List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Chris Grant]

Dannnnnnnnnn good write up as always buddy. But just a question, did you see the back end to Bontempelli's season? Because there's a fair bit which I don't agree with

What He Needs To Work On: I spent a lot of time harping on about the positives of his height in the above section, but now it's time to look at the flip side. You'll notice that I said, "... for his height," a lot in the 'strengths' section and this is a bit of a problem. On the outside he's never going to have the speed of your common outside midfielders, and on the inside he's never going to come away with the ball from a contested situation as much as your 183cm inside midfielders. For his height he has a very good burst of speed and is very good below his knees, but when you rank every player on these attributes he's never going to be ahead of your 'usual suspects' in those positions. Of course he's not going to be playing the same role as those sort of guys and he has the best of both worlds (as well as being very good overhead, something he has over these players), but it's still a little bit of an issue for me. At AFL level I see him being caught a lot more and I also see him struggling to have as much of an impact against those inside midfielders, so his improvement will need to be significant. His athleticism holds him in good stead but it's still a little worry that I have.

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I know you mentioned here he has a very good burst of speed for his height, but I've never really thought this and his combine results back me up on this (bottom 10% over the first 5m and 10m). But I don't have an issue with this (as an inside midfielder) as he reads it well and he positions himself well a the stoppages most of the time. He also tested a lot better in the repeat sprints which tells me where others tire he will get stronger.​

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At AFL level you mentioned you see him being caught a lot more, I'm not sure fully understand this comment. Player's with very good vision like Bontempelli has don't get caught all that often and like you say he's quite quick once he gets going. If he's in trouble he will generally dish out a smart handball or bang it long. I think he understands his limitations quite well and doesn't try to be too arrogant in regards to taking the game on when he knows he can't. I've very rarely seen him get caught.​

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The next two go hand in hand: inconsistency and a less than impressive inside game. Let's address the latter first. I've said that he scraps for the ball hard, can win it, and is good below his knees, yes, but sometimes he really doesn't judge when it's "his turn," if that makes sense. No, it really doesn't. Let's try that again. Occasionally I've noticed him somewhat stuck between two minds in terms of his positioning. He definitely favours the outside and he needs to get a little bit quicker at reading the play and deciding whether to enter the contest or sit on the outside. Too many times he's sitting on the outside (in a fantastic position, mind you; ready to do some serious damage if the ball gets to him) when his team is outnumbered at the contest. This leads to him being set up offensively when the ball is in the hands of the opposition, and as that taller midfielder it's really difficult for him to make up ground quickly on those smaller outside guys. It's why he looks so poor defensively - while he has no issues tackling and will absolutely chase someone down if it's required of him, he's so often in a bad defensive position that it makes it really difficult for him. He's still developing that inside game so I won't criticise it too much, but it really does need improvement. I think half of the problem with the aforementioned positional inconsistency is that he's not confident in his inside ability, and once he addresses this I feel he'll be much more comfortable with going into contests rather than looking for space. He's also very patchy over the course of an entire match, and when the above sides of his game improve I'm quite sure that will also more or less correct itself.

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He's improved on his positioning a lot throughout the year and was winning 6 or 7 clearances on average when I saw him and against some decent opposition too (Geelong, Gippsland twice). There's still things that need fixing, but I can't agree that it's a major issue you are alluding to. Defensively poor? Not in my books. Again it's an area he could continue to improve but it's not poor in my view which does come down to better positioning. Still absolutely needs continual improvement but I just feel you are being too harsh here.​

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Now to his kicking. Yes, I did just tell you that he's an excellent kick out of traffic and no, I'm not losing the plot (well, that's debatable). The problem for me with his kicking is that he has an inside midfielder's kick as an outside midfielder. Now, I'm not talking a Matthew Boyd kick here, and I'm not saying his kicking is a massive problem in his game. It's an effective kick out of contests for all of the reasons I expressed: it gains ground, is well placed and often goes to winnable contests. However, on the outside and in space his kick really doesn't improve a whole lot. It's long and it's accurate but it's rare to see him lower the eyes and target a leading forward with a pinpoint pass. Most of his kicks are long to contests and while this isn't necessarily a bad thing, he just isn't as damaging as I'd like an outside midfielder to be. He's almost like the anti-Billings - dangerous under pressure, not so damaging in space. It's probably something that can be fixed and it's not a massive issue but it's worth mentioning.

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This is perhaps a fair view. What seems to stick out in my mind is with every game that I've seen him play is there's one kick that's incredibly damaging and then you go oh my gosh and start to get super excited. But does he do it consistently for a full game? No he doesn't. I agree with Dav1d view here in that his kicking is quite effective, but he takes the safe option a lot rather then backing his abilities in.​

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This isn't so much a weakness as it is a personal question derived from his weaknesses, however: where does he play? What's his role? He's a tall inside/outside midfielder who can rotate forward Dan, you moron. The problem for me is that, while he is versatile, he has a weakness stopping him from dominating every position on the ground. Inside midfielder? He's still working on that inside game. Outside midfielder? He doesn't really have that pace or the damaging disposal. Key forward? He doesn't have the strength one on one and, to date, hasn't shown much up there. Back flank? Again, not great one on one and not strong enough defensively. All of these things can be worked on but with high picks you want someone who you know can dominate set positions. Comparing him to somebody like Billings, Bontempelli has shown more through the midfield but he's yet to really dominate it. Billings, on the other hand, has question marks hanging over him relating to his ability (or lack thereof) to translate his form into the midfield - however, he has dominated games up forward countless times. See the difference? I genuinely worry with Bontempelli that he may end up a jack of all trades, master of none, and while versatility is a great strength to have, alarm bells ring in my head when it's at the expense of exposed form in a set position.

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I don't have any worries he will be the jack of all trades master of none. I know you have doubts about him even in the midfield but I know when I look at his form in the TAC in the midfield where he can play to a high level. Up forward I do think he has quite a bit of potential too. Down back I just don't rate him at all.​

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We all know this one so I won't dwell on it too much, but what Bontempelli's shown and what we expect him to be capable of are two very different things. He's played some solid games this year but none that I've seen have really blown me away. I'm going to re-watch a few of my tapes and keep a very close eye on him, but for now I'm sticking to my guns on this one. His form has been good but nowhere near top 5 pick good and this is where the discrepancy between ratings comes from. People are rating him based on what they think he'll become, and while this kind of predictive work is what makes the difference between a good recruiter and a great recruiter, with Bontempelli I feel as though the difference between exposed and expected form is a bit larger than you'd expect from a top five pick. I also disagree that his late birthday makes this okay.

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Certainly understand this. I'd happily take him with a top 10 pick. Certainly not a top 5 pick with the other player's on offer.​

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How He Fits:

This is where I'm a little lost and it's where my major objection to using pick 4 on Bontempelli comes in. First, let's reflect on our list. Our midfield is absolutely packed with young talent but their flaws are obvious. Look at it - Stringer, Macrae, Hrovat, Hunter, Smith, Wallis, Libba, Stevens, Darley. None are fast, few of them have genuinely elite disposal, so on and so forth. Those on our list that provide what we're missing all have question marks - Higgins (injuries), Dahlhaus (not in the midfield yet), Tutt (lol), Pearce (more of a small lockdown defender imo and no guarantee to make it), Howard (double lol), JJ (will he transition there?). Bontempelli provides some height, yes, and I'm not denying that we need that. However, I just struggle to see how he fits into a structure. Yes, you rotate him into the forward line - but you can't play Stringer, Bontempelli, Grant, Crameri, Jones and Campbell all in the same side as much as you'd like to. It's tough to see where he comes into it.

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His kick strikes me as an incredibly effective kick out of contests as I've discussed already, but in space I just haven't seen him be as damaging as I think our list needs. With the likes of Libba, Stringer and Macrae we've already got those sorts of players who can effectively distribute the ball from congestion but we don't have that guy on the outside to tear the opposition to shreds with pinpoint passes. I'm not convinced that Bontempelli is that guy.​

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If he becomes the player he could become, you'd slot him in no dramas. The problem I see is that if we keep denying our list some genuine outside speed and skill, we're going to end up with an incomplete list peaking all at the same time but not having the balance to progress as far as the talent on our list suggests we should. It's never an excuse to take a lower rated player who fills a need, absolutely not - but there are likely to be players who have shown more and fill more of a role available at pick 4 than Bontempelli does.​

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My Verdict: Is it a call I'd be making? No. I would be taking Aish, and if we really felt as though we needed a bit of extra height I'd be taking Kolodjashnij. However, Bontempelli has the potential to become one of the best players of this draft class and if we completely believe that we can get the best out of him then we should be taking him.​

This is something I haven't touched on and have questioned. But I can see him playing perhaps in an inside receiver type role which I think is ok. He could play a Nat Fyfe type role where he roams around up forward a bit or could even play as a loose man across half back as he is very good in the air. He's pretty unique really.
Looking at the two players you touched on Macrae and Stringer. Macrae whilst similar in quite a few ways he doesn't have anywhere near the overhead marking abilities plus he can be used down back or on the wing. Stringer is a bull, but will he ever have the tank to play in the midfield? Plus he has genuine forward smarts and looks great up forward. Could he be a Pavlich FF type? Do we know for sure. If we think he's the best player available we can easily fit him in. Is he a perfect fit? Not really, but if we have genuine doubts over Aish or think he's the better player then we have to go with him. We can easily fit him in.

By the way I don't think Aish is the perfect fit anyway as some have made him out to be. He doesn't have the leg speed or penetrating kick over distances to say he's the perfect fit (not necessarily referring to you by the way Dan).

 

[timtamWB]

Isn't that all draftees floor though?

There is no guarantee that Aish will be able to reach Tambling's level.

I was being generous and giving him the benefit of the doubt honestly. I'm trying to warm to him, but it's hard because I can't see him making a good transition to AFL level. I don't feel comfortable taking him with pick 4. If we had pick 10 or similar I would be a lot happier.

 

[yebiga]

When you watch Marcus Bontempelli's five minute highlight video*.

He is slow, his kicking is long but ordinary, his handball technique is terrible, he does not move like a midfielder, moves more like tall backpocket. The best thing you can say form his highlight reel is that he is a decent shot for goal and spoils well from behind. He tested poorly. My best bet would be he would make a good rebounding tall defender.

He is project player at pick 20 with some good upside.

If you want height in the mid field, then kolo has him covered in every department. There are a dozen better players hands down.

It is nice to be loyal to the club but this would be the first stupid recruiting decision made under the BMac era. Many here feel the same but are just far too nice about this.

 

[Kelvin31]

FYI
Here's Bonts "beating" Daicos in the kicking comp on TAC Future Stars last year when he was a Year 11 kid.


And him getting beaten by Boomer Harvey this year


Also a One on One TAC interview with Bonts;

 

[Super Hans]

He is slow, his kicking is long but ordinary, his handball technique is terrible, he does not move like a midfielder, moves more like tall backpocket. The best thing you can say form his highlight reel is that he is a decent shot for goal and spoils well from behind. He tested poorly. My best bet would be he would make a good rebounding tall defender.

He is project player at pick 20 with some good upside.

If you want height in the mid field, then kolo has him covered in every department. There are a dozen better players hands down.

It is nice to be loyal to the club but this would be the first stupid recruiting decision made under the BMac era. Many here feel the same but are just far too nice about this.

I'm sorry, but to be blunt you have no idea.

You're judging these players off only five minutes of footage and you're obviously not a very good judge of talent.

You can't fault Bontempelli's highlights, you can fault his game (e.g inconsistent) but his highlight package, which is all you're judging these players off, is as good as you'll get from an 18 year old.

 

[josh the gent]

I completely agree with you, I'm just giving reasons why I think Macca would be interested in those sort of types. He's spruiked time and again "total football" and the ability for most players on the ground to be flexible and be able to play multiple positions. But MB reminds me too much of Everitt in that regards, as you said he can play different positions but hasn't nailed down a position. I get the feeling he might be lost at AFL level, still show flashes of brilliance, but still be lost.

The big difference with Bontempelli and Everitt is how they are rated!

Everitt was rated as a third round selection on the 2006 Big Footy Phantom Draft - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2006-bigfooty-phantom-draft-official-results-thread.281098/

This was his profile write-up:

#46 - Andrejs Everitt - Tall Defender (Dandenong Stingrays, VIC) - 193cm, 76kg.
Everitt is a good get at #46. Bottom aged and skinny. Has not had the advantage of a second year at TAC level with the associated conditioning and body development, so we will have to be patient with him. Tested well for agility at draft camp and for his 193cm frame seems quick across the ground as well. Reads the play well and is willing to run off his opponent and counter-attack. Not sure he will ever be the type to play on the monsters at CHB, but if he bulks up he might become a mobile counter-attacking CHB or HBF playing on the third tall. Perhaps not a perfect fit with Rivers and Ferguson but nevertheless we still need to bolster or KPD depth and we are happy to snag Everitt with our third round selection.

Bontempelli is very highly rated by all the Phantom Drafters in the know on Big Footy this year - he's a consensus early to mid first round pick - not a 3rd rounder!!

As another point, below is a listing of where he's rated in the experienced Phantom Drafters this year:

Poster-----------------------------Bontempelli----Aish
Knightmare's Power rating---------------7----------5
Chris25--------------------------------7-----------3
Snoop Dog-----------------------------6----------5
Footy Tragic---------------------------7----------12
Quigley--------------------------------12---------11
Rahul ratings--------------------------15----------4
Emma Quayle Rankings-----------------11----------3
Inside Football-------------------------10----------4

 

[timtamWB]

The big difference with Bontempelli and Everitt is how they are rated!

Everitt was rated as a third round selection on the 2006 Big Footy Phantom Draft - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2006-bigfooty-phantom-draft-official-results-thread.281098/

This was his profile write-up:


Bontempelli is very highly rated by all the Phantom Drafters in the know on Big Footy this year - he's a consensus early to mid first round pick - not a 3rd rounder!!

As another point, below is a listing of where he's rated in the experienced Phantom Drafters this year:

Poster-----------------------------Bontempelli----Aish
Knightmare's Power rating---------------7----------5
Chris25--------------------------------7-----------3
Snoop Dog-----------------------------6----------5
Footy Tragic---------------------------7----------12
Quigley--------------------------------12---------11
Rahul ratings--------------------------15----------4
Emma Quayle Rankings-----------------11----------3
Inside Football-------------------------10----------4

I wasn't talking about their prospective talents, how they were rated as juniors. Merely comparing them in that they both seem to be a "jack of all trades, master of none" player and these tend to struggle. Not comparing their ability or skills, because Bontempelli is ahead of Everitt on those.

 

[paul scholes]

Gotta say Knightmare and Chris rate MB highly(respect their opinion )
Everitt and Howard were massive reaches and have showed that.
The world won't end if we pick MB, but in 2 years time we 're sitting here and MB's a bust and others like the two SA Boys arestars ,there will be anger.

 

[Zgope1]

Gotta say Knightmare and Chris rate MB highly(respect their opinion )
Everitt and Howard were massive reaches and have showed that.
The world won't end if we pick MB, but in 6 years time we 're sitting here and MB's a bust and others like the two SA Boys arestars ,there will be anger.

EFA

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dannnnnnnnnn good write up as always buddy. But just a question, did you see the back end to Bontempelli's season? Because there's a fair bit which I don't agree with

Good post and I won't touch on all of it as I can't argue with a lot of what you've said as it's just my opinion from what I've seen and there's not much point going backwards and forwards. A few bits and pieces though.


Firstly, I didn't see much of the back end, no. Most of my information comes from both last year and the champs this year. From all accounts his TAC was quite good and he did finish the season off pretty well but if I were to comment on them it'd be moreso rehashing other peoples' opinions than my own.

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I know you mentioned here he has a very good burst of speed for his height, but I've never really thought this and his combine results back me up on this (bottom 10% over the first 5m and 10m). But I don't have an issue with this (as an inside midfielder) as he reads it well and he positions himself well a the stoppages most of the time. He also tested a lot better in the repeat sprints which tells me where others tire he will get stronger.

This one is a really odd one and it's a discussion I've had with a few on here privately. When I watch him I feel like those first couple of steps seem much faster than he tested, and a few agree. I've questioned my views on this because of the combine results but I actually just don't understand what I am (or think I am) seeing. It may be that he's such a good lateral mover that it looks better than it actually is, but I'm really not sure.​

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At AFL level you mentioned you see him being caught a lot more, I'm not sure fully understand this comment. Player's with very good vision like Bontempelli has don't get caught all that often and like you say he's quite quick once he gets going. If he's in trouble he will generally dish out a smart handball or bang it long. I think he understands his limitations quite well and doesn't try to be too arrogant in regards to taking the game on when he knows he can't. I've very rarely seen him get caught.

This was just poorly worded; "getting caught" was more in reference to opposition gaining ground on him more quickly rather than actually getting taken down and called for holding the ball. Getting caught up to moreso than getting caught.​

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He's improved on his positioning a lot throughout the year and was winning 6 or 7 clearances on average when I saw him and against some decent opposition too (Geelong, Gippsland twice). There's still things that need fixing, but I can't agree that it's a major issue you are alluding to. Defensively poor? Not in my books. Again it's an area he could continue to improve but it's not poor in my view which does come down to better positioning. Still absolutely needs continual improvement but I just feel you are being too harsh here.

His positioning did improve in the matches I saw and it's why I'm not particularly worried about this side of things. It's something that can be worked on quite easily from my perspective and I'm probably not as concerned as your reading of my write up suggests. My point was moreso that I think a lot of his issues can be narrowed down to poor positioning at times and once he improves this he'll go a long way to fixing his problems. I've seen him described as defensively poor a few times. Personally I don't agree, but I was meaning that his positioning could be the reason for this perception. When he gets into a bad position and the opposition takes hold, his poor acceleration makes it really difficult to catch players and correct his positioning.​

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This is something I haven't touched on and have questioned. But I can see him playing perhaps in an inside receiver type role which I think is ok. He could play a Nat Fyfe type role where he roams around up forward a bit or could even play as a loose man across half back as he is very good in the air. He's pretty unique really.

This is a pretty good description of where I see him being at. The reason I'm not 100% sure on this, though, is that we don't exactly play a game style that requires those inside receivers that often. With guys that are so composed under pressure like Libba, Griffen and Cooney, more often than not we go straight to the outside or we boot it forward. I'm not quite sure our game style is friendly to a Bontempelli type but that's just my perspective and we'll no doubt get a better idea when we see him in action.

Overall a more than fair post and a few things that I can't disagree with.

 

[yebiga]

I'm sorry, but to be blunt you have no idea.

You're judging these players off only five minutes of footage and you're obviously not a very good judge of talent.

You can't fault Bontempelli's highlights, you can fault his game (e.g inconsistent) but his highlight package, which is all you're judging these players off, is as good as you'll get from an 18 year old.

You can be as blunt as you like
Why is it obvious I am not a good judge of talent?
I think you will find I am very very often spot on about my assessment of players
I am rarely wrong, unlike most clowns on here who just parrot niceties and forget what they thought a week ago because they just go with the changing wind. Some lame brain journo makes a comment and half the board believe it.

I will be stunned if we take bontempelli - mind boggingly stunned. Aish has some weakness but is still a natural footballer but this guy is so raw it is a 4 year project to get him to get him to play midfield at AFL level - if the project succeeds!

 

[Zgope1]

You can be as blunt as you like
Why is it obvious I am not a good judge of talent?
I think you will find I am very very often spot on about my assessment of players
I am rarely wrong, unlike most clowns on here who just parrot niceties and forget what they thought a week ago because they just go with the changing wind. Some lame brain journo makes a comment and half the board believe it.

I will be stunned if we take bontempelli - mind boggingly stunned. Aish has some weakness but is still a natural footballer but this guy is so raw it is a 4 year project to get him to get him to play midfield at AFL level - if the project succeeds!

I'm a good judge of talent too. I'm rarely wrong. so nyeah. best argument ever.

Do some research and give yourself more than just a 4 minute video worth of evidence and you can then put your special talent judging to better use for us all.

 

[Super Hans]

You can be as blunt as you like
Why is it obvious I am not a good judge of talent?
I think you will find I am very very often spot on about my assessment of players
I am rarely wrong, unlike most clowns on here who just parrot niceties and forget what they thought a week ago because they just go with the changing wind. Some lame brain journo makes a comment and half the board believe it.

I will be stunned if we take bontempelli - mind boggingly stunned. Aish has some weakness but is still a natural footballer but this guy is so raw it is a 4 year project to get him to get him to play midfield at AFL level - if the project succeeds!

I'm also an excellent judge of talent, and so is my wife!

Shocking argument, it's not even worth replying.

 

[stefoid]

Derek Hine on the draft - summary - there is a gap between the top 10 and the rest. (So probably not a bad draft to trade your 2nd rounder pick for a proven player)

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/2013-11-18/derek-hines-2013-national-draft-preview

 

[paul scholes]

You can be as blunt as you like
Why is it obvious I am not a good judge of talent?
I think you will find I am very very often spot on about my assessment of players
I am rarely wrong, unlike most clowns on here who just parrot niceties and forget what they thought a week ago because they just go with the changing wind. Some lame brain journo makes a comment and half the board believe it.

I will be stunned if we take bontempelli - mind boggingly stunned. Aish has some weakness but is still a natural footballer but this guy is so raw it is a 4 year project to get him to get him to play midfield at AFL level - if the project succeeds!

Agree, to me it's a no brainer that you grab the best player available .
The best available player is either going to be Aish billings, the burger,all rated higher than MB.
Not saying MB's going to be an Everitt or Howard, just saying the best players should be picked.
Some of the negative stuff on Aish is mind blowing, ( to skinny ) to much of an outside game, and the one that shits me no end. He can't handle a tag . No Junior players get tagged to begin with, and players do get bigger with summers in the gym.Just remember Griffen and Cooney and many young players couldn't handle a tag, but increased strength and fitness and coaching Griff is now virtually untagable.

 

[paul scholes]

I'm also an excellent judge of talent, and so is my wife!

Shocking argument, it's not even worth replying.

The argument is a tad personal but respected scribes have players at our pick rated higher than MB.
That is a fact

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

The argument is a tad personal but respected scribes have players at our pick rated higher than MB.
That is a fact

Respected scribes all have their misses. It's never a good argument to refer to what recruiters believe imo as, in the end, they could be just as wrong as people think our recruiters are with the Bontempelli selection.

 

[yebiga]

I'm also an excellent judge of talent, and so is my wife!

Shocking argument, it's not even worth replying.

Actually its not a shocking argument because your welcome to search through my posts and be astounded at my unnerving accuracy.
As to the 4 more minutes of highlights they very useful
The various write ups, the stats, and it all paints a picture
Alternatively, I do go to games but with 36 players or more players on the field it is often more difficult to reach conclusions unless you follow someone intently for weeks, seasons.
So in the end, we are all running half blind on this even the recruiters.

 

[the dog's kennel]

For the record, I am the best judge of talent in the world.

That is all.

 

[Zgope1]

Agree, to me it's a no brainer that you grab the best player available .
The best available player is either going to be Aish billings, the burger,all rated higher than MB.
Not saying MB's going to be an Everitt or Howard, just saying the best players should be picked.
Some of the negative stuff on Aish is mind blowing, ( to skinny ) to much of an outside game, and the one that shits me no end. He can't handle a tag . No Junior players get tagged to begin with, and players do get bigger with summers in the gym.Just remember Griffen and Cooney and many young players couldn't handle a tag, but increased strength and fitness and coaching Griff is now virtually untagable.

surely this is an argument for picking Dom Sheed then isn't it? it's a lot more complicated than that and there's different ways to see it. You want the player that you think is going to be the best and just because Burger and Aish have had better junior careers than him they may not have shown our recruiters enough to be convinced them they'll be better AFL players.

 

[yebiga]

The dog's kennel
testing your claim to be the best judge of talent in the world, I searched thru your posts of the last year and unfortunately did not find much to hang you on.
The only thing I could find was that you saw signs of Morris's ability diminishing, which is hardly a call at all given his high standards.
So I can't actually deny your best judge in the world claim - for now

 

[yebiga]

well Sheed would make more sense than Bontempelli

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

The draft may well have broken me.

 

[HK_Bulldog]

This is a pretty good description of where I see him being at. The reason I'm not 100% sure on this, though, is that we don't exactly play a game style that requires those inside receivers that often. With guys that are so composed under pressure like Libba, Griffen and Cooney, more often than not we go straight to the outside or we boot it forward. I'm not quite sure our game style is friendly to a Bontempelli type but that's just my perspective and we'll no doubt get a better idea when we see him in action.

Overall a more than fair post and a few things that I can't disagree with.

I think Inside Receiver is a good description of him. Not a coalface guy like Libba or an outside speedster with a superboot like Rich. However, not sure I agree our game style is not friendly to inside receivers. Watching our last 10 games (and I have watched them a lot waiting for next season ), we play a flip and share Geelong style game. Quick Hands, quick gives playing hot potato till someone gets free. Bontempelli the inside receiver would do well with this game style.

 

[Chris Grant]

Good post and I won't touch on all of it as I can't argue with a lot of what you've said as it's just my opinion from what I've seen and there's not much point going backwards and forwards. A few bits and pieces though.

Firstly, I didn't see much of the back end, no. Most of my information comes from both last year and the champs this year. From all accounts his TAC was quite good and he did finish the season off pretty well but if I were to comment on them it'd be moreso rehashing other peoples' opinions than my own.

Not a problem. It's a pity because my opinion significantly changed after I saw him play in the TAC cup and when I started focusing on his midfield work more I kind of got it.

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This one is a really odd one and it's a discussion I've had with a few on here privately. When I watch him I feel like those first couple of steps seem much faster than he tested, and a few agree. I've questioned my views on this because of the combine results but I actually just don't understand what I am (or think I am) seeing. It may be that he's such a good lateral mover that it looks better than it actually is, but I'm really not sure.

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Yeah I've seen quite a few say that so your certainly not the only one. But yeah, it's never really stood out to me. I did think he would test a bit better in the 20m sprint, say around the 3.10 mark.​

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This is a pretty good description of where I see him being at. The reason I'm not 100% sure on this, though, is that we don't exactly play a game style that requires those inside receivers that often. With guys that are so composed under pressure like Libba, Griffen and Cooney, more often than not we go straight to the outside or we boot it forward. I'm not quite sure our game style is friendly to a Bontempelli type but that's just my perspective and we'll no doubt get a better idea when we see him in action.

I don't think it's been very effective so far. We still don't take advantage of our clearances nearly enough, so maybe we might see a change because we haven't got the right type of player which is where Bontempelli comes in. Macrae did it at times this year I still thought. But yeah good point, I might have a think about it a bit more