo]

Yet every year of the top 10 half will fail to deliver to expectations
Aish is in that half

Based off watching a 5 minute video.

 

[zephskinner26]

I definitely can see some Higgins in Aish, not an exact comparison but similarities. But thats a good thing because as much as people like to jump on higgins, without the injuries he is still a very good player and i think one of our most talented. Something they also share is their so called "speed concerns". I think both of them are deceptively fast and have enough awareness to break lines and find space.

 

[Chris Grant]

Just curious, how many of you here, have actually watched full games of Aish? And not just one or two games and a highlights reel, either, but a few games, whether online, in person, or on tv? And not just the Championships, but when he played in the SANFL as well.

I think if anyone can put their hand up at that answer, I guess they are the most qualified to make a judgement on how good he is.

To many people rely on highlight reels which make everyone look like a star. And a lot of people too obsessed with players that have that wow factor and do magical things and overlook the complete package, assuming that player will be a star because he can kick two freak goals a game. Or looks lighting quick and a good ball user from his lousy 10 possessions a game, and overlook that he cannot defend at all. Or they see testing results and see a super athlete, when whilst they do play a huge and telling part, can sometimes be overrated at Athleticism does not mean a good football, and some good footballers have never been athletic.

I'm curious to who on here genuinely has seen a lot of games of all these draftees in person.

I have and I'll happily provide a link as to where you can watch the full games of Aish. Champs and SANFL matches

 

[yebiga]

Stats don't tell you a lot. Wallis averaged 18.4 disposals and Libba 26 disposals. Cross averaged 22.6 disposals and Boyd 29.4. Now would you say Boyd had a better year than Libba, and Cross had a better year than Wallis?

And I wouldn't trust highlight reels at all. Like I've stated before I could make a damn good highlights reel of Tambling, and a crappy highlights reel of Ablett, if I was so inclined.

So if that's what you're basing the majority of your argument on, you're on very shaky ground there.

Oh come on,. Everyone including the recruiters make judgement calls on attributes. What you can't guess is what is inside the players head. Aish maybe the most determined bloke in the world, like a Greg Williams or a brad Johnson who by sheer will and commitment make themselves into superstars. Aish maybe able to that but please don't tell me he has these great weapons when none are apparent, he is neat, clean, and well skilled, reads the play well. But this is AFl. You get to play with those attributes but your dont get to dominate. He needs to find some more tricks. He might.

Look I watched the highlights of stringer and Macrae and I got why we wanted them
I liked the look of Hrovat and hunter too
I saw the highlights of smith the year before and got it too
With Aish, I don't get it. And clearly nor did melbourne. Nor does GWS or St Kilda.
Nor have we made any commitment or grumbling a to get him.

So please all stop acting like I slapped your baby child
He may prove me wrong, but it would surprise me how he could

 

[timtamWB]

Oh come on,. Everyone including the recruiters make judgement calls on attributes. What you can't guess is what is inside the players head. Aish maybe the most determined bloke in the world, like a Greg Williams or a brad Johnson who by sheer will and commitment make themselves into superstars. Aish maybe able to that but please don't tell me he has these great weapons when none are apparent, he is neat, clean, and well skilled, reads the play well. But this is AFl. You get to play with those attributes but your dont get to dominate. He needs to find some more tricks. He might.

Look I watched the highlights of stringer and Macrae and I got why we wanted them
I liked the look of Hrovat and hunter too
I saw the highlights of smith the year before and got it too
With Aish, I don't get it. And clearly nor did melbourne. Nor does GWS or St Kilda.
Nor have we made any commitment or grumbling a to get him.

So please all stop acting like I slapped your baby child
He may prove me wrong, but it would surprise me how he could

What makes Ablett so great is his skill with the ball and his ability to read the play.

Aish's ability to read the play is second to none in this draft, and his skills are very good. He is also clean and doesn't panic in traffic.

I just honestly don't see why you could think Aish has no weapons and wouldn't be a good selection, when the best players in the AFL are those with great skills and a great ability to read the play, and who don't panic in traffic. Which are Aish's strengths. And from all reports he is a determined guy, these are just from things I have heard from different people so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[yebiga]

Aish has nothing special, but Freeman does?

I would LOVE some of what you're smoking

If Aish can take on his opponent, avoid a tackle and link up in play or take a solid contested mark or win his own ball in a contest, that would go a long way to making him 1st round selection. None of this is standed fair for him.

Most of it is for Kolo.. And Freeman

 

[zephskinner26]

Oh come on,. Everyone including the recruiters make judgement calls on attributes. What you can't guess is what is inside the players head. Aish maybe the most determined bloke in the world, like a Greg Williams or a brad Johnson who by sheer will and commitment make themselves into superstars. Aish maybe able to that but please don't tell me he has these great weapons when none are apparent, he is neat, clean, and well skilled, reads the play well. But this is AFl. You get to play with those attributes but your dont get to dominate. He needs to find some more tricks. He might.

Look I watched the highlights of stringer and Macrae and I got why we wanted them
I liked the look of Hrovat and hunter too
I saw the highlights of smith the year before and got it too
With Aish, I don't get it. And clearly nor did melbourne. Nor does GWS or St Kilda.
Nor have we made any commitment or grumbling a to get him.

So please all stop acting like I slapped your baby child
He may prove me wrong, but it would surprise me how he could

You're saying he shouldn't be a first round pick. Just because they like Billings or Kelly better, doesn't mean they don't think he is the 4th best player

 

[Reptilia]

Oh come on,. Everyone including the recruiters make judgement calls on attributes. What you can't guess is what is inside the players head. Aish maybe the most determined bloke in the world, like a Greg Williams or a brad Johnson who by sheer will and commitment make themselves into superstars. Aish maybe able to that but please don't tell me he has these great weapons when none are apparent, he is neat, clean, and well skilled, reads the play well. But this is AFl. You get to play with those attributes but your dont get to dominate. He needs to find some more tricks. He might.

Look I watched the highlights of stringer and Macrae and I got why we wanted them
I liked the look of Hrovat and hunter too
I saw the highlights of smith the year before and got it too
With Aish, I don't get it. And clearly nor did melbourne. Nor does GWS or St Kilda.
Nor have we made any commitment or grumbling a to get him.

So please all stop acting like I slapped your baby child
He may prove me wrong, but it would surprise me how he could

I agree with the bolded. I have admitted in every post ive said in regards to young talent that i am inexperienced when it comes to judging them.. but thats how i felt too when watching the videos.

I saw something about KK i liked, scharenberg, Bontempelli ( the most) etc but didnt really think anything of aish when watching the matches and highlights ive seen of him.. Maybe I judge the players on the little special things they do and to think hopefully they can learn to bring that to a consistent level in an AFL enviromnent and be one of the standouts of their era as more important and valuable then the standard consistency that aish brings to a whole game and i my eyes wasnt that special..

everyone sees everything differently.

btw are you a dentist?

 

[yebiga]

What makes Ablett so great is his skill with the ball and his ability to read the play.

Aish's ability to read the play is second to none in this draft, and his skills are very good. He is also clean and doesn't panic in traffic.

I just honestly don't see why you could think Aish has no weapons and wouldn't be a good selection, when the best players in the AFL are those with great skills and a great ability to read the play, and who don't panic in traffic. Which are Aish's strengths. And from all reports he is a determined guy, these are just from things I have heard from different people so take it with a grain of salt.

You seriously comparing Aish to Ablett?

 

[_M_16_]

I have and I'll happily provide a link as to where you can watch the full games of Aish. Champs and SANFL matches

I'm not doubting you or anyone. I'm just seeing who has seen Aish for more than 5 minutes of fame or a couple of games. Whislt not saying one who has seen a lot of him has a more valuable opinion than those who have seen a little bit. But I do take ones word on a player who has actually watched him in the eye for a good duration over someone who hasn't.

 

[_M_16_]

Ladies, how about we stop the hair pulling and the hand bag slapping, and actually wait and see

Many star draftees have become flops, and many unrated players have become stars. How about we revisit this again in two years time. Because truthfully, no one knows how a player will turn out until he is actually in the system for awhile. Until then, no point arguing and name calling, everyone has their own opinion, whether they have a strong ore credible reason or not, it is their opinion. Rather than tear someone apart or be little them for having an alternative view, just says "I disagree with your view, but that is your view and I respect it" This works for both sides here.

 

[yebiga]

Minson 4 brownlow
The dentist reference is to the movie marathon man
Where Lawrence Olivier plays this dentist who tortures dustin Hoffman by drilling into his healthy teeth.
Now the dentist keeps asking Hoffman if its safe? Hoffman won't answer him so he keeps drilling.

It was a famous scene

Now you were making some comment last week about whether someone or some player was safe?

And I made a reference to this thinking you may be my vintage - so sorry about that

 

[timtamWB]

You seriously comparing Aish to Ablett?

I used Ablett as an example, as he is the best player in the competition, and his strengths of reading the play and his skills are the same as Aish's, which will hold Aish in good stead in the AFL. I'm not saying Aish will ever be as good as Ablett, or even half as good. But his ability to read the play raises him above all else.

 

[yebiga]

I used Ablett as an example, as he is the best player in the competition, and his strengths of reading the play and his skills are the same as Aish's, which will hold Aish in good stead in the AFL. I'm not saying Aish will ever be as good as Ablett, or even half as good. But his ability to read the play raises him above all else.

You know reading the play would rate as the most subjective attribute of all
But someone who can read the play well and plays on the ball averages 30 or more possessions
16 possessions, suggests an onballer who does not read the play anywhere near elite level and will really find it difficult to secure an on ball role at AFL level

 

[timtamWB]

You know reading the play would rate as the most subjective attribute of all
But someone who can read the play well and plays on the ball averages 30 or more possessions
16 possessions, suggests an onballer who does not read the play anywhere near elite level and will really find it difficult to secure an on ball role at AFL level

Or there are some players that are ball magnets such as Boyd, who isn't a very good reader of the play.

Either way it's highly unlikely we take Freeman over Aish/KK/Scharenberg etc.

We're obviously going to continue to disagree, so I'm just going to end it here.

 

[Chris Grant]

You know reading the play would rate as the most subjective attribute of all
But someone who can read the play well and plays on the ball averages 30 or more possessions
16 possessions, suggests an onballer who does not read the play anywhere near elite level and will really find it difficult to secure an on ball role at AFL level

It's a bit hard when you're getting tagged. Some AFL players take years to break a tag, Aish is trying to figure it out at 17.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

It's a bit hard when you're getting tagged. Some AFL players take years to break a tag, Aish is trying to figure it out at 17.

Exactly - and there's a reason Aish gets tagged and Freeman doesn't.