List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency

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Or move up the board through a trade (which is where you generally look to fill your needs) to get the very best available talent in that draft and one that also happens to fit a need or two.

I'm not suggesting that we get pick one and then draft someone that we don't think is the best in the draft with that pick, or that we trade up to pick one and draft the one we consider to be best available, but who doesn't fill a structural need we have. I'm saying that we trade up to get the most elite talent that is available and one that also fits a structural need that we have.

I'm also not suggesting that we get someone at pick 10 if we don't think they are worth that pick. But if we do believe that Gardiner is worth that pick, I wouldn't want us to overlook him just because of a desire to bolster our midfield, because I would have thought we also needed to bolster our key defensive stocks going forward and they also generally take longer to develop, so that is even more of a reason to get them first.
Probably worth it, if he's 194, he's 6cm taller than Gwilt, 5cm taller than Fisher and 3cm taller than Simpkin.

Anyone think we should just get Hamish Shepheard as a last round pick. Better the devil you know and all that.
http://truezebras.net/2012/12/12/hamish-shepheard/

He's beefed up a bit since Freo had him.
 

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aussierulesrules

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If he has grown to 194cm already then there's a fair chance he's still growing, so he sounds like he could be well worth looking at, if he's as good as some say he is, but I think you're underselling Fisher a bit there. He's listed at 191cm, not 189cm, but that big article on him earlier in the year (where they talked about how he often gives away height when playing key defence) stated that he is 193cm and 95kg (which I'd suggest is spot on, as he looks more like 193cm to me than 191cm, out on the ground and I dare say they asked him exactly how tall he is when they interviewed him) so I think he's much closer to "proper key position height" than he often gets credit for.
 

Barrels

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Probably worth it, if he's 194, he's 6cm taller than Gwilt, 5cm taller than Fisher and 3cm taller than Simpkin.

Anyone think we should just get Hamish Shepheard as a last round pick. Better the devil you know and all that.
http://truezebras.net/2012/12/12/hamish-shepheard/

He's beefed up a bit since Freo had him.
As I've said ad nauseum, would certainly up our tough sticker quotient... And again, LOOK at that leap...



At 198cm and 90kg probably needs another 5-8kgs to really match up on the Clokes and Hawkins of this world, but by all accounts is a trier, aggressive and hates being beaten, and a top bloke to boot - and only 22. Yes please with a late pick.

Also would inject a bit more height into ARR's 2018 team:
Possible 2018 team, if we added Boyd, Gardiner and Tsitas with 1, 10 and 22:

B: Simpkin Gardiner Geary
HB: Roberton Shepheard Webster
C: Newnes Ross Wright
HF: Siposs Lee Markworth
F: White Boyd Saad
R: Hickey Armitage Steven
I: Tsitas Murdoch Saunders Minchington
E: Dunell Gwilt Pierce Stanley
 
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As I've said ad nauseum, would certainly up our tough sticker quotient... And again, LOOK at that leap...



At 198cm and 90kg probably needs another 5-8kgs to really match up on the Clokes and Hawkins of this world, but by all accounts is a trier, aggressive and hates being beaten, and a top bloke to boot - and only 22. Yes please with a late pick.

Also would inject a bit more height into ARR's 2018 team:
Shorter opponents need to be able to push tall forwards out of position. Someone like Shep could probably avoid a bit of the wrestling.
 
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I don't pay too much attention to overage players, so I honestly wouldn't have too much of an idea. You'd probably be better off asking the guys who watched his Zebs games, but I would think that most overage players (except for the outstanding prospects) stay outside the top 2 rounds.

Just on Langdon, tomorrow up on True Zebras we have a chat with Tom about his form this year, disappointment of not being drafted last year and what lays ahead and his ambitions on potentially being drafted this year. Must say for 19 year old has real mature head on his shoulders and you can tell his entire focus is on making it into AFL system.


"Seeing a few of my mates go to AFL clubs and get those opportunities it made me realise just how much I wanted it. At the end of the day not getting drafted forces you to have a strong hard look at your desire to play football at AFL level because if your answer isn’t a resounding yes then you’re wasting your own and other people’s time." Tom Langdon told True Zebras
 

Barrels

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I've come to the decision that, in my view,the way forward is not to get too caught up in wrangling for current player trades, cos we'll have to pay overs - and as a Manchester City fan, I'm sick of watching that happen - and drafting kids kids and more kids.

A perfect draft IMO would be, assuming six picks as a random guess:
1st Pick - Boyd, or class mid (Aish/Scharenburg/Kelly)
(Pick #10 - Class mid (Billings/Freeman/Dunstan)
2nd Pick - Slider class mid (Bontempelli/Dumont/Crouch)
3rd Pick - Midfield beast (Boag etc)
4th Pick - KPD (Tippett/Sully)
5th Pick - Other KPD (Shepheard etc)
6th Pick - Tom Curren upgrade

Obviously there's some re-jigging of the later picks if we managed to snag pick #10, but all in all that would net us a 10yr full forward, or at least two class midfielders, one 'beast', a ready-to-go mid in Curren and the two KPDs we so sorely need.

If next year's is the rumoured KPP draft, then load up on the mids and let HMAS Saints Flag 2018 off anchor... ;)
 
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Agreed, but it would still be handy. Cloke in particular likes to initiate contact, like Carey used to.
The trick for really good defenders seems to be to keep an eye on your opponent, but mainly to read the play and judge when and where the ball is coming. Smart forwards ( like Milne ) trick their opponents into chasing them to where the ball is not.

I always thought that Dawson was particularly bad at reading the play, but quick enough to get away with it.
 

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Let me just clarify - Crouch is by no means a classy mid. He is a very average kick of the football for a Top 10 prospect. Also, Billings at 10 would be a slider and he is a half-forward that can push up onto a wing. Playing midfield at APS /TAC level is very different (especially APS) and Billings tank needs quite a bit of work.

Where is Bontempelli predicted to go, Top 20? Rahul
He was a Top 15 prospect, but Lennon and a few others (Kolodjashnij, Taylor, Lennon) have jumped in front with strong Champs. He wouldn't be too much of a drop at 21, I would rather hope for Dumont/Dunstan/Crouch/Taylor to slide. He'd be around 15-25.
 

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Where is Bontempelli predicted to go, Top 20?
Knightmare is now talking Bontompelli up as someone he would be happy to take as high as pick 2, after another BOG performance on the weekend and due to the fact he is still so raw and looks to still be growing and looking like being such a fantastic size for the midfield, with heaps of class and athleticism to go with it.

If he has a strong finish to the season I wouldn't be at all surprised if he were this year's version of Jackson Macrae, who last year came from way back to end up going at 6. Pretty similar types (tall, classy, raw, "lefties"), with Bontompelli being that inch or so taller already and probably better athletically and possibly more likely to succeed in the guts, though.

If we got him with our 2nd rounder I'd be over the moon, but I think that chance of that happening is very remote, as a club will likely take a punt on him earlier than that purely on potential upside, even if he doesn't play another game for the rest of the year to increase his stocks further. His genes will also make him very attractive to clubs, IMO.


But who I'd be taking. I've been a big Nathan Freeman fan to this point with his explosive pace, footskills and ability to win his own footy but I have to say after last weekend if he keeps performing the way he is and continues his progress Marcus Bontempelli is my man and I'd go as far as saying he is a worthy pick 2 as a guy with the potential to become the best in the draft.

Bontempelli has the versatility to play wherever you need him but he's a freakishly athletic tall at 191cm but is looking best suited as an inside midfielder. Not what Dogs fans want to hear but when you've got a top selection you want Chris Judd, not Graham Polak so you take the best guy available early draft regardless of position every time and look to fill your needs later. And when you have a 191cm guy who has a late year birthday, is still growing, improving like crazy and is good for 30 disposals a game in the TAC and can go off for 50 disposals and 10 goals in a school footy game that's usually a pretty good indication that the fella can not only play good footy but absolutely out and out dominate games.

I hope he does have a really strong finish to the season and does so playing in the guts, because if he does then he could come into our calculations and be that "big bodied inside mid" that we've been hoping to get, but one that also happens to have loads of class and athleticism and a good left foot on him to boot.
 

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It would not surprise me to see Mayes (excluding O'Meara who is a freak) the best player from last years draft and has played most of his footy as a half forward. I believe Billings is at a similar talent to Mayes, both elite skills and decision makers. Mayes has an endurance advantage over Billings so he has the ability to transition to the midfield quicker. Billings will need a pre season or two longer than Mayes to build up his fitness but I still see him becoming a midfielder and with that major asset of being able to go forward and become a serious threat like Jimmy Bartel.

I personally have Billings as having as high a ceiling as anyone in the draft. It's the uncertainty that he doesn't transition to the midfield that has him on the fringe of being a top 5 selection and not higher. I would not be upset if we selected him at pick 4. If we have pick 3 or lower than Boyd, Aish and Sharenberg for me.
 

aussierulesrules

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It would not surprise me to see Mayes (excluding O'Meara who is a freak) the best player from last years draft and has played most of his footy as a half forward. I believe Billings is at a similar talent to Mayes, both elite skills and decision makers. Mayes has an endurance advantage over Billings so he has the ability to transition to the midfield quicker. Billings will need a pre season or two longer than Mayes to build up his fitness but I still see him becoming a midfielder and with that major asset of being able to go forward and become a serious threat like Jimmy Bartel.

I personally have Billings as having as high a ceiling as anyone in the draft. It's the uncertainty that he doesn't transition to the midfield that has him on the fringe of being a top 5 selection and not higher. I would not be upset if we selected him at pick 4.
Agree with all that. If we are one of the clubs that apparently see Billings as a "mid" then I'd have him as high as 3 on my wishlist. He'd be like a Dal Santo who is able to push forward and kick multiple goals. When was the last time we had a genuine "goalkicking mid"? Maybe Nicky Winmar and Joel Smith (briefly)?
 

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Wallet was just on SEN, said we shouldn't get Boyd but should get mids and throw the bank at mature KPD's.
So should we just do the opposite?
Boyd it is, thanks Plough. :thumbsu:

If our list management was all about next year then we should definitely do what he is suggesting, but hopefully we are looking more at the big picture and longer term than that.
 

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Let me just clarify - Crouch is by no means a classy mid. He is a very average kick of the football for a Top 10 prospect.
Class, IMO isn't exclusively the domain of the silky-skilled, but even so Crouch is simply too good to still be around at our third pick. Hence his presence in that group.
 
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Wallet was just on SEN, said we shouldn't get Boyd but should get mids and throw the bank at mature KPD's.
So should we just do the opposite?
I tend to agree with him. I recall a time past where StKilda had by far the best full forward, but it still didn't get us anywhere.
 

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I like Honeychurch. Kids got True Grit! Must of been picked on a lot in school. When he grows up he's gona look like Jeff Bridges. Any chance he'll be there for our 2nd or even 3rd pick?
2nd, yes he will be available and I think we'll be a bit crazy to not consider him. His attack on the footy is insane. 3rd rounder availability is looking decreasing likely each and every second. Vic Metro MVPs are Top 2 round quality.
 
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Siposs, Ross, Hayes, Markworth, Ray, Dempster, GIlbert , Webster, Murdoch, Dunell, Shenton 186+ = 11
Jones, Dennis-Lane, Geary, Newnes, Armitage, Dal Santo, Milera, Wright 181-185 = 8
Steven, Montagna, Schnieder, Ledger, Saad, Saunders, Milne, Minchington, Curren 180 or less. =9

I was thinking we were getting a bit short , but the figures say we are reasonably balanced.
Though I'd still be a bit concerned if our on ballers ended up being Steven, Ledger, Curren, and Honeychurch.
 

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One of the mock drafts I read said that Gardiner has already grown to 194cm. If that is true then I would be very, very open to drafting him at pick 10, if we were able to extract that from GWS.

Now that we're well out of contention for the time being, I think we need to be looking more long term and building ourselves a premiership capable list, rather than looking simply at our most immediate deficiencies, so while it would be nice to have someone really good for FB/CHB for next year, I'd rather look more at the big picture and get someone that we see as being outstanding in that role over the next 10-12 years, even if he's not really ready to play the role to a high level for a couple of years.

As we've found in the past couple of years, good "KPD's" don't grow on trees, so if we have the chance to get one who is of very high quality and possibly the next James Frawley or Daniel Talia (who were selected at picks 12 and 13 in uncompromised drafts- the equivalent of picks 10 and 11 this year, with Hogan and Martin not in the draft) then I would think long and hard before passing that opportunity up (and probably wouldn't pass it up, as we've seen how hard it is to get them).

Boyd would most likely compliment Tom Lee and Spencer White perfectly, so if he was still available at 3 in your mock then we would snap him up in a big hurry and build our team for the next 10-12 years around him, but otherwise we need to stock up on midfield talent.

Best available "mid" is the way we would go, but preferably they would be able to win plenty of their own ball and also use it well. As far as needs go, we have a plethora of half back flank options, so if you see Scharanberg playing that role long term, he would be more of a luxury for us, rather than a "need", IMO. About the only structural benefit of us selecting him (if he is going to play HB long term) would be the fact that it would free up one of Wright, Murdoch and Webster to possibly play in the midfield, rather than down back, but it would all depend on what role you see him playing long term.
Thanks for the reply, I have Boyd going at number 1 and Aish at 2. Great insight. The consensus at the moment for Pick 3 is either Scharenburg or Kelly, and after hearing this I think you are more of a chance to pick up the latter in that case :thumbsu:
 
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