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2013 Team

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PattyKisagun said:
I think a lot of people are going to realise quite quickly next season how much better a team we are with Leuy playing. I also think we'll have a fair idea of whether or not finals are a chance by the end of round 3. Here's to an injury free pre-season :thumbsu:
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By round 3 is a stretch the evidence is in Essendon and Carlton this season, remember it's a loooooong season.
 
jjami15 said:
By round 3 is a stretch the evidence is in Essendon and Carlton this season, remember it's a loooooong season.
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Haha well aware of that, but I just mean in terms of how well our group has developed over the off season. I don't think there's much possibility that Burton will do to them what the Bombers had done to them over the off season, and our game plan doesn't rely as strongly on our talent as Carlton's does/did. All I'm saying is that I think we'll get a fair idea on our group very early next season.
 
It's hard to see Beams not in the round 1 team now.

B: Adcock, Merrett, Drummond
HB: Golby, Patfull, ______
C: Redden, Rockliff, Hanley
HF: Beams, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, _____, Bewick
R: Leuenberger, Black, Rich
I: Lester, Raines, Green
S: _____

Key:

bold = definites
blue = probables

I can't bring myself to put all of Merrett, Patfull and Maguire in defence, but that's probably what they'll do. Lisle the most likely at full forward if we don't get Tippett. Not sure if Drummond deserves to be in the team based on this year's form, but can't see them leaving him out if he's fit. Sub can be either Polkinghorne (who the coaches love) or Yeo (who the fans love). Harwood unlucky. Hopefully Docherty, Karnezis and Polec can really progress over the preseason and force their way in.
 
Grimreepah said:
It's hard to see Beams not in the round 1 team now.

B: Adcock, Merrett, Drummond
HB: Golby, Patfull, ______
C: Redden, Rockliff, Hanley
HF: Beams, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, _____, Bewick
R: Leuenberger, Black, Rich
I: Lester, Raines, Green
S: _____

Key:

bold = definites
blue = probables

I can't bring myself to put all of Merrett, Patfull and Maguire in defence, but that's probably what they'll do. Lisle the most likely at full forward if we don't get Tippett. Not sure if Drummond deserves to be in the team based on this year's form, but can't see them leaving him out if he's fit. Sub can be either Polkinghorne (who the coaches love) or Yeo (who the fans love). Harwood unlucky. Hopefully Docherty, Karnezis and Polec can really progress over the preseason and force their way in.
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Pretty fair assessment there. I would have Bewick & Beams as definites. Hudson may still be around too as a probable. Hopefully he goes around again.
 

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At the moment, my thinking would be along the following lines:

B: M.Golby, M.Maguire, J.Patfull
HB: R.Harwood, B.Staker, J.Adcock
C: P.Hanley, A.Raines, T.Rockliff
HF: D.Zorko, J.Brown, J.Green
F: A.McGrath, D.Merrett, J.Lisle
Foll: M.Leuenberger, J.Redden, D.Rich
Int: R.Bewick, C.Beams, J.Polec, J.Polkinghorne

If Staker, Maguire and Patfull could hold down the key defensive posts, then I think there is real merit in playing D.Merrett as a key forward.
 
Stocka said:
At the moment, my thinking would be along the following lines:

B: M.Golby, M.Maguire, J.Patfull
HB: R.Harwood, B.Staker, J.Adcock
C: P.Hanley, A.Raines, T.Rockliff
HF: D.Zorko, J.Brown, J.Green
F: A.McGrath, D.Merrett, J.Lisle
Foll: M.Leuenberger, J.Redden, D.Rich
Int: R.Bewick, C.Beams, J.Polec, J.Polkinghorne

If Staker, Maguire and Patfull could hold down the key defensive posts, then I think there is real merit in playing D.Merrett as a key forward.
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Doesn't playing Merrett forward basically mean we don't need Lisle in the same role? If we went that way, I'd prefer to go with a more mobile "3rd tall" (Lester/Karnezis), another genuine small forward (Banfield) or another running player (Black). Not sure I'd be comfortable with Brown, Merrett and Lisle all playing forward.
 
Grimreepah said:
It's hard to see Beams not in the round 1 team now.

B: Adcock, Merrett, Drummond
HB: Golby, Patfull, ______
C: Redden, Rockliff, Hanley
HF: Beams, Brown, Zorko
F: McGrath, _____, Bewick
R: Leuenberger, Black, Rich
I: Lester, Raines, Green
S: _____

Key:

bold = definites
blue = probables

I can't bring myself to put all of Merrett, Patfull and Maguire in defence, but that's probably what they'll do. Lisle the most likely at full forward if we don't get Tippett. Not sure if Drummond deserves to be in the team based on this year's form, but can't see them leaving him out if he's fit. Sub can be either Polkinghorne (who the coaches love) or Yeo (who the fans love). Harwood unlucky. Hopefully Docherty, Karnezis and Polec can really progress over the preseason and force their way in.
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Agree with everything, it's wonderful what an injury-free team can do to a side. How about Staker for full-forward too? That leaves 2 positions remaining, would imagine someone like Polec or a Bartlett could be substitute and at the Left HB, it could be Harwood.
 
POBT said:
Doesn't playing Merrett forward basically mean we don't need Lisle in the same role? If we went that way, I'd prefer to go with a more mobile "3rd tall" (Lester/Karnezis), another genuine small forward (Banfield) or another running player (Black). Not sure I'd be comfortable with Brown, Merrett and Lisle all playing forward.
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If that is the case then it may not bode well for Lisle at all, if we end up securing Tippett or even if Staker makes a successful comeback.

I think both Merrett and Lisle might be mobile enough to be played up forward and share some time in the ruck. I think we'd still need two key forwards (Brown and either Merrett or Lisle) up forward when one of Merrett or Lisle were in the ruck. All three of Brown, Merrett and Lisle are capable of working up the ground, each with slightly different twists to how they go about it, that would give us some flexibility. I'm not so sure that the likes of Karnezis, Cornelius, Retzlaff or Lester will give us the same thing - although, there's room for these players to improve yet, or for a different strategy to be taken to utilise what they do offer.

Also, I'd imagine that if this line-up went ahead (Brown, Merrett and Lisle up forward, with the latter two providing ruck reflief), that Lisle would probably be subbed-out quite often, in exchange for a small forward.

I've been thinking for a while that perhaps Merrett's pace and physical dominance might be of more use to us up forward, than down back. If we don't secure Tippett (or someone else who we haven't thought/heard of yet), then I'd be hoping that we run with Merrett, instead.
 
I personally would like to see something like this for round 1 next year


B: M.Golby, D. Merrett, R.Lester
HB: P.Hanley, J.Patfull, J.Adcock
C: J.Polec, A.Raines, S.Docherty
HF: D.Zorko, J.Brown, T.Rockliff
F: R.Bewick, J. Lisle, J.Green
Foll: M.Leuenberger, J.Redden, D.Rich
Int: C.Beams, E.Yeo, R.Harwood/Polkinghorne
Sub: A.McGrath

I personally think that would be a great size, but one that is flexible to change depending on the situation, with Macguire coming in where teams have bigger forwards. I also think that the following players could push for a spot come years end and I would like to see with development both Bartlett and Karnezis coming into the team, perhaps for Harwood/Polkinghorne.

Edit: I would have Black on the Bench over Harwood/Polkinghorne
 
Stocka said:
If that is the case then it may not bode well for Lisle at all, if we end up securing Tippett or even if Staker makes a successful comeback.
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I think getting Tippett will make life difficult for Lisle - at least in the short term while Brown is around.

I think both Merrett and Lisle might be mobile enough to be played up forward and share some time in the ruck. I think we'd still need two key forwards (Brown and either Merrett or Lisle) up forward when one of Merrett or Lisle were in the ruck. All three of Brown, Merrett and Lisle are capable of working up the ground, each with slightly different twists to how they go about it, that would give us some flexibility. I'm not so sure that the likes of Karnezis, Cornelius, Retzlaff or Lester will give us the same thing - although, there's room for these players to improve yet, or for a different strategy to be taken to utilise what they do offer.
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I think that we're dealing with a very different ruckman next year. Hudson basically was a two role player - ruck or bench. Leuenberger has some flexibility in his game to be able to go forward for a stint. Hudson simply didn't have that in his game. I'm not saying that Leuey is the reincarnation of Fish Salmon but, for small stints, all you need is someone to provide a target and maintain the structure and Leuenberger is capable of that.

If you go from 3 tall forwards to 2, it enables you to bring in someone who provides more run and carry, agility and ground level competitiveness. You'll get better defensive pressure and you'll supplement your midfield. Whether that is a Lester/Karnezis type or simply another onballer or flanker, I think you gain a lot more than if you play 3 genuine tall forwards who are very similar types.

To be honest, I think that Voss showed his hand last year when he stopped giving games to Cornelius/Karnezis and utilised Ash and then Bewick as the third marking option. And I think we looked a better side as a result. It isn't ideal - those guys shouldn't be "3rd talls" but it undoubtedly improved the balance of the side.

I've been thinking for a while that perhaps Merrett's pace and physical dominance might be of more use to us up forward, than down back. If we don't secure Tippett (or someone else who we haven't thought/heard of yet), then I'd be hoping that we run with Merrett, instead.
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I just don't see Merrett going forward and Lisle/Brown both playing. I liked Merrett as a forward and he gave more than Lisle did but I am very uncomfortable with the 3 of them playing in the same forward structure. IMO, if Merrett goes forward, Lisle falls out.

Playing 3 genuine talls up forward is a luxury for good sides with dominant midfields. We can't afford that luxury IMO.
 
Assuming that we don't get Tippett, I suspect Voss will persist with trying Leuenberger in the forwardline, and playing one of Longer, Hudson or another as yet unknown ruckman in the side. The only reason I think that is because that's how we started the 2012 season and Luey's absence was how Voss publicly justified playing Merrett down forward.

Myself, I just don't get it. I don't agree with POBT that Luey has shown the flexibility to be able to play forward. The only advantage I can see that he has in the forwardline is his height, and that's not enough.

I do however agree that we look a better side with two tall forwards and a third smaller, marking option. McGrath played this role best this season. Bewick looks capable but isn't quite as quick off the mark nor as canny about finding space. Karnezis probably has the right attributes but he might be wasted in that role. Rockliff can play there occasionally.

Personally I think we'd be best off giving Lisle an extended run in the forward/ruck role to start next season.
 

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I actually prefer Leuenberger in the role Maric and McEvoy both play - they drift back in defence rather than up forward, and can intercept mark and rebound. There's less chance of a contested mark being required, which is one of Leuenberger's weaknesses, and he can use his athleticism better going forward.
 
TomFC said:
Myself, I just don't get it. I don't agree with POBT that Luey has shown the flexibility to be able to play forward. The only advantage I can see that he has in the forwardline is his height, and that's not enough.
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I think he's more proficient than Hudson and, as I said, is capable of providing a target. I think he's shown glimpses. Personally, I don't want to play him there any more than in a part time capacity (but I agree with you that Voss may well go back to round 1, 2012 and effectively play him as the forward/ruck).

I'm OK for him to spend 5-10 minute stints up forward whilst Tippett/Lisle takes a turn in the ruck. He's never going to be a star forward (hence my comment about Salmon) but he can present as a target and take the occasional mark. When your 2nd ruck goes onball, you simply want to maintain your structure and have someone provide a contest. Unfortunately, Hudson has showed zero aptitude as a forward across the course of his career. Leuey is more capable than him.

I do however agree that we look a better side with two tall forwards and a third smaller, marking option. McGrath played this role best this season. Bewick looks capable but isn't quite as quick off the mark nor as canny about finding space. Karnezis probably has the right attributes but he might be wasted in that role. Rockliff can play there occasionally.
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Yeah, it just seems as though those guys (Bewick/McGrath/Rocky) were better at finding space on the lead and, possibly more importantly, worked hard both ways. Ideally, we'll develop someone who stretches the opposition a bit more in the marking contest but doesn't cost us anything defensively or when the ball hits the deck. I reckon that 3rd/4th forward role is very much up in the air.

Personally I think we'd be best off giving Lisle an extended run in the forward/ruck role to start next season.
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Assuming we don't get Tippett, this is my preference too. Brown/Lisle/3rd marking target with Lisle as the 2nd ruckman.
 
I personally can't see Maguire not being named in the side if fit. I thought he was a real barometer for us down back and even with Merrett down back, releases Patfull to being that more damaging player with the ability to play on the opposition's third tall or dangerous forward.
 
For some reason my quoting business isn't working (probably a temporary error only?) so I'll do my best to make this clear.

At POBT:

I agree that when McGrath/Bewick played that 3rd tall role they did it much better then Cornelius or Karnesis did. I think with Lisle and Brown in the forward line, their defensive pressure really isn't great, so that 3rd marking option has to be really keen in their defensive aspects of the game. For Cornelius or Karnesis to do this they really need to work hard as they don't necessarily have the pace that a smaller player would. The thing is though they need to throw their weight around and use their bigger bodies to really hurt the oppositions defenders when they catch them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cornelius put on some more muscle so he can compete with the bigger defenders and improve his ability to stick tackles. I think long term both of these players would be better options at the 3rd tall role, once their fitness allows them to chase hard all day. (Keeping in mind Karnesis could be groomed for a different role).

I think the biggest problem we have in our forward line and ruckmen is that none (bar Brown, and he's getting on a little bit too) are exceptionally good at tacking contested marks. This is the biggest problem when our defenders are looking for that long chop out kick 60m-70m from our defensive goal that no-one can very often clunk that mark on the wing. Being able to do that totally opens up the press and allows all your smaller quick players to run back and get easy fast break goals. Lisle/Cornelius/Hudson/Leuenburger/Longer/Karnesis/Staker none of these guys are AMAZING contested markers (like a T.Cloke for instance) and that's what I think Tippett could really offer our team (as he has that potential).

At Dylan12:

I also think you are onto something there, Patfull has showed in glimpses that he can be damaging off half back if he has the option and I think that Merrett has shown enough around the ground to prove he can play at CHB comfortably as well as at FB. It makes our defence quite versatile when both he and Maguire have the ability to play CHB/FB, meaning they can't simply drag one out of the forward line and make them feel uncomfortable.
 
I should have a crack at this:

B: Patfull, Merrett, Golby
HB: Drummond. Maguire, Adcock
C: Hanley, Redden, Rockliff
HF: Zorko, Brown, Rich
F: McGrath, Lisle, Green
Ruck: Leuenberger, Raines, Black
Inter: Beams, Lester, Yeo
Sub: Bewick

I suspect we might pull a bit of a surprise in trade week, though. If we think we have cap space and trade currency to get Tippett for 2013, then if we miss out on him I’d expect us to go after someone else.

EDIT: And right on cue...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/147952/default.aspx
 
POBT said:
I think getting Tippett will make life difficult for Lisle - at least in the short term while Brown is around.
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He might find it tough even if some of the other mid-sized players are pushing hard for selection. I had Staker in the team above along with a few other mid-sizers in defense (leaving Drummond out), but there is also the likes of Lester, Karnezis, and Cornelius who could stake a claim for the forward role that Lisle might play with Merrett taking the ruck duties, and even the likes of Crisp and Yeo, who are also in the mid-sized group, who might force their way in ahead of Lisle on form, once again with Merrett taking second-ruck duties.

With that said, I am personally more a fan of the idea of fielding quality smalls and quality talls, rather than having too many mid-sized players. So for me, the idea of having Brown, Merrett and Lisle all up forward (with the latter two sharing second ruck duties), would work well with a cast of very good quality smalls at their feet (eg: Zorko, Green, McGrath, etc.).

WCE seem to have been able to make the Cox, Naitanui and Lynch combination work fairly effectively (with Lynch often seeming to be subbed-out), along with a number of other bigger forwards in the team, so I think it's a prospect worth considering.
 

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Really enjoyed reading the discussion on this thread - well done guys.

Here is my team:
B: Patfull-Maguire-Golby
HB: Adcock-Mckeever-Harwood
C: Handley-Rich-Redden
HF: Zorko-Brown-Green
F:Rockliff-Merrett-Banfield
Foll: Leuenberger-Black-Beams
Inter: Lester-Raines-Karnesis
Sub: McGrath
Emerg: Yeo-Polec-Cornelius

Hope Mckeever gets on the main list, looked a real polished defender in the 2's GF and another preseason working on skills - look out. I still think he can hold down a key defensive spot in the seniors and don't forget guys he can relief ruck.

Also have not lost faith in Banfield, needs to be match fit and hopefully confidence will come. Having said that I can understand why he would be potential trade bait
 
There are always quite a few surprises in the round 1 team, so you have to pick who might have a good pre-season who didn't play much this year, or who might have just played this year to get some experience. I've been thinking on it for a while, but reckon it'll be something similar to this (assuming we don't get Kurt):

B: Patfull - Merrett - Hanley​
HB: Adcock - Maguire - Golby​
C: Raines - Rich - Redden​
HF: Staker - Brown - Polec​
F: Bewick - Lisle - McGrath​
Foll: Leuenberger - Black - Zorko​
Inter: Rockliff - Beams - Polkinghorne​
Sub: Karnezis​
​
The only really questionable decisions in here are Karnezis, Polec, and Staker. I'd say the rest would probably feature in most teams. For the first two, I just think they've both shown more and more in terms of endurance in the reserves as the year's gone on. Another pre-season and they could be ready to cement a spot in the senior side.​
​
Staker is one who I'd mentally written off not too long ago. My thinking was that it would be too much for him to come back from, and that his body just wasn't up to it anymore. The recent discussions about Staker have changed my mind on this slightly, though. Obviously it will come down to how he goes on the track over the course of the pre season, but I get the feeling that he's in the club's calculations for round 1 next year, so my opinion on him has shifted a little.​
​
The biggest omission in my eyes is Lester. I think the spot I've given to Stakes would be between Lester and him, and I'm slightly favouring Staker at the moment. I reckon the club has plans to develop Lester in other areas that we haven't quite seen yet, and he might start in the reserves to do this.​

EDIT: A few changes made to the lineup​
​
 
My issue with your side PattyK is in the forward line. I would suggest that you have 5 non-chasers (players for whom defensive pressure is not a priority/strength in their game) and Ash, who isn't necessarily an effective "frontal pressure" player anyway. I think you need at least one and potentially two of Green, Bewick, Banfield or Zorko in that forward structure. And that means no Karnezis and/or no Staker IMO.
 
POBT said:
My issue with your side PattyK is in the forward line. I would suggest that you have 5 non-chasers (players for whom defensive pressure is not a priority/strength in their game) and Ash, who isn't necessarily an effective "frontal pressure" player anyway. I think you need at least one and potentially two of Green, Bewick, Banfield or Zorko in that forward structure. And that means no Karnezis and/or no Staker IMO.
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Yeah that's a fair point. I didn't quite look enough for balance in particular areas, just who would be on the park. Might edit it a little.

Grimreepah said:
Drummond and Hanley are the big omissions.
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Can't believe I forgot Hanley! As for Drummo, I'm uncertain on him right now.
 

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