List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[doggies ftw]

I don't really see why people say with Bontempelli he is either going to be a gun or a complete flop, with his attributes and attitude I'm pretty confident worst case scenario he can carve out a solid career, obviously thats not what we want but I don't see how he is any less likely to make it than say KK for example.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

I don't really see why people say with Bontempelli he is either going to be a gun or a complete flop, with his attributes and attitude I'm pretty confident at the very least he can carve out a solid career, obviously thats not what we want but I don't see how he is any less likely to make it than say KK for example.

You mean his attributes like being horribly inconsistent and showing only what he's capable of in flashes?

If he doesn't become more consistent he's a complete bust. If he does, he could be the best of the draft.

 

[ossie_21]

I'm sick of the pick 4 discussion, so I move that we discuss something much more important.

Which player's name is the best for shouting out at the footy? Discuss.

As evidenced a few times at Subi because of me, DEFINITELY Stephen Hill.

"STEPHEN HILL, YOU SUCK!!". Love it. Then often followed up later "STEPHEN HILL - YOU CAN'T KICK" or "STEPHEN HILL - IF YOU WEREN'T FAST YOU'D BE PLAYING FOR PEEL", depending on what sort of spid move he pulls

 

[Igloo]

You mean his attributes like being horribly inconsistent and showing only what he's capable of in flashes?

If he doesn't become more consistent he's a complete bust. If he does, he could be the best of the draft.

Horribly inconsistent is a bit of a dramatisation.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Horribly inconsistent is a bit of a dramatisation.

Disagree. From contest to contest he's super inconsistent and there's no way of knowing what you're going to get from him. I love watching what he's capable of when he's on, but when he's not it's painful to watch him standing around.

 

[Dav1d]

Haha I assumed if we didn't want to talk about Pick 4 anymore then we could at least turn our attention to pick 42?....or better yet lets bring up the 'Are we at all keen on Garlett' topic again...

Macca will cast his demons out and he shall be a 150 game player for us

 

[zephskinner26]

Does Cal Twomey add 1 or 2cm to every players height in his phantom form guide??

 

[doggies ftw]

You mean his attributes like being horribly inconsistent and showing only what he's capable of in flashes?

If he doesn't become more consistent he's a complete bust. If he does, he could be the best of the draft.

He's not the first kid thats been a little inconsistent though, especially a lanky 190cm mid who's most likely still growing. I think "horribly inconsistent" is a little harsh, I could be completely wrong here but IIRC he was pretty good most weeks in the TAC.

By his attributes I meant the 190cm mid who is good in the air, clean below his knees, lovely long kick, can play all over the ground, is good inside the contest and winning his own ball but also links up really well on the outside, agile, relatively quick, great attitude. Personally I just can't see him flopping, not reaching the great heights he is capable of, sure, but not completely flopping.

 

[LukasTheGreat]

As evidenced a few times at Subi because of me, DEFINITELY Stephen Hill.

"STEPHEN HILL, YOU SUCK!!". Love it. Then often followed up later "STEPHEN HILL - YOU CAN'T KICK" or "STEPHEN HILL - IF YOU WEREN'T FAST YOU'D BE PLAYING FOR PEEL", depending on what sort of spid move he pulls

Sounds like what I do, it helps that we're always losing at Subi, gives us more time to think of shit to say.

 

[timtamWB]

Macca will cast his demons out and he shall be a 150 game player for us

This is the worst paint job I've ever seen of anything, period.

 

[Igloo]

Disagree. From contest to contest he's super inconsistent and there's no way of knowing what you're going to get from him. I love watching what he's capable of when he's on, but when he's not it's painful to watch him standing around.

You're making it sound like one day he can have a 30 touch game, then the next week struggle to get 2 kicks.
He had a pretty quiet champs compared to how he usually goes, but his game to game performance isn't anywhere near "horribly" inconsistent.
As for contest to contest, way too tough to judge. Other players being around throws up way too many variables to label it as anything. I haven't seen him just standing around too much.

 

[Dav1d]

This is the worst paint job I've ever seen of anything, period.

aw man
I'm hurt, that took me a whole 15 seconds to put together

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

In the Vic Country game MB had about ten less touches than Kelly but he still about ten times as influential.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Does Cal Twomey add 1 or 2cm to every players height in his phantom form guide??

It's just hard to know what the players' actual heights are because of the **** ups at the combine. Some are 2cm out, others are about right. Lots of contradictory information.

He's not the first kid thats been a little inconsistent though, especially a lanky 190cm mid who's most likely still growing. I think "horribly inconsistent" is a little harsh, I could be completely wrong here but IIRC he was pretty good most weeks in the TAC.

By his attributes I meant the 190cm mid who is good in the air, clean below his knees, lovely long kick, can play all over the ground, is good inside the contest and winning his own ball but also links up really well on the outside, agile, relatively quick, great attitude. Personally I just can't see him flopping, not reaching the great heights he is capable of, sure, but not completely flopping.

"Pretty good," but nowhere near worth pick 4. You're taking him based on flashes here and there rather than actual exposed form. From contest to contest I find myself either going, "Wow, nice," or, "Are you just going to stand there...?" From game to game isn't really the problem; within games I just find myself getting super frustrated with him.

 

[Dav1d]

We're all probably over thinking who we will pick whilst Dalrymple & J. Mac are probably expecting it'll be out out 1-2 players; depending which falls to us and the media has no clue, Sam Landsberger was the first I think to say we were interested in Macrae and I'll believe him if he says we'll pick Aish because he said it pretty early if I remember correctly in his pick me series

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

You're making it sound like one day he can have a 30 touch game, then the next week struggle to get 2 kicks.
He had a pretty quiet champs compared to how he usually goes, but his game to game performance isn't anywhere near "horribly" inconsistent.
As for contest to contest, way too tough to judge. Other players being around throws up way too many variables to label it as anything. I haven't seen him just standing around too much.

I never said he was inconsistent between games. Within matches, though, he shows flashes of brilliance and then goes cold. Compare that to almost all of the options around the pick 4 mark, who more or less sustain their football throughout matches.

As for the second part, I disagree. You can tell when other players are around that Vez doesn't put himself in the right spots and doesn't work hard enough; it's the same with Bontempelli. He fades in and out, positions himself poorly and struggles to work himself into matches consistently. If he can't overcome this, I don't see how he can possibly work himself into a top-level AFL team. If he can overcome it, he has all the attributes to be a star.

 

[doggies ftw]

"Pretty good," but nowhere near worth pick 4. You're taking him based on flashes here and there rather than actual exposed form. From contest to contest I find myself either going, "Wow, nice," or, "Are you just going to stand there...?" From game to game isn't really the problem; within games I just find myself getting super frustrated with him.

FWIW just checked his TAC cup stats, from 9 games he had less than 20 disposals twice, and in one of those games he kicked a goal but had no disposals haha so theres obviously something wrong there.

I don't think you're taking him on flashes of brilliance at all tbh, like Igloo said its not like he gets 30 disposals one game and then 3 the next, I'd say if you take Bontempelli your basing it on a bit of exposed form (which is good, but not as good as others around the mark) as well as upside (which is higher than others around the mark), just like Sheed being the best performed player in the champs doesn't mean he is going to go pick 1.

 

[doggies ftw]

I never said he was inconsistent between games. Within matches, though, he shows flashes of brilliance and then goes cold. Compare that to almost all of the options around the pick 4 mark, who more or less sustain their football throughout matches.

As for the second part, I disagree. You can tell when other players are around that Vez doesn't put himself in the right spots and doesn't work hard enough; it's the same with Bontempelli. He fades in and out, positions himself poorly and struggles to work himself into matches consistently. If he can't overcome this, I don't see how he can possibly work himself into a top-level AFL team. If he can overcome it, he has all the attributes to be a star.

If he is that inconsistent within matches, yet still racks up good numbers every week, that makes me want him even more. Pretty sure he is only new to playing midfield so of course he might get out positioned occasionally, he will learn and get better. From the negatives you've described for him I just feel that they can be fairly easily fixed and his positives faaar outweigh them.

 

[Igloo]

I never said he was inconsistent between games. Within matches, though, he shows flashes of brilliance and then goes cold. Compare that to almost all of the options around the pick 4 mark, who more or less sustain their football throughout matches.

As for the second part, I disagree. You can tell when other players are around that Vez doesn't put himself in the right spots and doesn't work hard enough; it's the same with Bontempelli. He fades in and out, positions himself poorly and struggles to work himself into matches consistently. If he can't overcome this, I don't see how he can possibly work himself into a top-level AFL team. If he can overcome it, he has all the attributes to be a star.

I just don't see it nearly as pronounced as you do. It's all guesswork in whether anyone will fulfill their potential anyway, but the upside is clearly there.

He fades in and out a bit, there's no question. But I don't mind his positioning. Definitely likes to stay on the back side of packs to keep his goals in front of him, which helps his composure.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

There's just no logic in taking a guy with good attributes who's relatively unproven, doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck and fades in and out at such a high pick when there are three or four guys with good attributes who are proven, have made massive impacts on games and doesn't fade out anywhere near as much. None at all. Whether you see his issues as being as serious/well-defined as I do or not, he's yet to show anything that makes him worth pick 4. It's the talk, speculation and expectations that makes him worth pick 4, which are dangerous things to make drafting decisions based on.

 

[Dav1d]

There's just no logic in taking a guy with good attributes who's relatively unproven, doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck and fades in and out at such a high pick when there are three or four guys with good attributes who are proven, have made massive impacts on games and doesn't fade out anywhere near as much. None at all. Whether you see his issues as being as serious/well-defined as I do or not, he's yet to show anything that makes him worth pick 4. It's the talk, speculation and expectations that makes him worth pick 4, which are dangerous things to make drafting decisions based on.

Gotta risk it for the biscuit
Na, I hope we get one of Aish, KK, Scharenberg, Billings ahead of Bontempelli but am really concerned whether Billings can make it in the midfield

 

[Igloo]

There's just no logic in taking a guy with good attributes who's relatively unproven, doesn't take games by the scruff of the neck and fades in and out at such a high pick when there are three or four guys with good attributes who are proven, have made massive impacts on games and doesn't fade out anywhere near as much. None at all. Whether you see his issues as being as serious/well-defined as I do or not, he's yet to show anything that makes him worth pick 4. It's the talk, speculation and expectations that makes him worth pick 4, which are dangerous things to make drafting decisions based on.

Never said he was the best pick to take. Aish is by far my preferred option if available.
I've warmed to Scharenberg a bit, and would take him over Bontempelli. Would also take Billings before him if Bontempelli if available, which he probably wont be. Toss of the coin vs Kolodjashnij.
Just not buying into "the sky is falling" train of thought if we do take him. He's a talented kid who wouldn't be a bad pick at pick 4.

 

[doggies ftw]

Yeah I still hope and think we will get Aish too, this is an interesting read http://www.scpaige.com.au/draft-update-the-latest-whispers/ says Saints are considering Scharenberg, would like them to take Scharenberg just so we at least have the option of Billings.

 

[timtamWB]

Yeah I still hope and think we will get Aish too, this is an interesting read http://www.scpaige.com.au/draft-update-the-latest-whispers/ says Saints are considering Scharenberg, would like them to take Scharenberg just so we at least have the option of Billings.

I wouldn't. Really I want one of Aish or Scharenberg, and then if for some reason they're both gone, one of Billings/KK. While Billings is highly talented, both Aish and Scharenberg both fill a need much moreso than Billings.

 

[Chris Grant]

It's just hard to know what the players' actual heights are because of the **** ups at the combine. Some are 2cm out, others are about right. Lots of contradictory information.

I think the heights are probably right.
I got two spreadsheets of combine info. One earlier in the week and one later in the week. The earlier one some heights weren't listed at all and most of the heights were way out. They re did the heights testing apparently which makes sense as the final spreadsheet that I have has the heights as totally different. 194cm for Bontempelli is about right IMO.