List Mgmt. 2013 DRAFT

[Azul]

What is your basis for not wanting Crouch, who would you prefer?

Complaints about Crouch are that he's not quick and butchers the footy.

 

[Cringle]

What is your basis for not wanting Crouch, who would you prefer?

Shit hair. I would prefer in order...
Lennon
Salem
Sheed
Freeman
Acres
Dunstan

 

[Bluesince62]

Complaints about Crouch are that he's not quick and butchers the footy.

Sounds like a pre-Brownlow Jobe Watson

 

[GoBlues!]

Cavarra might slide.

You mean the bad guy in The Magnificent Seven?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Shit hair. I would prefer in order...
Lennon
Salem
Sheed
Freeman
Acres
Dunstan

I would say any of us would prefer Sheed or Freeman, personally Lennon only mildly tickles my fancy, regardless if those 5 I'd say Acres and Dunstan will be the only ones which will be at our pick, I cant udnerstand the Dunstan thought and Acres is pretty much the exact opposite of Crouch but both viable so I can understand wanting him.

Crouch v Acres is interesting, just depends what you are looking for, personally I dont want any more inbetween players, people who "could" be midfielders but might just be flankers. Lucas, Yarran and Menzel represent these types of players.
I feel seeing as how we snatched such a talented, tall, flanker/mid in Menzel last year this is the year to go more inside.

Of course its Best Available, vut they are both fairly even just stronger in different traits

 

[Cringle]

I would say any of us would prefer Sheed or Freeman, personally Lennon only mildly tickles my fancy, regardless if those 5 I'd say Acres and Dunstan will be the only ones which will be at our pick, I cant udnerstand the Dunstan thought and Acres is pretty much the exact opposite of Crouch but both viable so I can understand wanting him.

Crouch v Acres is interesting, just depends what you are looking for, personally I dont want any more inbetween players, people who "could" be midfielders but might just be flankers. Lucas, Yarran and Menzel represent these types of players.
I feel seeing as how we snatched such a talented, tall, flanker/mid in Menzel last year this is the year to go more inside.

Of course its Best Available, vut they are both fairly even just stronger in different traits

One of the listed is bound to slide

 

[FlowersByIrene]

One of the listed is bound to slide

Maybr if McCarthy is taken but otherwise Sheed/Freeman/Salem would definitely be gone and I'd put money on Lennon being gone too

WCE could surprise and take Acres in which we might have a shot at Sheed which would be nice, and one of Freeman/Lennon couullld slide if Brisbane take McCarthy, what would be a dream is if Scharenberg slides, but that may be too hopeful

 

[Azul]

We are not a bottom 4 side anymore, Mick Malthouse is our coach.
We don't give out games like chocolates anymore, so when they get called up, you know they've earned it through hard work and good form.

To an extent but Malthouse is more proactive in giving youngsters such as Bootsma a run, when many were critical he wasn't ready for senior footy.

It's particularly important from a midfield rotations perspective. Our stocks aren't as good as the top 4 and with several of our stars over 29, nurturing fresh blood while Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo are still around is paramount.

 

[Sector 7G]

Sounds like a pre-Brownlow Jobe Watson

Are you prepared to wait 7 years for him to play decent footy? If his surname wasn't Watson he probably would have been cut (certainly wouldn't have lasted at Hawthorn where they are not sentimental).

 

[Silvagnis]

Crouch v Acres is interesting, just depends what you are looking for, personally I dont want any more inbetween players, people who "could" be midfielders but might just be flankers. Lucas, Yarran and Menzel represent these types of players.
I feel seeing as how we snatched such a talented, tall, flanker/mid in Menzel last year this is the year to go more inside.

I don't see the need for a player like Crouch. Someone posted that he's like Robinson with his kicking, but he sounds a little like Palmer or even Curnow minus the endurance and gutrunning. Ball magnets who aren't overly damaging by foot. At least Robinson can go forward to kick a goal and take a mark.

Don't know where Crouch fits in. I guess the club could turn Crouch into a defensive mid like Curnow, Carrazzo or Cachia.

I would like a well rounded footballer with 13.

 

[Dramoth]

Get Marsh.

20 goals and 37 behinds in 13 games...............We'll get his kicking right.

And people are complaining about Casboult... who kicked 41.14 in his final TAC year

 

[FlowersByIrene]

I don't see the need for a player like Crouch. Someone posted that he's like Robinson with his kicking, but he sounds a little like Palmer or even Curnow minus the endurance and gutrunning. Ball magnets who aren't overly damaging by foot. At least Robinson can go forward to kick a goal and take a mark.

Don't know where Crouch fits in. I guess the club could turn Crouch into a defensive mid like Curnow, Carrazzo or Cachia.

I see Crouch as a brilliant base for a future star
●He's already got the ability to find the football, a talent that is not to be simply pushed aside as just "picking up stats", its a vital skill
●He is limited by his "butchering" the footy and his fitness, both these things can be built upon over a career.
Fitness is easy to build, give him one or two pre seasons, and beaides I dont buy the unfit tag, if he can average 37 disposals he can't be that unfit, maybe he just doesn't beep test week.
From the limited footage ive seen of him his butchering comes mainly from a mental state of being rushed and just throwing it onto the boot, through afl experience he will learn that throwing it on the boot is not the best option

Plus kicking isnt the be all and end all. His handpassing out of traffic is excellent and a key reason why I love the look of him, he uses strength to get his hands free and make the handpass where others would have crumbled and allowed another contest.

 

[Sin City]

Saying that they're project players isn't a whack

It's been well and truly established by now that Nick Graham is not a project player.

 

[Sublime]

I'd like to see one of our < 10 game players come in and make a serious stake in the team. Who was our last rising star nominee? Yarran? Did Garlett get one? Either way, its been too long!

 

[Beer n Skittles]

It's been well and truly established by now that Nick Graham is not a project player.

I agree with you, he was ready to go & would've played more if he wasn't injured.

But just because someone has a different opinion to me doesn't mean they're attacking Graham.

 

[Cringle]

What happened to Gysberts... He was gonna be alright

 

[Sublime]

Jordan Gysberts got nominated in 2010 and 2011...................as did Sam Blease in 2011 and 2012.

Sounds good but that's not what we're playing for.

Come on now. Of course not every player who gets a nomination is going to turn out, but take the 2011 list for example.

1Dyson HeppellEssendon
2Luke ShueyWest Coast
3Mitch DuncanGeelong[
4Jasper PittardPort Adelaide
5Brandon MateraGold Coast
6Jack DarlingWest Coast
7Zac SmithGold Coast
8Shane SavageHawthorn
9Reece ConcaRichmond
10Jack StevenSt Kilda
11Jordan GysbertsMelbourne
12Sam ReidSydney
13Daniel MenzelGeelong
14David SwallowGold Coast
15Luke BreustHawthorn
16Jake BatchelorRichmond
17Trent McKenzieGold Coast
18Allen ChristensenGeelong
19Andrew GaffWest Coast
20Zac ClarkeFremantle
21Luke DahlhausWestern Bulldogs
22Alex FasoloCollingwood
23Sam BleaseMelbourne
24Liam JonesWestern Bulldogs
Most of that list are walk up starting 22 players for their teams, and quite a few are genuine stars in the making.

 

[smashbox gill]

I'd like to see one of our < 10 game players come in and make a serious stake in the team. Who was our last rising star nominee? Yarran? Did Garlett get one? Either way, its been too long!

I find this very disapointing as well. It was also very disapointing when AFL.com picked a Best U23 side and not one carlton player made the squad

 

[Dramoth]

I would rather get someone who will play 15+ like Heppell & Vlaustin did.

Here is a little research project for you... go to Blueseum.org and have a look through the list of players who were champions for the club and work out approximately how old they were when they started playing for Carlton.

And work out when they were originally selected and when they finally had a major impact on the game.

I am willing to bet that the majority of the guys who you pick out were in their early 20s when they first played senior football for Carlton and if they were picked up when they were in their teens, they ended up playing 3-5 years in the reserves getting experience or they played in a state league (SANFL or the WAFL) before they were picked up by Carlton.

I would prefer that we picked up some good kids, give them limited game time while maximising their games in the VFL. This way, in a couple of years when they turn 20, they are much suited to playing against men rather than the other school kids they have been playing against for the last few years!

 

[mediumsizered]

We finished ninth. Is it our fault Essendon* got a slap on the wrist and we had to play Richmond in the finals?

The perfect storm?

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Here is a little research project for you... go to Blueseum.org and have a look through the list of players who were champions for the club and work out approximately how old they were when they started playing for Carlton.

And work out when they were originally selected and when they finally had a major impact on the game.

I am willing to bet that the majority of the guys who you pick out were in their early 20s when they first played senior football for Carlton and if they were picked up when they were in their teens, they ended up playing 3-5 years in the reserves getting experience or they played in a state league (SANFL or the WAFL) before they were picked up by Carlton.

I would prefer that we picked up some good kids, give them limited game time while maximising their games in the VFL. This way, in a couple of years when they turn 20, they are much suited to playing against men rather than the other school kids they have been playing against for the last few years!

Carlton haven't had a champion player that we have drafted in, for over 15 years. A lot has changed since then and drafting has got more precise, players bodies are smaller etc etc

A better test would be to look at the real A grade players of the past decade and find out how many games they played in there first season., so look at Ablett, Selwood, Judd, Cousins, Black, Goodes, Riewolt and I would guess that almost all played 10+ games in there first year.

 

[Sublime]

Carlton haven't had a champion player that we have drafted in, for over 15 years. A lot has changed since then and drafting has got more precise, players bodies are smaller etc etc

A better test would be to look at the real A grade players of the past decade and find out how many games they played in there first season., so look at Ablett, Selwood, Judd, Cousins, Black, Goodes, Riewolt and I would guess that almost all played 10+ games in there first year.

Black and Goodes both didn't, but they were lower draft picks. A couple of father son selections who would have been top draft picks anyway. The others were all much higher draft picks so its a difficult comparison.

Interesting question that i can't be bothered researching: How many draft picks 12-14 come into their team and play regularly? (excluding the expansion teams of course).

 

[mediumsizered]

Carlton haven't had a champion player that we have drafted in, for over 15 years. A lot has changed since then and drafting has got more precise, players bodies are smaller etc etc

A better test would be to look at the real A grade players of the past decade and find out how many games they played in there first season., so look at Ablett, Selwood, Judd, Cousins, Black, Goodes, Riewolt and I would guess that almost all played 10+ games in there first year.

Murphy, Gibbs & Kreuzer all played 10+ games in their first season at the club, but this reflects where the team was at when they were recruited. Outside of Selwood most of the players you have named were also recruited to teams near the bottom of the ladder & found their way into teams who were down on mature, quality players (Black & Riewoldt both played less than 10 games in their first season though).

It's no coincidence that since we became a more competitive team, our first round picks have not been getting the early games their predecessors were getting during the dark times.

 

[Dramoth]

Carlton haven't had a champion player that we have drafted in, for over 15 years. A lot has changed since then and drafting has got more precise, players bodies are smaller etc etc

A better test would be to look at the real A grade players of the past decade and find out how many games they played in there first season., so look at Ablett, Selwood, Judd, Cousins, Black, Goodes, Riewolt and I would guess that almost all played 10+ games in there first year.

Ok then... I'll give you the stats for your list of players in their first season

C. Judd 22 games for the West Coast
G. Ablett jr 12 games for Geelong - just made it into the 10+ games
B. Cousins 20 games for the West Coast
S. Black 9 games for Brisbane - missed on that one
J. Selwood 21 games for Geelong
A. Goodes 20 games for Sydney
N. Riewoldt 6 games for St Kilda - missed here as well

However... lets have a look at M. Murphy of Carlton
first season - 13 games... that puts him on a par with both Ablett and Black.

And how about that Gibbs guy... has played at least 21 games in every season...

You can cherry pick players all you like. Once in a generation players are just that. They come in and are awesome from the get go just because they are that good.

 

[Dramoth]

Black and Goodes both didn't, but they were lower draft picks. A couple of father son selections who would have been top draft picks anyway. The others were all much higher draft picks so its a difficult comparison.

Interesting question that i can't be bothered researching: How many draft picks 12-14 come into their team and play regularly? (excluding the expansion teams of course).

Good point... I'll go and find out where all those guys were actually recruited.