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List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

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heres quigleys writeup on bontempelli.

I was just thinking, in a congested stoppage situation, it must be really handy to have your eye level 6-10cm above most of the others - 'above the crowd'. It must be easier for one of the tallest guys at the stoppage to see escape routes and handball options than shorter guys who have to look around the other players. Quigley reckons he is very good at offensive handball - I wonder how significant his height is with that?

Marcus Bontemepelli
DOB 24/11/95 Ht 194 Wt 84

Bontempelli looks like the kind of mid that all coaches are trying to bring in at the moment. Everyone is trying to add height to their midfield and he certainly offers that. He seems to be working his way up the draft boards and at the time of writing I would be surprised if he fell past the Lions at 7 and he is a real chance to be taken in at 4 if Kelly and Billings are off the board.

It has been widely reported that Bontempelli measured in at 194cm at the combine and then also reported that there was a problem with the measuring and that they could have been up to 2cm out. Working out who measured right and whose height has been inflated is an impossible task without looking at what they have measured before (information I don’t have). With that said Bontempelli is one guy who I expect to have measured a little above his actual height. It could be right though as he is definitely a tall guy and with a November birthday he could well have grown since he was last measured.

The November birthday is something that should be kept in mind when assessing him as it would be a fair assumption that he may have a bit more natural development to go than others, some of whom are almost a year older than he is. He has really developed over the latter part of the year after finishing the Champs strong. He was a little disappointing before that but now he has really reasserted himself as a top prospect and would be on everyone’s radar.

It is worth noting that he only averaged 14 disposals across his 4 games at the Champs and 16 disposals in his 9 TAC games. He played a fair bit of school football this year and when he returned to TAC action around the Champs time he finished in the best for the Knights in every game he played from there to the end of the year. His last Champs game against Vic Country was also impressive with him returning 21 disposals in a very good game for him.

One of the things which gets talked up with Bontempelli is his kicking and personally I think his effectiveness is overstated. He has a very stylish left foot kicking action but quite a few of his kicks do not go where they should. I am sure people will point to his good kicking efficiency percentage but that is bolstered by the fact that he goes long mostly and as far as I am aware anything over 35m is considered effective. He can deliver some really nice passes but fairly often his kicks are to no real advantage. Often he looks so good with his kicking that you assume that he is hitting his targets but that is not always the case. I think his decision making seems good and he takes the right options it’s just that his execution is not as good as it perhaps could be.

On the other side of the coin one feature of his game which I really rate and which is largely being overlooked is his handballing. Bontempelli is a very attacking handballer who sets up a lot of good forward movement through his use by hand. He is not super quick by hand but quick enough and he assesses situations quickly and executes his handball skills very well. He hits his targets in stride and where they need it. He is not a particularly long handballer he just gets it to the right spots.

Bontempelli will start his career probably on a flank but will move into the midfield as he develops. He has worked on his inside game and it is coming along but it is still not a strength of his game. At clearances he tends to sit off as a receiver mostly but when the ball comes to him he will put his head over it and he is reasonably effective. It is likely he will start as a fairly outside player but the potential is there to add an inside game as he develops.

In the open field he runs really nicely. He has very good endurance and good top end speed. He lacks explosiveness though and takes some time to get up to top speed. At the Combine he was in the bottom 10% over the first 5m of the 20m but was able to finish in the 50th percentile over the 30m repeat sprint. He is tall and lean and presents as a pretty big target for tacklers but he is surprisingly strong and elusive and does a good job of shrugging or making tacklers miss. When he is tackled he keeps his arms free nicely. When tackling himself he is willing enough but tends to arm tackle too much and this is something which will need attention when he hits the AFL.

The obvious comparison that I have not seen made for Bontempelli is to Brendon Goddard. Both have the same lean build, excellent height and can play at either end or through the midfield. Bontempelli is going to be drafted higher than his performances this year warrant but I do like the potential there and I can understand teams doing it. He is a tempting package.
 
just so we're clear with what the two kids have done up to now.

Aish averaged around 17 in the sanfl last year, had a very good champs. This year he starred in the champs in one game and was bits and pieces for the rest (against Queensland). This year he's had similar results in the sanfl: 18 touches and 0.8 goals a game. He's played the whole time as an outside mid.

Bontempelli was nowhere last year. Recognised somewhat in the TAC cup and sent to the academy. This year he too starred in one game at the champs and was bits and pieces for the rest. This year in the TAC cup he's averaged 21 touches, 1.6 goals and 4.3 clearances for the year. He's played as a half bank, a wingman, a key forward and an inside midfielder.

Those are some facts. no opinions in there. Just so everybody knows everything.
 
So nobody thinks i've got my head in the sand about MB i'll list my weaknesses for him:
- He's pretty slow within a couple of steps
- not convinced he can play tall right now (mostly marks on midfielders)
- good, long kick, not elite just good
- although special by hand inside, his decision making kicking inside 50 could be better. Likes the long option a bit. Although we're not talking about Boyd style "could be better" you'd still feel good with it in his hands.

in no way am i saying that he is like him, but here is a thought

look at jimmy bartel, he is not a stand out in any one area, but as a whole throughout the game he would beat his opposition time and time again.

all im saying is it might just be the whole package that wins over all.
 
Great write up Dannnnnnnnnn you've done well mate.

The only thing i'd really disagree with you is i think you've underrated his inside game (not by much, it's not like you were pure negative about it).

After the championships he went back to the tac cup and changed position somewhat, he got put in the centre square more as opposed to wing and half back that he had been playing. He instantly dominated in tight. For the rest of the season that he played in the guts he was getting more than 5 clearances a game, huge numbers, which happened to even out his low numbers from not playing in that position at the start of the year to an average of 4.3 for the season, pretty good. In other words, i do think he can provide actual grunt on the footy.

The player on our list i would compare him to most is Libba although he's not as good inside (who is) but he's far better on the spread. That's just my take, and i truly appreciated yours, it's well written and very much on the money.
Fair enough, you could be right. I've been impressed with his inside work in parts, but he's still developing it and it's quite inconsistent. Like I said I don't see it being a massive weakness of his game, but at his height he isn't going to win the ball at ground level as much as somebody much closer to the ground. The advantage he has at his height is that, when he gets the ball in close he's got much greater vision and can get the ball away quite well.

I don't see the Libba comparison, personally. Bontempelli for me becomes an inside receiver; he'll feed off of those Wallis handpasses and distribute the ball forward from in close. To make him effective though we need to improve our ability to win one-on-ones in the forward line or at the very least make something out of the crumb.


Sorry, but the only thing I disagree with from your write up.

The rest I pretty much absolutely agree with though.

Not sure if you made a criticism of this; but sometimes I think his disposals are too safe, like he doesn't choose the most dangerous option and rather plays the safe option..though a lot of this faults in his game could easily be removed from his games after a few pre-seasons.

So I guess non-creative or something along those lines..
That's fine; if everybody agreed with everything I said there wouldn't be much discussion. :P

You could be right in that it's moreso a decision making error than it is kicking (or not having confidence in his kick) but I'd like to see him hit up more leading targets or at the very least go to contests less in space. Griffen is one player who demonstrates what I'd like to see more of from Bontempelli; from in tight, Griff can really gain meterage on the ball and send it to a contest we're capable of winning. Bontempelli can do this too. The problem is, for me, when Griff is outside in some space and has time, he can really hit up players and be really damaging. Bontempelli on the other hand still favours the contest. I'd like to see him lower the eyes a bit more, but in the end I think he'll be a mostly inside player anyway so it won't be too much of a problem.
 

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I think we will draft either Bontempelli or one of the South Australians, and I don't think that will be Aish. I still believe that will be Scharenberg, I think we have done this rather well, would not worry about his feet, club would be all over that. Melbourne asked AFL for scans on Scharenberg last week, and they were done, all ok. He just ticks all Macca's boxes, 90kg 190 cm ready to go. Most recruiters thought he was second best player in carnival. I take no notice of young cadet jurno's postings phantom drafts. I think the big wild card in the draft is Richardson appointment as St Kilda's coach, both the South Australians will come into contention at 3 now. Richardson would have had a very close look at both Scharenberg and Aish, and it would not surprise me one bit if the Saints take either one.
That opens up another selection opportunity for bulldogs, do we take BILLINGS, I think we may.
 
I think we will draft either Bontempelli or one of the South Australians, and I don't think that will be Aish. I still believe that will be Scharenberg, I think we have done this rather well, would not worry about his feet, club would be all over that. Melbourne asked AFL for scans on Scharenberg last week, and they were done, all ok. He just ticks all Macca's boxes, 90kg 190 cm ready to go. Most recruiters thought he was second best player in carnival. I take no notice of young cadet jurno's postings phantom drafts. I think the big wild card in the draft is Richardson appointment as St Kilda's coach, both the South Australians will come into contention at 3 now. Richardson would have had a very close look at both Scharenberg and Aish, and it would not surprise me one bit if the Saints take either one.
That opens up another selection opportunity for bulldogs, do we take BILLINGS, I think we may.
That's different to what all the media reports have said - he's slid because of the scan results, which revealed stress fractures in his feet apparently.
 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ng-feet-injuries/story-fni5f22o-1226761380277


Throwing a major curve ball into the likely order for Thursday's draft, word filtered out last night about growing fears the ready-made South Australian faces running issues because of bone-stress reactions in his feet.
Treatment options could range from pre-Christmas rest to surgery, which could sideline him for months, depending on the medical advice of the club that picks him.
The Herald Sun can reveal the Demons requested the AFL commission last-minute scans on Scharenberg in Melbourne on Wednesday, in the belief he could still be available at the club's pick No.9.
While those scan results are now available for clubs who request them, it is believed recruiters became aware of the seriousness of the problem only late this week.

So it seems the problems surfaced before the scans were requested but they haven't done anything to change the minds of clubs.
 
That's different to what all the media reports have said - he's slid because of the scan results, which revealed stress fractures in his feet apparently.

You take way to much notice of these blokes, you are not recruiting for tomorrow, anyway if Saints take Aish, forget Scharenberg, that still leaves Billings, you did not read my post, that's where it ended,
and that's what it opens up BILLINGS. Do we take him, I think we will. I would not be worried about Bontempelli or Scharenberg, I think Aish is a big chance to go at pick 3, and I think we will then take Billings at pick 4.
 
You take way to much notice of these blokes, you are not recruiting for tomorrow, anyway if Saints take Aish, forget Scharenberg, that still leaves Billings, you did not read my post, that's where it ended,
and that's what it opens up BILLINGS. Do we take him, I think we will. I would not be worried about Bontempelli or Scharenberg, I think Aish is a big chance to go at pick 3, and I think we will then take Billings at pick 4.
I know, but I'm just saying that the news that Melbourne's Scharenberg scans were all okay seems to contradict the news reports. Have you heard something?

If the Saints take Aish (which I still think is unlikely, personally; apparently love Billings) I'd probably favour us taking Kolodjashnij over Billings, personally. But I'd much rather take Billings than Bontempelli or Scharenberg if he's there.
 
That's different to what all the media reports have said - he's slid because of the scan results, which revealed stress fractures in his feet apparently.

Apparently Melbourne played a bit of a part in leaking that information, as they want to draft Scharenberg at 9. No idea if it's true though.
 
Apparently Melbourne played a bit of a part in leaking that information, as they want to draft Scharenberg at 9. No idea if it's true though.
The scans have to be made public though and can be accessed by anybody who wants them, so I can't see it being overly effective if it isn't true.
 

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Interesting that you mentioned Gia in relation to Bontempelli Dannnnnnnnnn - one of the Hawthorn recruiters has apparently quipped that Bontempelli is like Gia inside Jeremy Howe's body.
That is an interesting statement.
I'm almost reluctant to write this because I don't think MB has the instincts or nous to play permanently forward, but one player he kind of reminds me of in a weird way is Jeremy Cameron.
I think it's mainly that quick step & the way he moves.
Also I think they both tend to play above people's heads with their height if that makes sense, and have a bit of confidence that no-one around can touch them.

As has been stated here numerous times. It's all potential with Bontempelli.
 
That is an interesting statement.
I'm almost reluctant to write this because I don't think MB has the instincts or nous to play permanently forward, but one player he kind of reminds me of in a weird way is Jeremy Cameron.
I think it's mainly that quick step & the way he moves.
Also I think they both tend to play above people's heads with their height if that makes sense, and have a bit of confidence that no-one around can touch them.

As has been stated here numerous times. It's all potential with Bontempelli.

I sort of know what you mean in terms of body type, the way they move, both lefties
 
I'm almost reluctant to write this because I don't think MB has the instincts or nous to play permanently forward, but one player he kind of reminds me of in a weird way is Jeremy Cameron.
I think it's mainly that quick step & the way he moves.
This is an interesting statement, given teh combien results had him bottom 10% for 20m sprint, although he was middle of the pack for repeat sprints.

It's odd that two guys we seem to be considering (MS & MB) are taller guys that don't have a set position at AFL level at this stage
 
That is an interesting statement.
I'm almost reluctant to write this because I don't think MB has the instincts or nous to play permanently forward, but one player he kind of reminds me of in a weird way is Jeremy Cameron.
I think it's mainly that quick step & the way he moves.
Also I think they both tend to play above people's heads with their height if that makes sense, and have a bit of confidence that no-one around can touch them.

As has been stated here numerous times. It's all potential with Bontempelli.
Bontempelli has awful acceleration. Jeremey cameron he ain't
 
I actually think Bontempelli has a quick couple of initial steps but then only accelerates slowly after the initial burst. He certainly doesn't look slow for someone his height when he starts running but he's certainly not fast off the mark.
 
What do we reckon? Harvey or Conlon? I can't be stuffed reading the previous million posts.

I'm most excited about pick 42. We can't go wrong with our first pick so 42 is the real question mark.
 

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What do we reckon? Harvey or Conlon? I can't be stuffed reading the previous million posts.

I'm most excited about pick 42. We can't go wrong with our first pick so 42 is the real question mark.
Conlon for me but we won't take either of them imo. Lang, Honeychurch, Kolodjashnij and Brown are the four we've been linked to there.
 
I think it's the initial couple of steps for separation, combined with his long arms which allow him to kind of whip the ball away without people reacting fast enough, that makes me see the comparison.

I know he is nothing like Cameron, just saw something there.
 
You take way to much notice of these blokes, you are not recruiting for tomorrow, anyway if Saints take Aish, forget Scharenberg, that still leaves Billings, you did not read my post, that's where it ended,
and that's what it opens up BILLINGS. Do we take him, I think we will. I would not be worried about Bontempelli or Scharenberg, I think Aish is a big chance to go at pick 3, and I think we will then take Billings at pick 4.

Agree BP that the feet issues are unlikely to be a factor.....have to look longer term than that. I have heard that the Saints were not going interstate with their first 3 picks and I also heard they are going mids.....if true they will take Kelly or Billings.

Leaves us to choose from Scharenberg and Aish.
 
Conlon for me but we won't take either of them imo. Lang, Honeychurch, Kolodjashnij and Brown are the four we've been linked to there.
Paige who seems to have fairly good knowledge most of the time said that we are confident Harvey will be available at 42 so sounds like we're keen on him.
 
Paige who seems to have fairly good knowledge most of the time said that we are confident Harvey will be available at 42 so sounds like we're keen on him.
Confident that he'll be there doesn't mean we'll undoubtedly take him though; the draft is impossible to predict after the first 25ish so Harvey may be our backup "he'll probably be there" plan if the others are taken earlier than we expect. I've just got a feeling we won't take him. I'd have him ahead of all of the other players I mentioned other than Kolodjashnij though, FWIW.
 
Would be interesting to see him play a bit more at CHF, maybe long-term he is the aerobic CHF we lack. I doubt it, if we draft him it will be almost definitely as a midfielder/utility, but I have read that some scouts see him as a forward long-term especially if he is still growing. Just throwing it out there
 
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