List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,022
Likes
21,377
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
If you have a healthy list with a healthy spread of players age, you only need to find 2 good recruits most years, and a third sometimes.

StKilda's poor history pre-dates Lyon, and would be worse if we hadn't picked up smokeys like Milne, Gwilt, and Fisher.
Including players at the level of McQualter and Raph, and Leigh Fisher and Goose. The numbers include 5 Rookies.

2000 , 3
2001 , 5 :eek:
2002 , 2
2003 , 2
2004 , 2
2005 , 1
2006 , 3
2007, 2
2008 , maximum 2
2009, 0
2010, maximum 4

So from 2000 to 2007 we were averaging 2.5 / year
from 2002 to 2010 we have averaged a maximum of 1.7 /year
Drafting mature age players only brings forward a future problem.
In 2000 we traded a first round pick for a player who was good for 4 seasons, and another early pick for a player who was good for 7 seasons


In 2001 we traded a first round pick (James Kelly pick ) for a guy who went home to mummy after 3 seasons, leaving us with a player we had no desire for.

In 2002 we traded a first and 2nd round pick for a guy who would clog the list with 8 games in four years.

We kept our pick in 2003, and Raph was a reasonable choice, it would have actually been a good time to trade.

2004, Ditto 2003, but McQualter
2005 Traded our first pick for a guy who went on to play one game
2006 Grabbed Armo
2007 Grabbed McEvoy
2008 Got Lynch who was unsuccessful, but we recovered a 2nd rounder.
2009 Arrrrrrrgggggggggg ( another first rounder gone )
2010 Got another W.A. mommy's boy.

This seems to indicate DO NOT TRADE THE BLOODY FIRST ROUNDER UNLESS YOU CAN GET FRASER GEHRIG.
Even with Gehrig, his retirement ended up happening at the worst possible time.

Even Cripps, McQualter, and Raph were not the total losses some of these bigshot trades ended up as.
6 big trades. 1 good. 2 cut short 3 disasters
10 first round drafts, 3 really good, 3 good, 2 ordinary . 2 left of their own accord but are still playing ( different issue ).

This is why Watters has needed to hedge his bets, otherwise we will run out of players.
Downgrading our draft pick in 2011, still gave us Ross, but we have a chance with Milera and Saad.
Watters/Pelchin/Trout are giving us multiple chances.
All of Lee/Wright/White/Hickey will not fail.

If we can get all this back on track, then all we need to do is find 2 to 3 good players a year.
Look at Melbourne, how many good players have they lost from their list through premature retirement and disgruntled players. Was it worth it for a couple of early picks? How will they replace them all?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

tbarker

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Posts
1,674
Likes
1,993
AFL Club
St Kilda
Dont know much about him. Seems a good size but. Appears to play KPD for nthrn blues. Who are going ok. May be worth a look as backup.

Personally prefer other cheap options like Luke Delaney (nth) or Ben Griffiths (rich). Both of which are a bit taller.

If it is the older Delaney the forget it - no good. The younger Delaney is a very good prospect but from memory north signed him up last year?? I know they rate him as a future player so unlikely that they will part with him
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
If it is the older Delaney the forget it - no good. The younger Delaney is a very good prospect but from memory north signed him up last year?? I know they rate him as a future player so unlikely that they will part with him
Older Delaney kicking is a worry but does a reasonable shut down job.. Watch a few of his games last year shit on Hawkins until near the end of the match when Hawkins kicked a few.

Will only be 24 this year as well, (24th of June). So still young
 

tbarker

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Posts
1,674
Likes
1,993
AFL Club
St Kilda
If you have a healthy list with a healthy spread of players age, you only need to find 2 good recruits most years, and a third sometimes.

StKilda's poor history pre-dates Lyon, and would be worse if we hadn't picked up smokeys like Milne, Gwilt, and Fisher.
Including players at the level of McQualter and Raph, and Leigh Fisher and Goose. The numbers include 5 Rookies.

2000 , 3
2001 , 5 :eek:
2002 , 2
2003 , 2
2004 , 2
2005 , 1
2006 , 3
2007, 2
2008 , maximum 2
2009, 0
2010, maximum 4

So from 2000 to 2007 we were averaging 2.5 / year
from 2002 to 2010 we have averaged a maximum of 1.7 /year
Drafting mature age players only brings forward a future problem.
In 2000 we traded a first round pick for a player who was good for 4 seasons, and another early pick for a player who was good for 7 seasons


In 2001 we traded a first round pick (James Kelly pick ) for a guy who went home to mummy after 3 seasons, leaving us with a player we had no desire for.

In 2002 we traded a first and 2nd round pick for a guy who would clog the list with 8 games in four years.

We kept our pick in 2003, and Raph was a reasonable choice, it would have actually been a good time to trade.

2004, Ditto 2003, but McQualter
2005 Traded our first pick for a guy who went on to play one game
2006 Grabbed Armo
2007 Grabbed McEvoy
2008 Got Lynch who was unsuccessful, but we recovered a 2nd rounder.
2009 Arrrrrrrgggggggggg ( another first rounder gone )
2010 Got another W.A. mommy's boy.

This seems to indicate DO NOT TRADE THE BLOODY FIRST ROUNDER UNLESS YOU CAN GET FRASER GEHRIG.
Even with Gehrig, his retirement ended up happening at the worst possible time.

Even Cripps, McQualter, and Raph were not the total losses some of these bigshot trades ended up as.
6 big trades. 1 good. 2 cut short 3 disasters
10 first round drafts, 3 really good, 3 good, 2 ordinary . 2 left of their own accord but are still playing ( different issue ).

This is why Watters has needed to hedge his bets, otherwise we will run out of players.
Downgrading our draft pick in 2011, still gave us Ross, but we have a chance with Milera and Saad.
Watters/Pelchin/Trout are giving us multiple chances.
All of Lee/Wright/White/Hickey will not fail.

If we can get all this back on track, then all we need to do is find 2 to 3 good players a year.
Look at Melbourne, how many good players have they lost from their list through premature retirement and disgruntled players. Was it worth it for a couple of early picks? How will they replace them all?

Great stuff.
Cadyn Beatham was a gun but his sister (whom he is very close to) was diagnosed with a terrible disease the year he was drafted and it affecting him and his family greatly. Then he got really ill and lost about 10kgs. The club didn't have the resources to support blokes like that so he basically never got back on the horse. He was a gun junior and should have made it. Big, fast and with a booming kick. Bit of a lad but he was a mate of Rooeys and liked by the players. Rooey hooked Beetham up with the Southport Sharks for a few seasons but it didn't work out.

2000 - the best draft in our history.

2001 the next best draft in our history if not for Ross Lyon killing them all and GT killing Clarke's body by playing him with a crook back.

2002 - oh dear. Barry Brooks. Potentially the worst stuff up in our history. Picks 6 and 31 for that bloke.:eek: Look at who we could have taken with picks #6 and #31 in the 2002 draft.

2003 - Raph Clarke was a gun junior and expected to go in the first round or early second so I have no problem with his selection. I do believe however that they fell in love with the concept of having the 2 Clarke boys on the list. If he had some awareness then he might have been a Roberton because Clarke was one of the best readers of the ball that I can remember. Gutsy also. He just stuffed up when he got it!! We also got Guerra and Gram that year. I miss Guerra off half back....:mad:

2004 - the weakest draft in history. The top 5 were all guns and apart from Tampbling - they all still are guns. We should have traded the house for better players but instead we settled for Fiona from Richmond (losing Heath Black) and picked McQualter at 16 :eek: McQualter was never going to make it but for some reason we had a fascination with slow and chubby midfielders (cue McGough, Powell et al).

2005 draft - not much depth so trading pick 17 was ok - the problem is we got Fergus Watts - the iceberg :eek:

2006 / 2007 - pass mark. Some great - some average but overall a win.

2008 - The Lynch decision was waxing with Stu Loewe who was Lynch's junior coach. He was worth a second rounder - full stop. Ray for pick 31 was overs. the rest were a disaster. Overall - a disaster.

2009 and 2010 - forgive me while I go and curl up into the foetal position and cry.
 

tbarker

Club Legend
Joined
Oct 20, 2012
Posts
1,674
Likes
1,993
AFL Club
St Kilda
Older Delaney kicking is a worry but does a reasonable shut down job.. Watch a few of his games last year shit on Hawkins until near the end of the match when Hawkins kicked a few.

Will only be 24 this year as well, (24th of June). So still young

Yeah - fair point. He was ok in that match. Hasn't impressed me otherwise and a bit of a whipping boy for my Nth mates.
 

Sheeza69

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Posts
2,689
Likes
2,508
Location
East Bentleigh
AFL Club
St Kilda
Dont know much about him. Seems a good size but. Appears to play KPD for nthrn blues. Who are going ok. May be worth a look as backup.

Personally prefer other cheap options like Luke Delaney (nth) or Ben Griffiths (rich). Both of which are a bit taller.
Griffiths due to his versatility & ability, will be our gain & the Tigers loss..
At 200cm & 104kgs he's a big boy with a booming kick..!!
The boy can play & is only 21, took on the league's best last year & held his own..
Also can take a big mark, is a Victorian..what more do we want..??
 

Barrels

Gresh 3:16
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Posts
16,582
Likes
38,563
Location
The Wild Northwest
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Browns, Man City & Indians
Dont know much about him. Seems a good size but. Appears to play KPD for nthrn blues. Who are going ok. May be worth a look as backup.

Personally prefer other cheap options like Luke Delaney (nth) or Ben Griffiths (rich). Both of which are a bit taller.
Griffiths could be anything if he gets his body right, but therein lies the rub, it's a gamble. BOTH Delaneys are listed at 194m, and seeing as Watson is 195cm, HE's taller (heavier too :D)
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
Griffiths due to his versatility & ability, will be our gain & the Tigers loss..
At 200cm & 104kgs he's a big boy with a booming kick..!!
The boy can play & is only 21, took on the league's best last year & held his own..
Also can take a big mark, is a Victorian..what more do we want..??
Many Richmond fans don't rate him as a defender, All of them pretty much rate him as a forward.
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Posts
11,366
Likes
4,931
Location
Inside The Circle Of Zen
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Man Utd
Picks 12, 13, 37, 57, 47, 46 (But once Adelaide withdrew picks when up spot)

So:
12: Kristian Jaksch
13: Jesse Lonergan
36: Tanner Smith
55: Tim Sumner
45: Brant College
46: Tim Membrey
They don't look right mate! Pretty sure we wouldn't have been handed that many picks inside 55 to begin with! I meant before any trading took place!
 

Sheeza69

Club Legend
Joined
Feb 26, 2012
Posts
2,689
Likes
2,508
Location
East Bentleigh
AFL Club
St Kilda
If you have a healthy list with a healthy spread of players age, you only need to find 2 good recruits most years, and a third sometimes.

StKilda's poor history pre-dates Lyon, and would be worse if we hadn't picked up smokeys like Milne, Gwilt, and Fisher.
Including players at the level of McQualter and Raph, and Leigh Fisher and Goose. The numbers include 5 Rookies.

2000 , 3
2001 , 5 :eek:
2002 , 2
2003 , 2
2004 , 2
2005 , 1
2006 , 3
2007, 2
2008 , maximum 2
2009, 0
2010, maximum 4

So from 2000 to 2007 we were averaging 2.5 / year
from 2002 to 2010 we have averaged a maximum of 1.7 /year
Drafting mature age players only brings forward a future problem.
In 2000 we traded a first round pick for a player who was good for 4 seasons, and another early pick for a player who was good for 7 seasons


In 2001 we traded a first round pick (James Kelly pick ) for a guy who went home to mummy after 3 seasons, leaving us with a player we had no desire for.

In 2002 we traded a first and 2nd round pick for a guy who would clog the list with 8 games in four years.

We kept our pick in 2003, and Raph was a reasonable choice, it would have actually been a good time to trade.

2004, Ditto 2003, but McQualter
2005 Traded our first pick for a guy who went on to play one game
2006 Grabbed Armo
2007 Grabbed McEvoy
2008 Got Lynch who was unsuccessful, but we recovered a 2nd rounder.
2009 Arrrrrrrgggggggggg ( another first rounder gone )
2010 Got another W.A. mommy's boy.

This seems to indicate DO NOT TRADE THE BLOODY FIRST ROUNDER UNLESS YOU CAN GET FRASER GEHRIG.
Even with Gehrig, his retirement ended up happening at the worst possible time.

Even Cripps, McQualter, and Raph were not the total losses some of these bigshot trades ended up as.
6 big trades. 1 good. 2 cut short 3 disasters
10 first round drafts, 3 really good, 3 good, 2 ordinary . 2 left of their own accord but are still playing ( different issue ).

This is why Watters has needed to hedge his bets, otherwise we will run out of players.
Downgrading our draft pick in 2011, still gave us Ross, but we have a chance with Milera and Saad.
Watters/Pelchin/Trout are giving us multiple chances.
All of Lee/Wright/White/Hickey will not fail.

If we can get all this back on track, then all we need to do is find 2 to 3 good players a year.
Look at Melbourne, how many good players have they lost from their list through premature retirement and disgruntled players. Was it worth it for a couple of early picks? How will they replace them all?
That was an informative post, & very much on the money..

Though if we are to chase real talent like Adams, it's likely one of our favourites will need to be traded..!!
 

Barrels

Gresh 3:16
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Posts
16,582
Likes
38,563
Location
The Wild Northwest
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Browns, Man City & Indians
Do you just look at players Height and Weight? Or look and take notice of the way they play as well?
Settle down sport. Just responding to the height issue.

Personally haven't seen much of any of them, but the Delaneys the most of the lot. I wasn't massively impressed, but if the price was right I'd jump at them
 
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Posts
10,680
Likes
7,722
AFL Club
St Kilda
Settle down sport. Just responding to the height issue.

Personally haven't seen much of any of them, but the Delaneys the most of he lot. I wasn't massively impressed, but if the price was right I'd jump at them
I didn't mean anything by that, Just asking if you have seen them play that is all..

Only ones i'd probably look at who are out of contract would be Nathan and Mitch Brown, Maybe Luke Delaney, Ben Griffiths. (May have missed someone decent).
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,022
Likes
21,377
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
That was an informative post, & very much on the money..

Though if we are to chase real talent like Adams, it's likely one of our favourites will need to be traded..!!
I don't mind that, because we aren't stealing from the future. We still get our draft picks. Getting a young bloke like Adams isn't too much of a top up anyway. But in trading "favorites" it shouldn't leave the team dysfunctional ( if it isn't already ).
 

Barrels

Gresh 3:16
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Posts
16,582
Likes
38,563
Location
The Wild Northwest
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Browns, Man City & Indians
I didn't mean anything by that, Just asking if you have seen them play that is all..

Only ones i'd probably look at who are out of contract would be Nathan and Mitch Brown, Maybe Luke Delaney, Ben Griffiths. (May have missed someone decent).
No dramas ;)

I actually don't rate Mitch Brown. Would throw the kitchen sink at his brother
 

aussierulesrules

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Posts
26,980
Likes
45,801
Location
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Oh. Take a look here you'll be able to work it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_AFL_Draft
We originally had picks 12, 13, 37 (which became 36), 57 (which became 55) and 75, once we received our BJ compo (13).

We then traded pick 12 to get Lee, the pick that became 24, and pick 43 (which became 46, once all the free agency compo's and Adelaide losing two of their picks were taken into account).

Then we traded picks 13, 37 and 57 for Hickey and picks that became 25 and 47.

We then traded 47 for TDL and 46 and Cripps for 40 and 43.

If we'd done no trading, we could have gotten Jacksch (although I think we would have gotten Corr, we were apparently not keen on Jacksch, but rated Corr), Lonergan, Tanner Smith (although if we'd grabbed Corr we probably would have still grabbed Murdoch, not Smith), Tim Sumner and Lewis Pierce, but instead we ended up with:

Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Dennis Lane and Pierce.

In about 4-5 years we'll be able to say with confidence whether we played our cards well or not.
 
Joined
May 13, 2013
Posts
3
Likes
0
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Hartung has been very impressive AGAIN for the Stingrays. He's had a terrific year and it seems like he's carrying his side.
Having watched the Stingrays all year I disagree that Hartung is carrying the side. Whilst he's been very impressive and in great form I think there are others in that team that have consistently stood up. In my opinion it's their two defenders - the very underrated captain Nathan Foote and Zac Jones - who have both been consistant performers each week. Jones plays very attacking football and Foote consistantly wins the hard ball & extracts it out to his team mates. Foote sets up plenty of attacking plays with his speed and ball use. Hartung might look impressive since his return, but I am also impressed with others in that team.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Posts
36,022
Likes
21,377
Location
Narre Warren North
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
.
They don't look right mate! Pretty sure we wouldn't have been handed that many picks inside 55 to begin with! I meant before any trading took place!
All the free agency moves shuffled the draft around so and Adelaide gave up picks so we would have originally had:

12: Kristian Jaksch
13: Jesse Lonergan
36: Tanner Smith
55: Tim Sumner
75: Lewis Pierce

then we traded for Lee +24 +43 leaving us with:
13, 24, 36, 43, 55 , 75

then we got Hickey +25 +47 , giving up 13, 36, and 55
So 24, 25, 43, 47, 75

Trent Dennis Lane for 47
24, 25, 43, 75

Then the trade Cripps + 47 for 40 and 44.
gave us 24, 25, 40, 43, 75

So from 2 first round picks and a second and a third, we got 3 second round picks , and a third and 3 players and lost one player.

.I think!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom