List Mgmt. 2013 Trading & Free Agency

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Peter J

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If were able to get what's required to get Gorringe (2nd round pick?), where do people think that would leave Johnston. Based on today Gorringe (I know 1 game) he would be in our team round one. If everyone's fit that would mean the forward line would be Tex, Jenkins and Gorringe, all of whom can get up the ground, leaving Johnston in our reserves side. He's currency with us in this situation would likely peak at the end of this season, where teams need a KPF.

possible trades:

Brisbane: need a forward target so we straight swap him for Polec (if he wants to come) or a second round pick.

Bulldogs: second/ early third, could get us polec or gorringe in a three way trade.

Saints : see bulldogs

If Hendo does ask to go back to Victoria (I'd perfer him to stay, but currency would pretty high at the moment) Then dream senario (about as likely as Trigg winning back the supporters) would be the following trade with Saints.

Saints get Henderson and Johnston for pick 3
They both fit the age group that saints lack. Hendo takes over from Fischer who might only have 1 or 2 years left and Johnston becomes their second tall forward and we pick up Aish. Bare in mind they traded pick 12 for Tom Lee. We could throw in Mckernan as extra or a third round pick or decide to keep him as coverage.
They re not trading Johnston

Take a look at Hawthorns structure. Seems to work ok for them
 

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jumboprince

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Saints get Henderson and Johnston for pick 3
They both fit the age group that saints lack. Hendo takes over from Fischer who might only have 1 or 2 years left and Johnston becomes their second tall forward and we pick up Aish. Bare in mind they traded pick 12 for Tom Lee. We could throw in Mckernan as extra or a third round pick or decide to keep him as coverage.
I can understand where they both fit in to the Saints line up, if Johnston had played say 15-18 games this year and had 40-50 goals, there would be a very outside chance that deal might work, as it is though we would need to give them a first round pick to get anywhere near being fair for both sides
 

BigLefty

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If were able to get what's required to get Gorringe (2nd round pick?), where do people think that would leave Johnston.
I reckon if we pick up Gorringe it's Jenkins that's under pressure, not LJ. That's not to say he'd automatic take Jenkins spot, but it would certainly make the selectors question whether we need 3 ruckman in the side.

Of course we could play Jenkins as a permanent forward, but I dunno if he'd keep his spot every week if we have a full squad to choose from.

It could allow us to trial him on defence maybe where many have thought he'd be well suited.
 

Crowked

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I reckon if we pick up Gorringe it's Jenkins that's under pressure, not LJ. That's not to say he'd automatic take Jenkins spot, but it would certainly make the selectors question whether we need 3 ruckman in the side.

Of course we could play Jenkins as a permanent forward, but I dunno if he'd keep his spot every week if we have a full squad to choose from.

It could allow us to trial him on defence maybe where many have thought he'd be well suited.
Yes, a permanent defender perhaps. Pretty mobile for a big guy. Maybe play like Pitman did as a defender on the bigger guys.
 

King Elvis

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I can understand where they both fit in to the Saints line up, if Johnston had played say 15-18 games this year and had 40-50 goals, there would be a very outside chance that deal might work, as it is though we would need to give them a first round pick to get anywhere near being fair for both sides
Hendo and LJ aren't going to get you a pick in the top 10. Hendo might get one in the 15-20 range if we're lucky, but LJ doesn't make that a top #10; someone like Dougy might.

Edit - which is basically what you've already said :thumbsu:

Also agree that JJ would be displaced by Gorringe, not LJ.
 
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if the rumors are true then Hendo doesn't want to leave the club. He needs to get back to his family.
Like Boak?

All interstate players could come up with valid reasons they 'need' to go home. But only some players act on these reasons. The vast majority deal with them and work out a way to manage because they want to stay at the club they're at. The question you're ignoring is why are we different?

Listing GC and GWS ruins your argument because they are shiny and new and throwing cash around. Can't even take the discussion seriously if you put them up as "why don't people leave these clubs".
They're not new anymore. They are just clubs whose players are being targeted, the same as ours and every other clubs' have been.

The Bock and Davis situation, everyone cries out "oh why us, people hate the club and want to leave". Bullshit. Has anyone stopped to think that maybe we got hit because we produce good defenders? We made ourselves a target to raid by producing good players. And then they got big cash bonuses. Anyway, Bock probably didn't mind getting out because after the handbag incident some people found him on the nose and he wanted a fresh start.
No, because other clubs were more successful than us.

If we're the club churning out all the gun players and that's the reason we got targeted, then where was the success when we had all those awesome players?

I can see the difference between the two, but you can't call to screw loyal players around then get all haemorroidy about players requesting a trade.
Why not? Of course you can.

This is exactly what the good clubs do. Keep the players they really want and initiate trades for players who don't fall into this category to make their club better.

Anyway other clubs have players go all the time. Pearce got sick of Port and took his FA chance and they chose not to retain him. Goddard left the Saints for better opportunity at a premiership(..... well that worked out for him....) Wellingham pissed off from the Pies back to WA. People leave clubs all the time and it is highly precious of us to say "we've been stung".
I bet Collingwood shed a tear about that one. Over Dawes too. All their best players signed up to long term deals plus two first rounders later...

How are St Kilda going? Pretty well? Club run professionally? Well structured and planned? On the up?

And we're on a par with them? That's good news.

If Hendo is upfront about his reasons and allows the club to make a proper trade, why should it matter? It's only when the club gets screwed over that its a concern. What if we can improve the team? Hendo's form of late has to have improved his trade currency remarkable. I can't see why we couldn't do a deal that works in our favour.

You keep saying "repeadtedly". But in reality Gunston and Tippett are the ones that "wanted out" as it were. Maric wanted opportunity and had nothing to do with hating the club. Bock and Davis got large cash bonuses. So I fail to see the players that hate the club that want out except the two aschlocks who put themselves before the club.
And don't come back and say Hudson... surely that was so far in the past that it hardly relates to the club as it is today.
Look, this is getting beyond pathetic.

Seriously, for the last time: You cannot throw around CASH BONUSES as the reason those players left. These were not magical Crows Dollars that only were available to tempt our players. Every single other club in the competition had to ward off the advances of the two new clubs. Some succeeded, some FAILED. And that's it. All the good clubs who emerged relatively unscathed from these raids had exactly the same circumstances to contend with as we did.

It's been months and months of explaining this to you (and others) and it seems there is still no progress. Or you'll acknowledge it but then try to add an Aww Yeah But.

No. There is no but. This is beyond simple. If you can't grasp it after all this time then just shut your account down.

Multiple players who were best 22 (and even best dozen) chose to leave our club. None of those trades worked in a positive fashion for us because we have no control.

And saying it's "only" four or five is silly. That's almost a quarter of your team. And we're contending with clubs who would have lost zero over the same period and instead gained players.

Ok, trading a contracted Hendo might lead to a more favourable outcome. We'll see.
 

BigLefty

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Yes, a permanent defender perhaps. Pretty mobile for a big guy. Maybe play like Pitman did as a defender on the bigger guys.
except that he's quick. he'd have great closing speed and is pretty attacking so should provide some decent rebound.

I reckon he'd be Bock mk2.

right now though, we need him forward/ruck.

Get Gorringe and we have options.
 

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Mattrox

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You are really reaching. The only player that left that we got nothing for was Tippett.

In a trade players and picks move both ways. So you should not be down on numbers. We are not a quarter of a team short because of departures. We might have lost Gunston, but what did we end up with in the wash?

And I completely disagree with "what good teams do" you tack that on to your argument to make it sound good. What good teams do is look after their players. Nothing worse than players that are unsettled. They want out as soon as possible. Good teams trade players because the make them see it is in thier best interest for a trade or they'll end up as depth players. This way they are willing to be traded.

Give it time with GWS and Gold Coast. When list gets trimmed and cap pressure squeezes they will deal with losing players they want to keep. Hell I guess you could say it has started. GWS threw Neede in as steak knives in the Hombsch deal.

You clearly haven't paid attention to what happens when players are traded or clubs attempt to trade against their will.

Oh and Port let whazhizname go to the psd rather than be strong armed into a particular trade. All clubs lose players. We are smarting because of the defenders that were poached. Then Gunston thrown in. To top it off we have Tippett. To throw a circle around them and draw a conclusion is being a texan sharpshooter.
 

Peter J

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You are really reaching. The only player that left that we got nothing for was Tippett.

In a trade players and picks move both ways. So you should not be down on numbers. We are not a quarter of a team short because of departures. We might have lost Gunston, but what did we end up with in the wash?

And I completely disagree with "what good teams do" you tack that on to your argument to make it sound good. What good teams do is look after their players. Nothing worse than players that are unsettled. They want out as soon as possible. Good teams trade players because the make them see it is in thier best interest for a trade or they'll end up as depth players. This way they are willing to be traded.

Give it time with GWS and Gold Coast. When list gets trimmed and cap pressure squeezes they will deal with losing players they want to keep. Hell I guess you could say it has started. GWS threw Neede in as steak knives in the Hombsch deal.

You clearly haven't paid attention to what happens when players are traded or clubs attempt to trade against their will.

Oh and Port let whazhizname go to the psd rather than be strong armed into a particular trade. All clubs lose players. We are smarting because of the defenders that were poached. Then Gunston thrown in. To top it off we have Tippett. To throw a circle around them and draw a conclusion is being a texan sharpshooter.
Whilst its technically true we got something for the players that left , you have to see that in those scenarios we completely lose control and it becomes a buyers market.

Surely you can see that
 

The Big Sauce

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Not really. Martin wants money and we got that, what we don't have is the trade needed to get him

Trade needed vs FA is a big difference

But Martin is a player who is of an overwhelming higher class than Betts. If Richmond aren't willing to pay him then that probably indicates we shouldn't break the bank for Betts.
 

Team DJ

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Saints get Henderson and Johnston for pick 3
They both fit the age group that saints lack. Hendo takes over from Fischer who might only have 1 or 2 years left and Johnston becomes their second tall forward and we pick up Aish. Bare in mind they traded pick 12 for Tom Lee. We could throw in Mckernan as extra or a third round pick or decide to keep him as coverage.

LMFAO

Wayne's-World you thought the Menzel idea was bad.
This board has lost the plot.
 

Mattrox

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Whilst its technically true we got something for the players that left , you have to see that in those scenarios we completely lose control and it becomes a buyers market.

Surely you can see that
This is precisely why the should have reviewed processes and procedures. If Gunston were upfront with everything the club would have had time to wheel and deal. In the end we did ok, but that was despite Gunston.

The Tippett situation should have never happened. You don't offer to trade a player home at a later stage. You say, we are willing to pay you x dollars for y years. As soon as players start looking for extra money and asks the club to underwrite short falls, that is the moment the club turns around and says "no single player is bigger than the Team, we wsnt you to play with us this is the offer."

Then if the player doesn't come back to thr club in a reasonable time just say we will be looking to trade you.

Put the power of negotiation in the clubs hands not the player. If the club played a straight bat the Tippett fiasco doesn't occur. He might have been traded for unders but he would not have been able to act like a free agent.
 

1970crow

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beggars can't be choosers ......we hardly hold the high ground & we NEED TO GET NEW TALENT in

We're a slow team and people want to trade Henderson ......give me break :rolleyes:

Makes good sense ....trade out speed and retain slow :rolleyes:
but he'll be back in the magoos when reilly recovers from injury. can't leave that kind of experience and quality out of the side.
 
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