List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[doggies ftw]

Would love to get Bontempelli and start him off the HBF, let him take the kick outs and we definitely won't have any trouble getting the ball out of defense anymore!

 

[Mofra]

Exactly. And the side that just won the flag only has one mid that's over 188cm, and that's Isaac Smith with a 83kg body! I still think that the obsession with big midfielders is a media/BF fabrication, and clubs will just go best available (unless you're SOS). I don't think we'll go for Bontempelli, we'll go for one of the top rated ones.

Bingo - the best clearance and contested possession midfielder in the competition is 180cm tall and weighs not much more than 80kgs (and we got him for a second rounder ).

To put it another way - not even Andrejs' mum would pick him in a team over Nathan Hrovat.

Good > Size

 

[black pup]

W

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and everyone thinks everybody elses stinks.

Keep that in mind.

e

Very knowledgable. One of your better posts.

 

[yebiga]

I would be a little surprised if Aish turned out to bean AFL star but if we pick him up, I will be hoping, as much as anyone, that he does become a star. Until then, I can only call it the way I see it. On what I see, the Gibbs comparison is unavoidable. And to be honest, I really like Gibbs and think he has been poorly used by Carlton. So, if we did pick him I certainly don't expect a disaster. He is a fairly safe pick.

Equally, there is no denying that there are at least another 6 players who are equally as safe and subjectively, at least, have a higher ceiling. For example, I would not be jumping at Bontempelli, but I acknowledge his height, athleticism and kicking offers something Aish does not. There is a class, some tricks and composure about Billings that Aish simply does not possess. Sharenberg's strength, his marking, his presence standout and here is someone who will simply be ready to play 16 plus games next year. KK has an elite side step, a left foot to die for and also with good height his upside is quite frankly as high as anyone's. And Freeman , has such explosive pace, maybe not as polished as some, but his evasiveness is elite.

Now it is possible Aish will outshine all of these but it would surprise me as I just do not see any major weapon. He is just reasonably really good at everything. A good kick, reads the play well, goes when he has to. By all accounts GWS, Melbourne and the Saints have down graded him, and the go home factor does not wash with me. Aish would know that there is simply no way he ends up at a South Australian club: The Crows don't have a 1st round pick and Port's first pick is 21! He ain't getting to pick 21.

 

[Aldo]

I would be a little surprised if Aish turned out to bean AFL star but if we pick him up, I will be hoping, as much as anyone, that he does become a star. Until then, I can only call it the way I see it. On what I see, the Gibbs comparison is unavoidable. And to be honest, I really like Gibbs and think he has been poorly used by Carlton. So, if we did pick him I certainly don't expect a disaster. He is a fairly safe pick.

Equally, there is no denying that there are at least another 6 players who are equally as safe and subjectively, at least, have a higher ceiling. For example, I would not be jumping at Bontempelli, but I acknowledge his height, athleticism and kicking offers something Aish does not. There is a class, some tricks and composure about Billings that Aish simply does not possess. Sharenberg's strength, his marking, his presence standout and here is someone who will simply be ready to play 16 plus games next year. KK has an elite side step, a left foot to die for and also with good height his upside is quite frankly as high as anyone's. And Freeman , has such explosive pace, maybe not as polished as some, but his evasiveness is elite.

Now it is possible Aish will outshine all of these but it would surprise me as I just do not see any major weapon. He is just reasonably really good at everything. A good kick, reads the play well, goes when he has to. By all accounts GWS, Melbourne and the Saints have down graded him, and the go home factor does not wash with me. Aish would know that there is simply no way he ends up at a South Australian club: The Crows don't have a 1st round pick and Port's first pick is 21! He ain't getting to pick 21.

I agree with most of your points there and wouldn't mind us taking Billings, Kolodjashnij and Scharenberg over him. I'd be very annoyed if we take Freeman over him though. I think Aish is the clearly better player there.

 

[Dav1d]

Equally, there is no denying that there are at least another 6 players who are equally as safe and subjectively, at least, have a higher ceiling. For example, I would not be jumping at Bontempelli, but I acknowledge his height, athleticism and kicking offers something Aish does not. There is a class, some tricks and composure about Billings that Aish simply does not possess. Sharenberg's strength, his marking, his presence standout and here is someone who will simply be ready to play 16 plus games next year. KK has an elite side step, a left foot to die for and also with good height his upside is quite frankly as high as anyone's. And Freeman , has such explosive pace, maybe not as polished as some, but his evasiveness is elite.

Now it is possible Aish will outshine all of these but it would surprise me as I just do not see any major weapon. He is just reasonably really good at everything. A good kick, reads the play well, goes when he has to. By all accounts GWS, Melbourne and the Saints have down graded him, and the go home factor does not wash with me.

I understand your points about Aish
But will probably still cry if he goes to Collingwood or Gold Coast and as in an absolute star

I am hoping if not Aish then KK,
KK has a bit of everything and seems a really good kid; judging from his video interviews

 

[Aldo]

I really want KK, but if we do get him, I want us to get his brother too to keep the two together and happy. It seemed like we could get him with any pick early in the year, but from the sound of things, JK is starting to get much more attention and I think he'll likely be gone before our next pick.

 

[murphy's twin]

I know I keep talking about different players, but bontempelli really fits the 'monster utility' type which fronk was going on about. Emma thinks he could be gone before pick 6..

 

[murphy's twin]

Yer I really think that bontempelli is a Macca style selection

 

[ossie_21]

I'm surprised to read about how much Aish's stocks have fallen. For at least all of last year we was about a lock at 1 or 2, now there's a chance he will go somewhere in between 5-10.

 

[doggies ftw]

People keep saying how Bontempelli is such a reach but really the clubs are the ones that know best and he has been rumoured to be taken at picks 2, 4, and 6 so maybe, just maybe, he is one of the top prospects? They're not stupid, if we take Bontempelli at 4 it's because we think he will end up the best available at our pick it's really as simple as that.

 

[yebiga]

Given our selection of Clay Smith, Tallia in 2011, Stringer last year and reports that BMac actually preferred Wines slightly ahead of Macrae but was outvoted,
I feel Sharenberg would be the most likely BMac preference.

It is certainly a different philosophy to that under Eade, we may not win a flag, but no one will be out muscling us
in a year or so. In fact, we may be bitch slapping some of the lighter framed sides come 2015.

Who ever we pick at 4 will be pretty good, I think this draft is very strong at the top end. But I will have my fingers crossed that Hourigan is available at 42: his got that huge Tony Locket chest and back side with a bit of pace. Can't he have liposuction to remove that tyre around his waist?

 

[Kelvin31]

C4 typically has great info so I have no doubt he's gone to Adelaide, but I imagine he'll be talking to all of the players we have even a slight interest in. Decision won't have been made yet. Don't get your hopes up.

I just got around to reading your AISH write up from Nov 3rd on the Phantom board. Great work.
I'd still be very happy with a skinny/slight out-midfielder with elite skills and leadership qualities inserted into our strong brigade.

Although I did a small spew in my mouth...I had to smile at this quote from you about Aish; "While some cite his champs stats - where a huge majority of his possessions were uncontested, placing him in a category with the likes of Cale Morton"

.

 

[Chris Grant]

There seems to be quite a difference of opinion on Bontempelli. I agree with most that I'd rather not take the chance, but some of the stuff on here (not just on this board) I just don't agree with. So this is just my take on it.

The biggest sticking point regarding Bontempelli is generally his performances, so really going to focus in on that mainly. Just to mention, I nearly saw all of Bontempelli performances live at the champs with the exception being the WA game and also both the TAC cup finals games. So I have seen him play in the bigger games just to make things clear.

1. Metro vs TAS. Played mainly across half back. Struggled to get into the game all day and fumbled a bit. Couldn't get near the ball, but Metro did dominate. Not a good performance .
2. Metro vs SA. Played a fair bit across half back and a bit more through the midfield. Started to get his hands on the ball a bit more and got his game going a bit more. Cut off a few attacks, won a couple clearances and used the ball well. Above average performance.
3. Metro vs Country. Played mainly through the midfield and was very good in the 2nd half especially. Was really starting to dominate. Did a few unselfish acts too which I was impressed with. His best performance by far.

4. TAC cup final one. Played as an inside midfielder nearly all day and was good. There were stages where he looked like he could break open the game but didn't. In the end Lennon did, but he was given a fair bit of attention to be fair in the 2nd half. I didn't think he had heap of the ball at the time, but I looked back and saw he had 23 disposals (and at a guess I'd say he had 7 or 8 clearances) so maybe I didn't give him enough credit here.
5. TAC cup final two. Spent quite a bit of time up forward which was strange. Had a really poor day. Wasn't clean both in the air and on the deck. To be fair the delivery was quite poor as well and he didn't have a lot of chances. But the chances he did have he didn't take which was quite disappointing.

Other games - I've seen 3 other games on top of that which I'll briefly touch on. He spent most of his time through the midfield and I couldn't fault him. Also saw him a bit of him across half forward and you could certainly see the potential.

Right across all of those games I've always made a particular note about his composure and ball use. I've seen a few say it's way overrated, but from what I've seen it's elite as far as I'm concerned. His composure particularly in heavy traffic stands out. Even in his poor performances I've never had an issue with it.

I've also seen quite a few compare him to Everitt. During the champs I probably would have agreed with you as he looked a little soft and across half back he kind of plays like him too. I guess the main problem with Everitt is he had no real set position. Does Bontempelli?

Like I said I don't like him across half back at all. At the draft combine he got a 3.20 seconds very 20m and I think this is perhaps the reason why he might struggle a bit here at the top level. His closing speed mind you is pretty decent and once he gets going he can break a line. But if he's played deep I'm not sure he has the capabilities to keep up over shorter distances. Across half forward I think he has a lot of potential and he's actually shown quite a bit the times I've seen him play here (except for that one game). He has the aerobic capacity, speed over a distance and agility to get away from his opponent and he can take a good mark. But you wouldn't be taking him based on his potential. For mine clearly his best position is through the midfield. Composed in heavy traffic, good vision, wins clearances and is good on the outside. He could easily turn out to be a Scott Pendlebury type midfielder. I think if you cancel out his performances where he mainly played across half back or that game across half forward his performances actually make for some good reading as a midfielder. Its just that he's been thrown around a lot and when he's given a proper go in the midfield I don't think think he's disappointed.

But you're probably still asking yourself how can he go top 4 still based on those performances? And you'd be right in asking yourself that question. This analysis isn't me trying to convince he he should go top 4 (I don't think he should either), but it's just me trying to give you a bit better perspective and that he's not just another Everitt. I think he should go in the top 10 because he has a strong work ethic, is a very good character by all reports and I think he has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. Top 5 is too much of a stretch for me, but I can sort of see what our recruiters are looking at.

Anyway I think we will be taking Scharenberg anyway (talked to my source again last night), well provided the final testing and interview goes well. He's been very consistent on Scharenberg. I think Bontempelli is the back up option. He said he hasn't heard much on Aish still. Doesn't think we will be taking him, unless it's a damn good secret.

 

[timtamWB]

If we end up with Bontempelli then you'll not be a fan as mathematically at least 2 of the four you mention will be available (with Boyd going at 1).

That was my point

 

[Trent85]

Anyway I think we will be taking Scharenberg anyway (talked to my source again last night), well provided the final testing and interview goes well. He's been very consistent on Scharenberg. I think Bontempelli is the back up option. He said he hasn't heard much on Aish still. Doesn't think we will be taking him, unless it's a damn good secret.

Good write-up/analyse of Bontempelli

I also agree with you in regards to the Bürgermeister I think we will go with him...

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Agree with much of what CG said.

A 'reach' probably isn't the best way to describe it, but it's much moreso a "potential" pick than the others taken early. Could he become the best midfielder in the draft? Absolutely. Could he absolutely flop and become one of the worst picks in the draft? Absolutely.

Drafting is all about potential, of course, but with guys like Boyd and Aish they've performed consistently and in Aish's case over a long period of time against bigger and stronger opponents. Bontempelli hasn't shown this except in flashes. Let me remind you of somebody who was a brilliant footballer in flashes: Patrick Veszpremi. It may not be a 'reach' to take Bontempelli at four but he's quite easily the most risky prospect out of the five or so options.

I hate judging on potential and let actions speak for themselves - and unfortunately Bontempelli just hasn't done enough to make me even consider him at four.

 

[paul scholes]

Bang on ^^ and if I hear that word "ceiling" " X factor" , pleeeease!!

 

[black pup]

Good write-up/analyse of Bontempelli

I also agree with you in regards to the Bürgermeister I think we will go with him...

Great write up, I agree Scharenberg our pick, Bontempelli back up, but I personally hope it's Bontempelli as I believe he could develop into a very exciting forward that suits the modern game.

 

[fronkalicious]

I dont believe that Bontempelli is on our radar. Id be shocked if we didnt take Scharenberg or Aish if Billings is off the board.

 

[murphy's twin]

Well I would be very happy with Berger man.

 

[yebiga]

how many of these draftees have been All Australian U18s for 2 years?
I think Berger, Aish, Billings?
anyone know?

 

[Aldo]

how many of these draftees have been All Australian U18s for 2 years?
I think Berger, Aish, Billings?
anyone know?

From just this year, I'm pretty sure it's just them 3.

Last year there was Whitfield and Grundy.

 

[Trent85]

Great write up, I agree Scharenberg our pick, Bontempelli back up, but I personally hope it's Bontempelli as I believe he could develop into a very exciting forward that suits the modern game.

Is this meant for me or Granty??

If it's for me I understand the hype around Bontempelli but I think talking short to mid term he is behind a few players. I'm not saying he is shyte and we shouldn't get him I just think he needs time/patience etc. to develop and we need someone IMO a bit closer to being a ready made player. IMO I think his long term outlook is probably the most mouth-watering out of anyone in the draft.

For me the Bürgermeister ticks the most boxes for what I feel is "our draft type" plus he allows us to use AWESOME NICKNAMES..

 

[MJ_Dogs]

I dont believe that Bontempelli is on our radar. Id be shocked if we didnt take Scharenberg or Aish if Billings is off the board.

Really? He's been down at the club a few times recently (last month or so)