Banter 2013 End of season random discussion

[Partridge]

And look where playing Blicavs relentlessly has got us. A category b B&F winner.

It is twice as many but highlights how out of our depth we were in the ruck v Sandilands and again far bigger reasons we lost that game than who our ruck was.

Yep. In a team that finished 10th. By 'us' I presume you mean team after all.

Last I checked the success of the team was more important.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

um so you are telling us that Wests worst game against Sandilands was still far better then what Blicavs and Vardy put up in the prelim. Not sure how that helps your argument. Sandilands won Freo the game in the second half. Four goals came directly from him massacring our rucks in that last half in a low scoring game. It would be up their as one of the top couple of most dominant individual finals performances of the past decade.

Because despite the pedestal that West has been put on he's just as inept. Was awful against North and frankly it wouldn't have mattered who we selected in the ruck so getting hung up on not picking West is redundant.

Rather pointless argument.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Yep. In a team that finished 10th. By 'us' I presume you mean team after all.

Last I checked the success of the team was more important.

The team finishing 10th is of zero relevance to the steps that Blicavs has taken. Zero relevance.

Blicavs is now amongst the first few picked in the side and will be in our side going forward where we aim for success. So bitch all you want about West, I no longer care as its a pretty pointless argument.

 

[Partridge]

The team finishing 10th is of zero relevance to the steps that Blicavs has taken. Zero relevance.

Blicavs is now amongst the first few picked in the side and will be in our side going forward where we aim for success. So bitch all you want about West, I no longer care as its a pretty pointless argument.

No indeed. Except that YOU asked this question:

Against Sandiballs do you really think West would have had more luck than the option we took?

I don't.

And because it's been answered - in a manner you either don't like or don't approve of - you've tried to make it (somehow) about Blicavs' development as a player. Which as related to the discussion - the ruckmen we chose for a Qualifying Final - has zero relevance. Zero relevance.

If you no longer care don't discuss it. Not a difficult concept.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

We've been over West a thousand times. He was BOG average. We prioritised games for the better footballer and given it'd made negligible difference but given you hold him on some pedestal and defend him at all costs I have no interest going any further.

 

[Partridge]

We've been over West a thousand times. He was BOG average. We prioritised games for the better footballer and given it'd made negligible difference but given you hold him on some pedestal and defend him at all costs I have no interest going any further.

And also a premiership ruckman. Time will tell if any of our newer and apparently 'improved' versions reach that same accolade.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

And also a premiership ruckman. Time will tell if any of our newer and apparently 'improved' versions reach that same accolade.

Again. We've been over this a thousand times. That game he was a no.2 ruck for which we ended up having plenty and with the most current was rightly traded. Netted Kolodjashnij.

As a number 1 ruck he was Bog average.

 

[Partridge]

Again. We've been over this a thousand times. That game he was a no.2 ruck for which we ended up having plenty and with the most current was rightly traded. Netted Kolodjashnij.

As a number 1 ruck he was Bog average.

I'd go with 'solid'. But fair enough.

The problem is every single ruckman we've had since has been worse.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I'd go with 'solid'. But fair enough.

The problem is every single ruckman we've had since has been worse.

Less durable yes, but wouldn't say they've all been worse ruckmen than him.

 

[Partridge]

Less durable yes, but wouldn't say they've all been worse ruckmen than him.

I would. Easily.

McIntosh - was undoubtedly superior at his best, but we never saw that. We inherited a broken down hack.
Simpson - looked good for all of 5 games in a row in 2013. Less durable than McIntosh.
Vardy - one good game as a ruckman. His reputation exists in a parallel universe to his output. He's got blond hair though. That helps.
Blicavs - a useful backup (depending on the opposition), but absolutely awful as any kind of frontline ruckman. Has been massacred as a ruckman in three finals for us, and we've lost them all.
Stanley - showed clear promise last year, but still only played 8 games. If we get consistent output like the Port Adelaide game, I will immediately and happily change my opinion.
Smith - obviously too soon to tell.

 

[Seeds]

Because despite the pedestal that West has been put on he's just as inept. Was awful against North and frankly it wouldn't have mattered who we selected in the ruck so getting hung up on not picking West is redundant.

Rather pointless argument.

He beat leunberger the week before (the very ruck we have just tried to recruit). It was Wests first game in 6 weeks and the first game we won the ruck in 7 weeks. Why talk about the nth game which was around 6 weeks earlier and he only played Half a game. And despite the media, he still played better then blicavs and Vardy in that game as well. We only really got slaughtered in the ruck after west was subbed off.

 

[Partridge]

He beat leunberger the week before (the very ruck we have just tried to recruit). It was Wests first game in 6 weeks and the first game we won the ruck in 7 weeks. Why talk about the nth game which was around 6 weeks earlier and he only played Half a game. And despite the media, he still played better then blicavs and Vardy in that game as well. We only really got slaughtered in the ruck after west was subbed off.

Don't go introducing facts into the discussion, it's only going to upset people. I think it was also the last time that season we won the hitouts, clearances and centre clearances. Quite a feat given the massacres that were soon to follow.

You're also talking about two of the absolute darlings of this board; you're not going to get admission of any less than wonderful games from either.

 

[Pollywaffle]

Don't go introducing facts into the discussion, it's only going to upset people.

Sagan agrees..

 

[catempire]

West will surpass Polly by the time this thread dies.

 

[Vdubs]

Not sure what that means VD.

What it says is that Blicavs was Geelong's most accomplished (and one of its most durable) players in 2015. It doesn't say anything, or justify anything done in 2013.

That statement does encapsulate how this board looks at times though. The validation of individual players - especially popular ones - trumps team success.

It reflects the sort of season we had where a player with all of Blicavs' oft-repeated deficiencies wins our coveted B & F. Have loved Blic from nearly day 1, but his teammates have a bit to show next year. And if you disagree, then Blic IS that good.
My point was how relatively undermanned we have been.

 

[manboob]

And also a premiership ruckman. Time will tell if any of our newer and apparently 'improved' versions reach that same accolade.

That's what your basing your argument on? Brent Renouf is a jet then.

 

[Partridge]

That's what your basing your argument on? Brent Renouf is a jet then.

No, I was basing my RESPONSE on the idiotic assertion that West was some sort of hack, when he's been better than anyone we've had since.

 

[Partridge]

It reflects the sort of season we had where a player with all of Blicavs' oft-repeated deficiencies wins our coveted B & F. Have loved Blic from nearly day 1, but his teammates have a bit to show next year. And if you disagree, then Blic IS that good.
My point was how relatively undermanned we have been.

Totally agree, but my argument was based on selection decisions in 2013, not this year.

 

[Vdubs]

And also a premiership ruckman. Time will tell if any of our newer and apparently 'improved' versions reach that same accolade.

So is Mark Blake

 

[Vdubs]

No, I was basing my RESPONSE on the idiotic assertion that West was some sort of hack, when he's been better than anyone we've had since.

Nobody can say West was a hack.
But he was never, and will never be a #1 ruckman.
Very good # 2, with the ability to take a great pack mark.
All our #1's, since Ottens, amount to TWO players= Simpson, and HMC
Both eternally injured.
Vardy
Clark
Stanley
Blicavs
all at best, #2 ruckmen.
Finally we have SMITH. I am very much looking fwd to his impact on our future, a (true) bona fide #1 Ruckman.
There is a difference.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Nobody can say West was a hack.
But he was never, and will never be a #1 ruckman.
Very good # 2, with the ability to take a great pack mark.
All our #1's, since Ottens, amount to TWO players= Simpson, and HMC
Both eternally injured.
Vardy
Clark
Stanley
Blicavs
all at best, #2 ruckmen.
Finally we have SMITH. I am very much looking fwd to his impact on our future, a true bona-fide #1 Ruckman.
There is a difference.

No, but the closest thing we had to it in 2013 once Simpson went down. More of a ruckman than Blicavs, Walker, and Vardy could hope to be at that time.

 

[Seeds]

Tend to agree (although I don't think we choked in the pre-lim).

If Clarko was at the helm for us in 2013, we'd have won the flag.
Even with the injuries to Simpson, McIntosh, Enright, Caddy, Hawkins and the suspension of Chapman.

That 2013 QF the perfect example of the difference a coach can make.

Hawthorn scraped over the line under clarko in the prelim despite a week off and almost injury free side.

 

[Vdubs]

No, but the closest thing we had to it in 2013 once Simpson went down. More of a ruckman than Blicavs, Walker, and Vardy could hope to be at that time.

Not according to those that count and know
He was dwarfed by the good true rucks, no matter how you try to spin it.
211 would have had a picnic against him too in that final- you're dreaming if you think otherwise

 

[Seeds]

West will surpass Polly by the time this thread dies.

What a dumb comment. A mod should post better.

 

[Vdubs]

We will never know how he would of gone against Sandilands that year. He did smash Jacobs in the ruck though. Blicavs and Vardy had no hope against Jacobs let alone beating him.

I'm glad you can pick that solo effort, like I can recall Blake smashing Jolly, and Hille, but over the big picture of a whole season, West was not a #1 ruck . That is my only point. I was exceedingly happy with his games in 2011 finals, where we had Ottens as #1.