List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Dogsman16]

If we take Bontempelli, would he be expected to play a fair few games next year?

I do like that our recruiters aren't afraid to go against the grain, but sometimes the obvious pick is the right one.

Irrespective of who we pick at 4 whether it be Aish or Bontempelli, next year i think aish would play more games than bontempelli, think a 194cm midfielder is going to take more development than 184cm mid, also despite aish requiring a fair bit more size I think his body is more hardened to senior footy.
Macrae I thought was easily the skiniest kid of the top 10 2012 but he played a fair few games because of his growth over the pre-season. I think we can do the same with Aish.

Out of curiosity, at draft time who would be quicker Aish 2013 or Macrae 2012?

 

[Super Hans]

Sure, we have holes all over the field but IMO our worst problem post 2013 is having no good tall forwards.

Picking McCarthy would be a brave, inspired choice.

We can also pick up another good tall forward next year when we finish bottom 4-6 in 2014 albiet not top shelf.

We will most likely address that next year, as its already been said next year has a heap of KPP in the top ten. We could get one better than McCarthy then.

 

[glenashley]

This really was the draft to trade down imho. I would love to be in Collingwood's position with 2 first round picks.

 

[Chris Grant]

Not saying he doesn't have foot problems, but they've been around for a while. The fact that the news just happened to spread really quickly last night out of absolutely nowhere, less than a week before the draft, is very suss.

I said something similar earlier, but the thing that I do find strange is my source has been very confident that we were dead confident on Scharenberg all the way then suddenly he's not in the mix at all after our final interview and testing. I think this could be a bit more serious.

So to back my source in, I fully expect us to take the back up option which is Bontempelli.

 

[yebiga]

What makes you think Freeman over Aish?

Freeman is already 181cm and 85kgs. Not sure that he has too much more growing to do in terms of filling out his physique. Yes he has explosive pace, but he didn't really kill it this year.

Aish has been a youth superstar since he was born apparently. Weighs in at 74kgs - which indicates that he has some growing to do even to get to Jarrad Grant's size...

I am not advocating taking freeman but I do think he has something our team really lacks, genuine pace. I don't think there is much risk in him being a real asset.
I think Aish has genuine credentials but like others fear he may not make the grade at afl level, outside players need pace. He is not slow but his no whippet either. Something of both Ray and Gibbs spring to mind. And I think that's is what he will be - one of those two.
The best available on credentials is Berger, and billings - they should be our first two options
After that sheed and KK
But billings and burger have shown over two years their class, they perform in big games berger displays great leadership qualities, billings has X factor and both have poise and CONSISTENCY.

 

[yebiga]

I just don't understand why there is even a possibility we'd pass on Aish. There must be underlying issues, because as a player he is exactly what we need in our midfield.

Why on earth do you think that?
Let's for a moment except that he is as good as you think, great disposal, awareness and presence. But he is a receiver with just ok pace,he is neither physical or strong nor particularly evasive. So we put him a wing and have to dish it out to him so he hits the target? or more likely we have to turn him into a back flanker because it is not so ease to dish it out, and because if he is good at it he does not have the tools to get away from his designated opponent.

If we want a quality back flanker get the Berger or KK
If you want a weapon get billings
And if you want something we really lack in the mid field, you get pace and take freeman
Our midfield is too one paced

 

[timtamWB]

While having no firm choice given I haven't seen any of them play, I'm starting to come around to Yebiga logic.
I had been thinking Aish, but if he is available to us he is in effect the 6th ranked player (if you include Martin and Hogan).
Now given the truly elite tend to be pick 1 in most drafts and maybe up to pick 3 or 4 in strong drafts, I'm thinking Aish and our other options cannot be considered to be truly elite.
Therefore I'm now coming around to preferring to go a bit safer at pick 6 with a strong bodied player (looking at Brownlow results, top 20 or so tend to have a very high percentage of strong bodied players).
So I'm now preferring Scharemburg, Billings, (and won't be disappointed if the club thinks Bontempelli is the best option).

Of course this will probably change as the week progresses and the next player with a bullet starts being discussed.

Chad Wingard was picked behind Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliot and Buntine. If memory serves correctly, he wasn't exactly a strong bodied player. In his 2nd year he's an All Australian.

If the kid's talented, and Aish most certainly is one of the most talented in this draft, then just ****ing pick him already.

 

[timtamWB]

Sure, we have holes all over the field but IMO our worst problem post 2013 is having no good tall forwards.

Picking McCarthy would be a brave, inspired choice.

We can also pick up another good tall forward next year when we finish bottom 4-6 in 2014 albiet not top shelf.

McCarthy really shouldn't go top 10. He's being overrated due to having next to no KPP's in this draft. We'll get a tall forward next year.

 

[Zgope1]

would anyone be kind enough to turn that bontempelli pick me into a youtube video? i can't access it because of my location apparently

 

[Igloo]

Why on earth do you think that?
Let's for a moment except that he is as good as you think, great disposal, awareness and presence. But he is a receiver with just ok pace,he is neither physical or strong nor particularly evasive. So we put him a wing and have to dish it out to him so he hits the target? or more likely we have to turn him into a back flanker because it is not so ease to dish it out, and because if he is good at it he does not have the tools to get away from his designated opponent.

If we want a quality back flanker get the Berger or KK
If you want a weapon get billings
And if you want something we really lack in the mid field, you get pace and take freeman
Our midfield is too one paced

Hmm, let's think what is the #1 strength of our midfield... Sure is tough to put my finger on it, but knock me down with a feather, it's extracting the ball!
Now, what have we struggled with once we get the ball? That would be good disposal efficiency. What is Aish excellent at? Yep, kicking.
So if we continue with our excellent extraction of the ball, and have an option to give the ball to who is a great kick and moves with a lot of time, that improves our side

You don't just plonk Aish on a wing and leave him there. He plays in the middle a lot, at the centre bounces. You're painting him as someone who just sits completely on the outside. That isn't what he does.
The people you want to give it to on the outside don't all have to be speed machines to help you get it out.
Look at the Sydney midfield. Jetta and Jack are pretty much the only ones with genuine pace, and Jetta sits completely on the outside, so they have 1 quick player on the inside. It's more about spreading than foot speed, and Sydney spread better than pretty much every team in the league.

 

[paul scholes]

Why on earth do you think that?
Let's for a moment except that he is as good as you think, great disposal, awareness and presence. But he is a receiver with just ok pace,he is neither physical or strong nor particularly evasive. So we put him a wing and have to dish it out to him so he hits the target? or more likely we have to turn him into a back flanker because it is not so ease to dish it out, and because if he is good at it he does not have the tools to get away from his designated opponent.

If we want a quality back flanker get the Berger or KK
If you want a weapon get billings
And if you want something we really lack in the mid field, you get pace and take freeman
Our midfield is too one paced

What utter nonsense
An under 18 player skinny? There all bloody skinny!
An under 18 player is a receiver ? That would be most young players!
In case you hadn't noticed the club isn't exactly bereft of inside mids.
If we are after pace lets pick up Usain Bolt!
Brendan McCartney and the coaching staff are vaunted ( rightly so) of teaching and coaching players ,so I'd be confident the kid could play an outside and inside game.

 

[paul scholes]

Chad Wingard was picked behind Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliot and Buntine. If memory serves correctly, he wasn't exactly a strong bodied player. In his 2nd year he's an All Australian.

If the kid's talented, and Aish most certainly is one of the most talented in this draft, then just ******* pick him already.

Yep, why on earth is the club chancing with pick 4?
Haven't we learnt with the Howard pick? Reaching and hoping

 

[Zgope1]

i know i've been a spokesman for why Bontempelli hasn't shown enough, and i'd still prefer Aish because he's a better player now with a lot of potential too, but it can't be ignored that he did show continual improvement throughout, which is big for recruiters. He only played one top quality game in the champs but it was pretty bloody good and it was the last one when he had to play well. 21 touches at really high efficiency and a goal. Also plays decent on the inside, big body that goes pretty well in clearances so it's understandable we like him. It wouldn't be picking someone out of the sky. Club's rate the improvers

 

[paul scholes]

Interesting reading Quigley's War and Peace mock draft, he commented how weak the TAC cup
Was this season.

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Another thought ... is it a problem to only add 2 new players to list? Perhaps we'll get 1 more in the rookie draft, with the Goodes upgrade? The bonds that groups like Murph, Gia, Gilbee, Hahn, Shaggy ... form are invaluable for a strong culture? Does only adding 2-3 players minimise this? Maybe with our young group, they'll help support the transition.

 

[AjsGuns]

Wish we traded pick 4 for 10 + 12 or something!
Don't think we will pick up Scharenberg now with the injury concerns leaving it out of Aish/Bontempelli most likely unless one of Kelly/Billings slip to 4..
Aish feels like a safer bet to me, at worst he becomes a good AFL player imo. He was touted as a 1 pick last year (and was better than Toumpas who went at #4 last year) and even 8 weeks ago everyone had him clear 2. to Boyd.
Bontempelli i agree is going to be star or a bust pick 4 feels like its reaching a little but i wouldn't be devastated if we got him, I think Aish is the better choice though at pick 4 (Reckon he will be one of the 3 best players of this draft in 5 years time).
Reckon Bontempelli is a 7-11 pick a high risk/high reward.

God i really do want Aish though..his a top 3 pick imo, I'd take him ahead of Kelly and probably Billings (although splitting hairs with him and Billings, really hoping we land one of those two)

Anyways - the recruiters have watched hundreds of hours of footage and interviewed all of them etc and know more than all of us collectively so we will just have to back them in whatever they do, after Stringer and Macrae last year - there doing something right.

 

[Trent85]

Draft picks:
4, 42, 60 (Goodes).

DRAFT DAY:
The Dogs finished the season in encouraging form. But they still landed 15th and have ground to make up. They've punched games into a lot of promising players in the past few seasons and turned Roughead into a genuine defender. Only Prudden, Redpath and Greenwood haven't played a senior game, so the club knows a lot about what it's working with, and the Dogs' progression from here will come down to how well their many kids develop. Crameri was a good get, if a pricey one for a second or third forward: his value might not be in how many goals he kicks, but in how much easier he is able to make life for Jones, Cordy and Grant. Pick five should come down to a selection from four or five players - Jack Billings, James Aish or Kade Kolodjashnij would all be excellent pick-ups, though Marcus Bontempelli is the sort of big-bodied midfield option that would appeal to their coach. Billings and Aish have more proven form, and elite composure. Add either, and suddenly their midfield group would look a bit more poised, and a bit more layered. Kolodjashnij is a runner, as is Bontempelli, though he found some late form in the centre square. He would be a big call at four, but a bold one.


http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clubbyclub-guide-to-the-2013-afl-draft-20131115-2xm5h.html#ixzz2kkP6JUxF

 

[fronkalicious]

I'm going to force myself to submit to blind faith in McCartney and get myself all excited about bontempelli if we take him.

 

[stefoid]

Why on earth do you think that?
Let's for a moment except that he is as good as you think, great disposal, awareness and presence. But he is a receiver with just ok pace,he is neither physical or strong nor particularly evasive. So we put him a wing and have to dish it out to him so he hits the target? or more likely we have to turn him into a back flanker because it is not so ease to dish it out, and because if he is good at it he does not have the tools to get away from his designated opponent.

If we want a quality back flanker get the Berger or KK
If you want a weapon get billings
And if you want something we really lack in the mid field, you get pace and take freeman
Our midfield is too one paced

I think Billings from your list fits what we lack most - the ability to turn hard won scraps into attacking play. However, Aish is supposed to be good at disposal in tight situations as well. If Billings is off the table, he sounds like the next safest best bet to meet our needs.

Freeman to me sounds like he has the explosive burst from congestion of a Cooney, but without the finishing skills. And we have plenty of guys who can win the ball and throw it on the boot already. Maybe his disposal will improve to the point where his ability to burst from a stoppage actually matters, but maybe it wont. That doesnt sound like a pick 4 to me.

We need, as you say, a weapon. Serious hurt factor with disposal. That puts Freeman down the list, for me.

As for Bongo (Bontompelli), we are again looking at a risk - he is more of an outside player who can kick it OK in space, and is OK in close because he is hard to wrap up and has a good attacking handball rather than being able to get clear and kick it.

I suppose you would be looking at the 'all over the ground effect' with this guy, rather than a stoppage specialist - someone who could run hard into defence or attack and be an aerial threat at either end. You can see how that could effect a game in a way that Libba or Dalhaus simply cant -- a 193cm mid who can mark the ball is very appealing. Nat Fyffe with a better kick? But Jarrod Grants attributes are also very appealing - in theory...

Is Scharenberg really off the table? He seems to share a number of attributes with Bongo, but hasnt shown the proven ability in the midfield. He seems to me like the Brendan Goddard type who is capable of playing midfield but is better at either end, whereas Bongo seems like the NAt Fyffe type who is capable of playing at either end but is better in the midfield.

Would anyone who has actually seen these guys in person say if thats right or wrong?

 

[funked]

Chad Wingard was picked behind Patton, Coniglio, Tyson, Hoskin-Elliot and Buntine. If memory serves correctly, he wasn't exactly a strong bodied player. In his 2nd year he's an All Australian.

If the kid's talented, and Aish most certainly is one of the most talented in this draft, then just ******* pick him already.

I think that's a bit of an unfair comparison. Both may have been skinny kids and may have talent, but Wingard played a different role based on his stats before he was drafted. Wingard was a skinny kid who was willing to win his own ball while Aish, whether it be by team instruction or not, is a skinny kid who predominantly accumulates his possessions in an uncontested fashion.

 

[Godogs247]

We have learnt in past drafts that always pick best possible -that is Aish please dogs dont over think this please

 

[doggies ftw]

I'm going to force myself to submit to blind faith in McCartney and get myself all excited about bontempelli if we take him.

You've got every reason to be excited fronks, Bontempelli could be very very good. Sure its a risk but honestly the amount of times I've read on this board "take some risks dogs, no wonder we've only won 1 flag blah blah" now we're looking at actually doing that and everyone is scared and wants us to take the safe option.

Anyway I'm pretty confident if Aish is available on draft day, we will be calling out his name.

 

[Tommycash]

If dalrymple passes on aish and scharenberg and bontempellis a bust, that's a career killer right there. Massive call if he makes it. Balls on the line stuff.

Apparently after 5 years of terrible drafting with Scott Clayton, one(Or 10) bad pick(s) will not a career end.

 

[TempleKelvington]

Hmm, let's think what is the #1 strength of our midfield... Sure is tough to put my finger on it, but knock me down with a feather, it's extracting the ball!
Now, what have we struggled with once we get the ball? That would be good disposal efficiency. What is Aish excellent at? Yep, kicking.
So if we continue with our excellent extraction of the ball, and have an option to give the ball to who is a great kick and moves with a lot of time, that improves our side

You don't just plonk Aish on a wing and leave him there. He plays in the middle a lot, at the centre bounces. You're painting him as someone who just sits completely on the outside. That isn't what he does.
The people you want to give it to on the outside don't all have to be speed machines to help you get it out.
Look at the Sydney midfield. Jetta and Jack are pretty much the only ones with genuine pace, and Jetta sits completely on the outside, so they have 1 quick player on the inside. It's more about spreading than foot speed, and Sydney spread better than pretty much every team in the league.

Igloo, have a look at the footage of Aish on the AFL web site if you have not had a chance to yet. I was more impressed with the footage of him playing SANFL level (than I was the U18 stuff), in the mud, where he was at time forward and took contested/brave marks and kicked a very long goals. I think it's a furphy that he's just an outside mid.....I think he gets on the end of it because he's a good reader of the play, but when it's his turn he can get his own.

I have no issues with Aish. I like him better than Kelly becuse I have not seen much of Kelly as forward.....Aish looks at home forward....key becuase as rotations drop...and they will....players more than ever will need to be able to "rest" forward or back and make an impact.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

If Bontempelli is already 194 cm (and 17) then you'd reckon he'll end up 196+. Can imagine him playing time as a gut running forward too - would be hard to match up on him at that size and his fitness. He'd get the tall defenders chucking up Apparently he's a good mark and kick too.