List Mgmt. 2013 DRAFT

[Bradschi]

As much as I appreciate some posters on here that may have some information regarding possible draftees/recruits, it is just a bit ludicrous for a few of them to talk down to other posters as if they were on another level.
Absolutely no need for it.
If you have the information and you wish to share, all good, just don't treat other people with less respect just because you have that little bit more information.

 

[marleyblue]

If Krakouer can come out of jail and get a gig with Malthouse then Thorpe may be a chance.

Then again, prison time is almost a prerequisite down at Collingwood

 

[ESKIE]

People may well deserve a second chance but it's not their call for clubs to afford them that opportunity.
If Thorp is the clean-skin that he is professing to be now, then there shouldn't be a problem of him getting picked up.

Even if he was, he's still an 17:1 shot at getting to our club.
Fact is though that clubs have already aired their views on the possibility of selecting him. There are reasons for that to be the case. Clubs aren't stupid.

I'm in the second chance category.

But then what do we know, lets leave it to the experts at the club

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

They won't make it if they're not committed. Dayle Garlett would be playing if he was as driven as Tuohy and Armfield. Club's can only do so much for these players.

How do you get someone to toe the line after our experiences with Fevola?

Plus the rest of the guns who didn't make it or have underachieved for various reasons.

Each draft pick costs the clubs roughly around $150,000 or more. Clubs aren't going to piss that up against the wall on someone who won't fit into the team and the culture. No way, no how. With all the interviews they do plus the psych report, they'd know these players inside-out. No to anyone who won't fit into our team and create the culture we want to build at Carlton.

So basically your reckoning is that we should not take risks because we could not manage Fev..Well what the hell do all the list managers, counsellers, senior coaches, (the list goes on) get paid to do..

How many premierships does Culture win? Name a premiership side who has not had questionable people in their team. How good is Mitch Robinson for our culture when he gets into street fights, what about Judd chicken winging and eye gouging, what about yarran carrying on like a sook for being the sub.. Does this all fit into the culture at Carlton?

I am sure Steve Johnson and Matthew Stokes did well for culture at Geelong, they are fine examples of players learning to tow the line into their career..

What about Buddy Franklin? Is he good for club culture, we hear that he is a bad egg all the time, but he kicks goals and has 2 premiership medallions..

You speak about the money invested in draft picks, so tell me how is money on Garlett and Thorpe more wasted than money spent on guys such as Marcus Davies,Luke Mitchell, Pat McCarthy, Aaron Joseph who all fitted well into our culture. Where did that get anyone, other than 5 years on and the club lacks depth still needing wholesale changes..

Sometimes in sport/business/life it is the largest risks that pay the biggest dividends. If you don't take and manage these risks you don't get a chance for a high return.. If you want to settle for Vanilla type players cause they fit culture then fair enough, but I want players who can put pressure on senior spots and help the side improve on the field..

At the end of September 2014 I wont look back on the season and say well there goes a year and Carltondid not win a grand final, but hey Carlton have the best culture in the AFL so thats something..

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Getting sick of the Thorp rubbish. If you want Thorp, you are free to say so. If you don't want Thorp, you are free to say so. If anybody wants to making sweeping generalisations about the posters on either side of that opinion, be prepared to get smacked.

There is no clique, no protection. We want people to err on the side of supporting the club they profess to love, therefore their criticisms should be constructive ... but they are allowed to be critical. We do not want a core minority of long term posters trying to scare away future generations who do not agree with their opinions. If someone has a reasonably stated opinion, however outlandish you find it, be prepared to be infracted if you dismiss it with words like 'dumb', 'stupid', 'bullshit' etc.

Neither moderators or long timers own this forum. Diversity is the key. Nobody can say that all of their opinions were informed when they first started out and it would be a pretty boring forum if we weren't allowed to speculate or had to rely on posters who claim to be connected.

As it stands speculating on who we should or should not get at draft time hurts nobody, lest of all the club. Time to move on from the jibes. Infractions have started as that is the mood we are in.

Sorry for the sermon.

 

[Silvagnis]

I'm going to laugh if the Thorp bandwagon line up our players in their crosshairs after a bad game or a loss.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm going to laugh if the Thorp bandwagon line up our players in their crosshairs next year.

Let's concentrate on the here and now. Anybody on the forums lining up Carlton players in their crosshairs without being constructive will be looked at. I reckon everybody here has at least one player they haven't been a fan of though.

I also doubt there is a Thorp bandwagon that travel from issue to issue together, that will also be looking to have a go at players together. Most likely a group of individuals who just happen to have a similar opinion on a particular topic. Exactly the same as the so called protected clique that some refer to. It's just a way of being dismissive by stating something that doesn't exist.

 

[Red Bull]

People may well deserve a second chance but it's not their call for clubs to afford them that opportunity.
If Thorp is the clean-skin that he is professing to be now, then there shouldn't be a problem of him getting picked up.

Even if he was, he's still an 17:1 shot at getting to our club.
Fact is though that clubs have already aired their views on the possibility of selecting him. There are reasons for that to be the case. Clubs aren't stupid.

Clubs aren't stupid ??
St.Kilda
Collingwood signing Russell and Lynch
St.Kilda
Essendon*
St.Kilda
Every club passing on Jack Darling
St.Kilda
Brisbane (crazy vossy)
St.Kilda

etc etc etc ...

 

[Silvagnis]

So basically your reckoning is that we should not take risks because we could not manage Fev..Well what the hell do all the list managers, counsellers, senior coaches, (the list goes on) get paid to do..

How many premierships does Culture win? Name a premiership side who has not had questionable people in their team. How good is Mitch Robinson for our culture when he gets into street fights, what about Judd chicken winging and eye gouging, what about yarran carrying on like a sook for being the sub.. Does this all fit into the culture at Carlton?

I am sure Steve Johnson and Matthew Stokes did well for culture at Geelong, they are fine examples of players learning to tow the line into their career..

What about Buddy Franklin? Is he good for club culture, we hear that he is a bad egg all the time, but he kicks goals and has 2 premiership medallions..

You speak about the money invested in draft picks, so tell me how is money on Garlett and Thorpe more wasted than money spent on guys such as Marcus Davies,Luke Mitchell, Pat McCarthy, Aaron Joseph who all fitted well into our culture. Where did that get anyone, other than 5 years on and the club lacks depth still needing wholesale changes..

Sometimes in sport/business/life it is the largest risks that pay the biggest dividends. If you don't take and manage these risks you don't get a chance for a high return.. If you want to settle for Vanilla type players cause they fit culture then fair enough, but I want players who can put pressure on senior spots and help the side improve on the field..

At the end of September 2014 I wont look back on the season and say well there goes a year and Carltondid not win a grand final, but hey Carlton have the best culture in the AFL so thats something..

I don't know why you're still arguing this after Rogers made reasonable and realistic comments. Our experienced coach would have worked with Rogers and given him the go ahead to pass on anyone he didn't rate as the best available player for Carlton. They know the players and the players they need better than any of us.

The club's clearly looking for leaders instead of f players who need to be lead or watched day and night. Self starters rather than problem players and introverts who need time. Only have to look at Graham who is one of the first to arrive and last to leave training. Club's doing the right thing to pass on players who don't fit the culture we want.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

GWS – Boyd
GWS - Kelly
St Kilda - Billings
WB – Aish
GC – KK
Coll – Scharenberg
Bris – McCarthy
North – McDonald
Melb – Freeman
Coll – Bontempelli
WCE – Sheed
Rich – Salem
Carl – Lennon

Would hate to think the black and white fleas would end up with both Bontempelli and Sharenberg

 

[Cringle]

Why are some people suggesting we recruit a has-been Olympic swimmer?

 

[Cringle]

If McCarthy goes to Brisbane
Freeman goes to Melbourne
Salem goes to Richmond
Then we are free to take Lennon

 

[Silvagnis]

Let's concentrate on the here and now. Anybody on the forums lining up Carlton players in their crosshairs without being constructive will be looked at. I reckon everybody here has at least one player they haven't been a fan of though.

I also doubt there is a Thorp bandwagon that travel from issue to issue together, that will also be looking to have a go at players together. Most likely a group of individuals who just happen to have a similar opinion on a particular topic. Exactly the same as the so called protected clique that some refer to. It's just a way of being dismissive by stating something that doesn't exist.

I'll laugh out of bemusement. It's pretty naive to think that club's can change a player, yet we can't get Waite on the park and some of our first round picks to go the next level. Yet Thorp almost deserves more respect and consideration than an injury prone Waite, the durable Gibbs and other players mentioned on this page. I can't go there.

 

[Murphkreuzmitch]

I don't know why you're still arguing this after Rogers made reasonable and realistic comments. Our experienced coach would have worked with Rogers and given him the go ahead to pass on anyone he didn't rate as the best available player for Carlton. They know the players and the players they need better than any of us.

The club's clearly looking for leaders instead of f players who need to be lead or watched day and night. Self starters rather than problem players and introverts who need time. Only have to look at Graham who is one of the first to arrive and last to leave training. Club's doing the right thing to pass on players who don't fit the culture we want.

I am going on because you asked the questions...If you don't want questions answered then don't ask them..Posters are entitled to opinions of their own, not just what the club says to the media.

The opinions I hold are that we need quality KPP's. One that is worth going early for (perhaps McCarthy), we need the best quality ball carrier who might be available at our second pick (shallow draft suggests there wont be much left, Garlett is a quality ball carrier despite his off field issues), and rookie list Thorp if he is there (this falls into line with my original opinion regarding KPP's).

The opinion I have also held for years is that our list needs some mongrel and a bit of strut..

Despite the fact that many posters put their opinions forward in a thread that asks who should we draft, I am unsure of what your actual opinions are on who Carlton should draft..You are happy to put negatives into everybody's wishlists but I have not actually seen what your wishlist is for the 2013 draft (having said that I don't have the time to stalk your posts either).

So without using the club line of best cultural fit blah blah blah, who are the 3 you actually want to see tearing it up in Navy Blue next year? And why?

 

[thylacine60]

If Thorp has cleaned up his act how is it he's tearing this board apart?

 

[Coona Blues]

I really want to obtain an informed, impartial opinion on the merits of possibly drafting Mitch Thorp.
Therefore I have tried to put forward as many pertinent considerations as possible.
Unless one or more of Watson, Casboult or Rowe significantly elevate their performances, we are one injury away from crisis with our KPP stocks...........We have a real need for a battle ready KPP.

On type, Thorp seemingly foots the bill. Originally a Tasmanian, I became most interested in the young player "tearing it up" in the Tassie State League, so have taken more than a passing interest, following news articles and enquiring to the few contacts I have left in the state. Except for the very occasional, very obscure mention of his "issues" all of the reports are positive.

Other than a few posters seizing on broad references that he "has issues" and speaking in general terms, we have had 3 dogmatic posters ramming their opinions down everyone's throats. The most "informed" evidence thrown up is that "my mate plays for South Launceston and has no time for his captain coach....he is a tool". While numerous reports suggest he has the support, if not admiration of his team.

Many of us on here have played a lot of football at varying levels, the common denominator for success, particularly at a perennial under achieving side like Thorp's South Launnie premiers is that the players "buy in" and support the regime. The highlights packages, as well as the performance of the team, speaks nothing but positives for Thorp's case. We have all encountered the ego maniac types who are blessed with inordinant amounts of ability, and too often no work ethic. These blokes do not end up coaching in decent competitions, winning massive personal accolades, leading their state team to victory over the NEAFL (another "questionable" league some might say) rep team. Lets not forget that the Lions, Suns, Swans and Giants second string players play in this league. Posters here continue to salivate at the thought of plucking Jaksch and the like from this comp, yet Thorp plays in the mickey mouse league. (the League that gave Melbourne an unheralded Jeremey Howe as a mature age recruit)

Trying to keep things in perspective I have spent some hours browsing over some old threads on the Hawthorn board. Thorp was regarded as "the messiah", the white Franklin when he started at Box Hill.
Followed posts up until his foot injury in 2009, with the vast majority being supportive to adoring. Then a thread on an article quoting Jason Dunstall regarding Thorp's injury history. Suggested the AFL was at fault for not allowing Hawks access to medical info/exams, and the thread broke down with some posters suggesting that Thorp knew of his issues (mostly hips...2 ops) and should have "fessed up" to the club. There were no more suggestions of his ego and over confidence than those of our own recently departed Luke Mitchell, who was touted as a future leader. For the most part, the Hawk's board loved him.

I cannot claim that there was no bad blood during Thorps delisting at the club. I don't know the story. I could suggest a very talented, but injury prone kid (with an ego) felt very slighted when he went from great white hope to being shopped around in trade week. He was then delisted while under contract. It does not take much imagination to find a scenario unflattering to the kid. Similarly the ruthless Hawks machine was carrying Max Bailey with similar injury issues, they may have been morally improper at the time. Was the kid "screwed" before reacting and obtaining a bad rep? Can't claim to know the answers, but can see more than one possibility.

Thorp never had a pre season at Hawthorn, his recent highlights reel shows a less than ready body for an AFL KPP. He is athletic, mobile etc, but indeed, plays as a utility/hff more than a genuine KPP, which is our greatest need. Really so many questions, which may see us pass.

Just felt the need to share my research. I would hate to see someone passed over for the wrong reasons and am a little aggravated at posters being so dogmatic in the negative, with so little evidence to back up their claims. Too many people in this world have lives and careers impeded or destroyed by little people jumping on a soapbox based on innuendo or uninformed or misleading "information".

"Ego is not a dirty word". Hope someone gives the bloke a go. If he stuffs up someone can say "I told you so"

 

[Chalky Blues]

Clubs aren't stupid ??
St.Kilda
Collingwood signing Russell and Lynch
St.Kilda
Essendon*
St.Kilda
Every club passing on Jack Darling
St.Kilda
Brisbane (crazy vossy)
St.Kilda

etc etc etc ...

You missed Richmond a few times in there as well
Although since Brendan Gale and Hardwick have got in there the place has cleaned itself up a fair bit.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'll laugh out of bemusement. It's pretty naive to think that club's can change a player, yet we can't get Waite on the park and some of our first round picks to go the next level. Yet Thorp almost deserves more respect and consideration than an injury prone Waite, the durable Gibbs and other players mentioned on this page. I can't go there.

You are embellishing. Nobody has referred to him as the second coming or the great hope, yet you respond as though they have. Who cares at the end of the day? Do you think the wish list on BF is going to determine which way the club goes? It's a discussion about the draft and EVERY single player can be discussed in here, and there will be multiple differing opinions.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone AM. Surely you aren't claiming that all your calls and desires in 9 years have been right on the money? Unless they are abusing or bagging existing Carlton players in the process, leave them alone.

 

[Chalky Blues]

Maybe I haven't seen enough of Salem but I can't see how a team could take him higher than Lennon.
Or am I just missing something??

 

[Weiterbot23]

I'm very much getting around the idea of Thorpe, in fact I'm falling in love with the idea.

Will anyone give me 7-1 that we will pick him up AND that he will kick 4 goals in a game in 2014?

A fit and firing 24 year old key forward who was taken a pick before Joel selwood is just what the doctor ordered!

Hendo can chill at chb all year and rack up am AA with Jamo.

2014 will be the Thorp show!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Excellent post Coona blues

 

[FlowersByIrene]

And I think the main conflicting issue on the Carlton board at the moment is there are a lot of posts, like Coona Blues above, showing reasonable, well researched information with the pros and cons and an objective risk assesment, but in contrast to that, there are a lot of posts, under whispered breaths, with nothing buy innuendo and rumour, how can a debate be civil when one side doesnt share its "information" and only talks as if it is a self evident fact and the other side is trying to discuss

 

[happydude]

If McCarthy goes to Brisbane
Freeman goes to Melbourne
Salem goes to Richmond
Then we are free to take McCarthy in 2 years

EFA

 

[dropdead1]

I'm on the 'let's get Thorp' bandwagon! If he stays injury free, he could help fill the most gaping hole in our list. I think Rogers comments regarding the best available 'for Carlton' are more in reference to Garlett.

Go Thorpy! Prove to the haters that you can make the grade!

 

[HBF]

I'll laugh out of bemusement. It's pretty naive to think that club's can change a player, yet we can't get Waite on the park and some of our first round picks to go the next level. Yet Thorp almost deserves more respect and consideration than an injury prone Waite, the durable Gibbs and other players mentioned on this page. I can't go there.

As long as the club has done their due diligence on Thorp and they think he'd be a good fit for the club, then I think we should certainly have a look at him.

People mature - I dare say everyone on this forum would have changed between the ages of 18 and 24. Most people grow up and move on from going out and getting smashed every weekend. There are some obvious exceptions of course.