Super Rugby 2013 Super Rugby Discussion Thread

[Lions1024]

I read earlier today that in the last 10 encounters with NZ teams, the Reds have won 9. It's even more significant considering the fact that the one lost was against the Crusaders last year; a game that the Reds should have won if not for a very poor call from the referee. The Reds have effectively won the last 10 encounters against New Zealand teams. Pretty remarkable if you ask me.

 

[Mint Condition]

Waratahs played reasonably well against the Hurricanes...just didn't take their chances as well as the Hurricanes did. It was a very entertaining game. Hooper and Dennis played reasonably well but the Hurricanes were better at the breakdown. Ardie Savea is going to be a superstar.

Mitchell and AAC are getting back to their best though and Foley was very dangerous. McKibbin was the real weakness. He stuffed up more than 1 very good attacking opportunity. Matt Lucas should start.

Folau is looking better as well. He's so dominant under the high ball and is dangerous with ball in hand. His biggest problem is not protecting the ball well enough when he goes into contact (this is also a problem for the tahs in general). But I could see him playing for the Wallabies at some point this year.

Can't believe the Rebels beat the Force! The Force have a shocking record at home.

 

[S120]

What he said. Was going to say exactly the same pretty much. The Saveas are going to have a huge impact on rugby for the next decade I feel.

 

[Mint Condition]

What he said. Was going to say exactly the same pretty much. The Saveas are going to have a huge impact on rugby for the next decade I feel.

Yeah just when you think we might have an edge over the All Blacks somewhere, with Pocock, Gill and Hooper at 7, they go and find Savea and Cane to takeover from Richie McCaw.

I hope there aren't any other Savea brothers coming through!

 

[Lions1024]

Yeah just when you think we might have an edge over the All Blacks somewhere, with Pocock, Gill and Hooper at 7, they go and find Savea and Cane to takeover from Richie McCaw.

I hope there aren't any other Savea brothers coming through!

Savea and Cane have nothing on Gill or Hooper.

At the same age as Savea, Gill was out pointing McCaw and Brussow, and pilfering at will. Not to mention that Gill has arguably been the best player in Super Rugby this year, even though he's missed 2 games.

Hoopers EOYT was freakish. For a 22 year old to carry a forward pack the way Hooper did is rare.

In any case, i think we tend to overrate the young players that the All Blacks have. A year or two ago Matt Todd was the clear consensus heir apparent to McCaw.Make no mistake, Savea and Cane are both talented but they are a class or two below Hooper and Gill. I think we tend to underestimate how good they are, both are once in generation players. The All Blacks will continue to develop good players and they'll inevitably get overhyped, but replacing McCaw will be a lot more difficult than a lot of NZers think. They would kill to have Liam Gill, who I would say is the closest player I've seen to McCaw.

 

[Mint Condition]

Savea and Cane have nothing on Gill or Hooper.

At the same age as Savea, Gill was out pointing McCaw and Brussow, and pilfering at will. Not to mention that Gill has arguably been the best player in Super Rugby this year, even though he's missed 2 games.

Savea outpointed Hooper last night in his super rugby debut...and in a match where Hooper played reasonably well! Probably the best he's played for the Waratahs this year.

Gill is a different type of 7. Gill is IMO, along with Brussow the best pilferer out of all these guys. He has great technique over the ball and is now developing the strength to match it. The rest of his game is definitely getting better but you wouldn't call his ball running and link play a strength.

Savea on the other hand is a powerhouse. He smashes guys, rips the ball away, smashes through the ruck to force turnovers, runs powerfully, great support player. He could just as easily play in the centres as at 7. He is in the dynamic 7 mould of Hooper, but I reckon he'll be the better player. He's the superior athlete.

 

[Lions1024]

Savea outpointed Hooper last night in his super rugby debut...and in a match where Hooper played reasonably well! Probably the best he's played for the Waratahs this year.

Gill is a different type of 7. Gill is IMO, along with Brussow the best pilferer out of all these guys. He has great technique over the ball and is now developing the strength to match it. The rest of his game is definitely getting better but you wouldn't call his ball running and link play a strength.

Savea on the other hand is a powerhouse. He smashes guys, rips the ball away, smashes through the ruck to force turnovers, runs powerfully, great support player. He could just as easily play in the centres as at 7. He is in the dynamic 7 mould of Hooper, but I reckon he'll be the better player. He's the superior athlete.

Ball running has always been my concern regarding Gill but he's improved beyond sight. He doesn't have the raw speed or power of Hooper but he runs smart lines. I would disagree on his link play. That's a strength of his and the key difference between selecting Hooper and Gill. Hooper is a strong runner, Gill can give you more variety in the G Smith mould.

To be perfectly fair, any openside would have done the same thing against the Tahs pack that ran out last night. They were woeful at the breakdown. Hooper was the only bugger trying to get to the rucks. It was either lazy work or they sacrificed their presence at the breakdown for a more expansive game plan. I have a feeling it's the latter, which I don't mind. It's the Robbie Deans/Crusaders-era style of play and with a bit of tweaking it might work well for the Tahs considering their lack of workman-like forwards.

On another note, AAC has really stepped up in the past few weeks. He's now a certainty for the outside centre position IMO. He just now needs to learn to pass.

 

[Mint Condition]

Now that he's back in form I don't think AAC even has a rival for the 13 jersey. We have no depth there. For the sake of Australian rugby I hope CFS reaches his potential in the next few years.

Big question for me right now with regards to the Wallabies is where do you play JOC? He was classy for the Rebels last night and will be in the team somewhere. I think he's the most talented back in Australian rugby...but his lack of a set position hurts him. I see him as a long term 12 but he's no chance of getting picked there if he isn't playing there for the Rebels. Good option for 15 and 14 as well but probably not first in line as a specialist in those positions. Do you fit him in the starting side somewhere or play him off the bench?

 

[S120]

I think you play him off the bench. As you say, he hasn't settled in a spot at Super or Test level yet. His best spot for the Wallabies at this stage I think is on the wing (long term, it's probably at 12) but I'd be picking Mitchell and Ioane as my first choice wingers at this stage. I don't think he's a realistic shot at being the fly half for this Lions series. I don't think 10 suits him and I don't really like the idea of him at 15 with North/Cuthbert and co. contesting bombs against him all night. He just isn't big enough for that IMO.

I'd have him as my outside backs reserve (knowing that he can cover an inside back position if required).

 

[chargers 09]

Southern Kings have been more competitive than I thought, and I'm somewhat happy that the Cheetahs are doing well this season. Agreed on AAC, hes the best 13 in the world when in form IMO.

 

[S120]

AAC is a very good 13 at his best but not best in the world. I'd have Conrad Smith or Manu Tuilagi. Even Wes Fofana possibly (though he is more of a 12).

Force have signed Luke Morahan. Good signing. They missed out on James Hanson who has re-signed with the Reds but I like that the Force are targeting some very talented fringe players from the top sides.

 

[Lions1024]

AAC is a very good 13 at his best but not best in the world. I'd have Conrad Smith or Manu Tuilagi. Even Wes Fofana possibly (though he is more of a 12).

Force have signed Luke Morahan. Good signing. They missed out on James Hanson who has re-signed with the Reds but I like that the Force are targeting some very talented fringe players from the top sides.

Luke has been pretty unlucky in that the Reds have got some pretty talented outside backs coming through. He's been supplanted by CFS, Toua, Shipperley and to an extent, Lance. Hanson is an important resigning, he provides that counter-balance to S Faingaa. I would be pretty upset if he left.

I'm livid to hear that Mafi will be leaving Australia after being told he isn't in Deans plan. It's just mind boggling, especially considering the fact that Vuna was picked last year. Mafi would be the logical replacement for Digby if he gets injured or leaves. Digby is a pretty good chance of leaving after the Lions tour. He's got pretty bad knees and he sacrificed a lot of money a few years ago to stay in Australia, there's a fair chance he's going to take up a big money contract. I just don't understand Deans and his thinking process.

 

[Lions1024]

Reds are back.

I have a feeling that Liam Gill will quickly surpass Pocock and McCaw as the worlds best openside.

Edit: Quade Cooper has made Deans look like a bit of a fool. It's an atrocity that he didn't make the logistics for whatever reason. He's far and away our best flyhalf.

 

[Mint Condition]

Australian super rugby teams now have a 6-1 winning record over NZ teams this season!

No one would have predicted that. What a win for the Force in particular. It's kind of hilarious that their two wins this year have been against the Reds and the Crusaders while they've lost to the Rebels twice!!

The Reds played very well and you've got to say they're now back to being the title contenders they should be. The match against the Brumbies this weekend will be massive in terms of determining the top Australian team. Some great individual match ups too especially Smith vs Gill. Both played equally well this weekend. It would be awesome to see Smith play against the Lions. Doubt there's been many players in history who have played against them in two series 12 years apart. But Deans doesn't like him, so I imagine he'll be crossing his fingers that Gill outplays him and Hooper keeps improving.

He'll probably also be hoping that Lilo out plays Cooper.

 

[Lions1024]

Finally got to watch the Western Force and Rebel games. Extremely impressed by the Force, the same defence we saw against the Reds were on show again. If they can consistently play like that, they will be hard to beat.

First thing, if JOC is picked as our starting flyhalf, we're going to be in huge trouble. He just struggles with the timing of plays. If Deans has put a line through Cooper, Toomua, Foley or even Norton-Knight has to be the next option. The Lions are going to kill us in the outerfield if JOC keeps sending the ball out wide when the opposition has numbers.

Secondly, it seems all the players coming back from Japan are playing career best football. The likes of G Smith, MMM, Auelua and Norton Knight are playing incredible football. I have a feeling more and more players will go to Japan for a break and come back.

 

[chargers 09]

Finally got to watch the Western Force and Rebel games. Extremely impressed by the Force, the same defence we saw against the Reds were on show again. If they can consistently play like that, they will be hard to beat.

First thing, if JOC is picked as our starting flyhalf, we're going to be in huge trouble. He just struggles with the timing of plays. If Deans has put a line through Cooper, Toomua, Foley or even Norton-Knight has to be the next option. The Lions are going to kill us in the outerfield if JOC keeps sending the ball out wide when the opposition has numbers.

Secondly, it seems all the players coming back from Japan are playing career best football. The likes of G Smith, MMM, Auelua and Norton Knight are playing incredible football. I have a feeling more and more players will go to Japan for a break and come back.

Spose they come back a bit more mentally refreshed perhaps? Will the centre combo of Lilo and AAC work?
JOC has to play as an outside back IMO.

 

[Lions1024]

Spose they come back a bit more mentally refreshed perhaps? Will the centre combo of Lilo and AAC work?
JOC has to play as an outside back IMO.

In theory, it should work. But you never know with the chemistry between players. I probably would pick a Tapuai/AAC combination. Lilo hasn't played a test yet and the Lions isn't exactly the game to test him in. Tapauai has been one of the most underrated players this year. Carried the Reds attack during the early stages. I think he's a better player at 12 than Lilo.

 

[Mint Condition]

Secondly, it seems all the players coming back from Japan are playing career best football. The likes of G Smith, MMM, Auelua and Norton Knight are playing incredible football. I have a feeling more and more players will go to Japan for a break and come back.

I've noticed this too. My theory is that the Japanese rugby is very fast and skillful but a lot less physical. Thus it's a bit of a break in a physical sense but the skills and fitness remain sharp.

It's a contrast to a lot of northern hemisphere rugby which is very physical but slower and less skillful. Few players come back, but the ones that do often haven't done so well back in super rugby (Elsom and McAllister for example).

 

[Lions1024]

I've noticed this too. My theory is that the Japanese rugby is very fast and skillful but a lot less physical. Thus it's a bit of a break in a physical sense but the skills and fitness remain sharp.

It's a contrast to a lot of northern hemisphere rugby which is very physical but slower and less skillful. Few players come back, but the ones that do often haven't done so well back in super rugby (Elsom and McAllister for example).

I reckon a stint in Japan would do wonders for TPN and Palu.

 

[Lions1024]

Don't know where to put this, but players are fleeing the Tahs. Next year they might just have a handful of Wallabies (2-3). TPN is as good as gone and it isn't with an overseas club. Fat Cat and Palu are looking at their options. Barnes, Mitchell and Timani have confirmed that they're leaving. Lachie Turner might be cut at the end of the year. Folau is off to the Bulldogs, unless he makes a pretty significant U-turn. The signing of Horne and Douglas aren't guaranteed either.

On the Rebels, Damien Hill is apparently on thin ice. I grossly overestimated the loyalty of his players, apparently they're the ones making the push. Beale and JOC are shopping around. Wouldn't be surprised to see JOC go to the Reds/Brumbies and Beale to the Tahs.

 

[Lions1024]

Good win by the Tahs.

Mesam might find himself in a bit of trouble for a few incidents.

 

[Mint Condition]

Great win for the Tahs to keep them in contention. Played really well in the first half and then to have the composure to score the winning try at the end (after the Chiefs had really lifted in the 2nd half) is a great sign.

Don't know where to put this, but players are fleeing the Tahs. Next year they might just have a handful of Wallabies (2-3). TPN is as good as gone and it isn't with an overseas club. Fat Cat and Palu are looking at their options. Barnes, Mitchell and Timani have confirmed that they're leaving. Lachie Turner might be cut at the end of the year. Folau is off to the Bulldogs, unless he makes a pretty significant U-turn. The signing of Horne and Douglas aren't guaranteed either.

I don't mind a bit of a cleanout. Give Cheika the chance to get the exact team he wants. Would love to keep Robinson, TPN (though I do worry about all the head knocks he's had), Douglas and Folau of those you've mentioned but the others are passed their best. Lachie Turner has had hamstring problems for the past couple of years which has meant he's lost a lot of pace. If he can get that fixed up and back to his former self he could be a good buy for a team like the Rebels...but the tahs have plenty of depth on the wing and he must be getting paid a lot for a guy not in the 22. You'd think it'd be more likely that he'd go overseas.

I hope Folau stays. He played brilliantly at times last night. It would be such a shame to see him leave after 1 year because he could be a superstar in rugby. Surely if he bothered to come for 1 year he should give it a proper go given the way he's improving. Could definitely be the best of the australian league converts. And who would want to go to the Bulldogs right now!? In the next 2-3 years he could play in a Lions series and a world cup plus test matches around the world. Then go back to league at 26/27 while still in his prime. Then back to rugby aged 30/31 to play in the south of France. That's what I'd be thinking in his position anyway.

 

[Santana]

Israel is as good as gone if we're being honest.

 

[Mint Condition]

Looking forward to Brumbies vs Reds tonight. Massive game. I doubt it'll be a hugely free flowing game but should be very high intensity. Will be interesting to see if the Brumbies can bully the Reds like they did in the first match. The Reds have to try and stop the Brumbies from turning the match into a complete arm wrestle. If they can open it up at some stage they'll have the advantage.

 

[Mint Condition]

Israel is as good as gone if we're being honest.

He was as good as gone to Parramatta at one stage as well.

If he does go he'd be smart not to announce anything until after the Lions series. The way he's going he'll be in that squad...but I doubt they'd pick him if he signed for the Bulldogs beforehand.