List Mgmt. 2013 Trading & Free Agency

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Rorys458

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The problem with Free Agency as i see it is that they only have one half of the equation in place. As it stands players are essentially acting as free agents wether or not they actually qualify or not. Players like Gunston, Tippet, etc decide they want to play for X club and their previous club have to make it happen or risk losing them for nothing in the PSD. On the other hand clubs have no power to move players to another club without the player agreeing to it. If you are going to have free agency then it needs to be off set by the clubs being able to trade players as they see fit unless that player has a no trade clause in their contract. The AFL want more player movement but it seems like only at the players discretion. I think if you had more player movement it would also stop a lot of this "homesickness" cop out players use, as it would be more accepted that until you are a free agent, you could be playing anywhere.
They should remove the pre season draft and make players go into the national draft. Also bring in rules about back ending salaries so that all payments have to be smoothed to some degree over the contract term.
 

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Tex Danger

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If this happens it effectively halves the deal for Buddy. Why would he do it, if the likelyhood is he wont get half of it. Lets face it, there is no way he is going to be playing still in 9 years, not even 7.

It wouldnt be structured that each season is equal value though

the last 3 years may be at like 700k and the years prior worth the most.

YOur right though, why would you sign a contract that nets you 8 million over 6 years with a guarantee of another 2 million over the next 3 years if you are still good enough to get a game. Much rather take 7.5 over 5 years at a different club then negotiate a contract as an old guy on his way out
 

The Sloane Ranger

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I'm
pretty sure if a player retires they are not entitled to be paid out their contract. They may negotiate a pay out but mostly only if they are tapped on the shoulder and asked to retire.

It would be if he gets to 32/33 and is no longer up to it but won't retire and they delist/force him to retire they would need to pay him out.

The contract no doubt has all these scenarios outlined.
Im pretty sure your wrong, just ask Michael Voss

otherwise the salary cap is open to total roting
 

Tex Danger

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They should remove the pre season draft and make players go into the national draft. Also bring in rules about back ending salaries so that all payments have to be smoothed to some degree over the contract term.

Agree with 1st part

the other part i cant see happening as it would be argued as the old restrain of trade card always pulled out. That limitation would restrict the potential offers players may recieve. eg a front loaded contract is worth more than one evenly spread as the cash in hand can be used for further earnings (interest or investment) and also a club who can offer someone an average of 500k over x years may only be able to offer that if they structure it a certain way and without the flexibiluty have to lower the offer to prevent a salary cap breach in one of the seasons.
 

Rorys458

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Agree with 1st part

the other part i cant see happening as it would be argued as the old restrain of trade card always pulled out. That limitation would restrict the potential offers players may recieve. eg a front loaded contract is worth more than one evenly spread as the cash in hand can be used for further earnings (interest or investment) and also a club who can offer someone an average of 500k over x years may only be able to offer that if they structure it a certain way and without the flexibiluty have to lower the offer to prevent a salary cap breach in one of the seasons.
I havn't really thought this through, but what about a virtual salary cap. The players can get the money in any way they like (eg all up front) but its counted for salary cap purposes as smoothed over the term of the contract. Clubs would really need to manage their list and expenditures well. Maybe too complex.
 

Tex Danger

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Im pretty sure your wrong, just ask Michael Voss

otherwise the salary cap is open to total roting

In some cases they would which is why I said they may sometimes negotiate a payout. This may be if the retirement is a mutual agreement or the club has told the player to do so but rather than delisting they "retire" for the sake of public appearances.

Not sure what Voss has to do with it? Did he retire mid contract and take all their money as a player? If so I would dare say the retirement was not all his decision and the payout was to help him agree to what the club wanted.

As a coach he was sacked so would have got a payout. Sacked and retired are quite different
 

weneverland

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You wanted them to offer buddy a $10 million 9 year contract? o_O
Swans have shown that they are no mugs when it comes to running a football club. Time will tell whether this was a disaster for the club or a master stroke. Although this offer looks amazing, as I alluded previously, it may feasible. Buddy may not play all of those nine years but he could contribute in other areas. The contract may be back ended giving the Swans plenty of time to make room and the salary cap is bound to grow with time.

Just imagine Buddy being the face of the crows, every kid in SA would want to follow us. If the Swans get 9 years out of Buddy as a player, coach or marketer allong with a couple of premierships then it would have been money well spent.
 

jenny61_99

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Swans have shown that they are no mugs when it comes to running a football club. Time will tell whether this was a disaster for the club or a master stroke. Although this offer looks amazing, as I alluded previously, it may feasible. Buddy may not play all of those nine years but he could contribute in other areas. The contract may be back ended giving the Swans plenty of time to make room and the salary cap is bound to grow with time.

Just imagine Buddy being the face of the crows, every kid in SA would want to follow us. If the Swans get 9 years out of Buddy as a player, coach or marketer allong with a couple of premierships then it would have been money well spent.
If he can keep his nose clean (literally and figuratively) in party Central Sydney for 9 years, I'll be amazed.
 

DJ75

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I suspect the deal is with Sydney the football club. That way they guarantee he gets paid the money on offer wether he is playing or not.
In effect they backload his deal so that they end up paying him maximum dollars when he is working for the club and not as a player, hence no issue with TPP.
Seems very creative and dodgy but I suspect no rule against it.
The revelation of third party payments should fire the AFL up, but won't. Sydney aren't Adelaide.
This kind of creative deal is an extreme extension of the playing/coaching deal I proposed for Chapman.
The real question is who the hell is running our club? Are they that stupid they can't think of creative deals like this?
 

Wilko91

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In some cases they would which is why I said they may sometimes negotiate a payout. This may be if the retirement is a mutual agreement or the club has told the player to do so but rather than delisting they "retire" for the sake of public appearances.

Not sure what Voss has to do with it? Did he retire mid contract and take all their money as a player? If so I would dare say the retirement was not all his decision and the payout was to help him agree to what the club wanted.

As a coach he was sacked so would have got a payout. Sacked and retired are quite different
Voss had a back ended contract with $1M of it loaded into his final year of playing. He retired prior to that final year, but Brisbane still had to pay it or count it in their salary cap.
 

Cap

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I suspect the deal is with Sydney the football club. That way they guarantee he gets paid the money on offer wether he is playing or not.
In effect they backload his deal so that they end up paying him maximum dollars when he is working for the club and not as a player, hence no issue with TPP.
Seems very creative and dodgy but I suspect no rule against it.
The revelation of third party payments should fire the AFL up, but won't. Sydney aren't Adelaide.
This kind of creative deal is an extreme extension of the playing/coaching deal I proposed for Chapman.
The real question is who the hell is running our club? Are they that stupid they can't think of creative deals like this?
err they did....
 

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Tex Danger

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I havn't really thought this through, but what about a virtual salary cap. The players can get the money in any way they like (eg all up front) but its counted for salary cap purposes as smoothed over the term of the contract. Clubs would really need to manage their list and expenditures well. Maybe too complex.
That could work I guess

However it would only help players NOT get to their desired destination (ie make it harder to use the PSD to get whre they want by structuring their pay demands), which would be good for clubs and fans but the ALFPA probably has too much power to let it happen
 

spexau

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Who's to say we haven't had some successful "creative" contracts in the past or currently in place? It's not as if that information will EVER be released to the public. I mean we did something "creative" with Tippett and look what happened there.
 

Tex Danger

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Voss had a back ended contract with $1M of it loaded into his final year of playing. He retired prior to that final year, but Brisbane still had to pay it or count it in their salary cap.
Well thats where I say the contract would account for situations like that

A backended contract doenst necessarily mean they are rating your last year as being worth that compared to other years, it just means thats when you get paid for what you have already done but it is structured that way to fit inside the cap.

I would imagine he would have got paid most of that but minus what may have been deemed a fair portion that the last year was worth.

Again, if he got it all, I would argue the decision for him to retire was not all his own
 

DJ75

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err they did....
No we didn't we tried to dodge third party deals, not make a deal that had a club component.
We could have signed Tippett for 10 years at $9 million dollars paid him $700'000 for this first few years and then in 5 years time when he retired up his pay as our ambassador. Hence majority of contract is paid after he is finished playing.
That is what I think Sydney are doing.
 

Rorys458

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That could work I guess

However it would only help players NOT get to their desired destination (ie make it harder to use the PSD to get whre they want by structuring their pay demands), which would be good for clubs and fans but the ALFPA probably has too much power to let it happen
True, but the goal is to make Free Agency the only way for players to get where they want and that the trade and draft system is otherwise not held up to ridicule. Polec for example should bring Brisbane a decent trade before he gets to the club of his choice.
 

Vader

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They should remove the pre season draft and make players go into the national draft. Also bring in rules about back ending salaries so that all payments have to be smoothed to some degree over the contract term.
I don't have a problem with back ending of contracts, but I do agree about removing the PSD. It was originally created as a way of allowing players who were out of contract to move from one club to another, given that they weren't released by their clubs until after nominations for the ND had closed. Then the AFL moved the nomination date, allowing all players access to the ND - and making the PSD irrelevant.

The only purpose the PSD serves now is to provide a weapon for the players to use against the clubs - do what we want or we walk to our preferred team via the PSD.

The PSD should have been killed off when the AFL changed the dates, making uncontracted players eligible for the ND.
 

Vader

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In some cases they would which is why I said they may sometimes negotiate a payout. This may be if the retirement is a mutual agreement or the club has told the player to do so but rather than delisting they "retire" for the sake of public appearances.

Not sure what Voss has to do with it? Did he retire mid contract and take all their money as a player? If so I would dare say the retirement was not all his decision and the payout was to help him agree to what the club wanted.

As a coach he was sacked so would have got a payout. Sacked and retired are quite different
Voss retired with a year to go on his contract. They couldn't afford to include the last year's salary under the cap in the year he retired, so they were forced to keep him on their list (as a retired player) for 12 months - purely for salary cap reasons - before delisting him when his contract finally expired.

Make no bones about it - if Sydney sign up to pay him $10m over 9 years, then they'll have to pay him $10m, whether he retires after 5years, 8years or plays out the full term of his contract. Clubs can negotiate terms when a player leaves, noting that they are no longer filling their part of the contract - but there's no way the AFL would let them wriggle out of this one, given that Sydney knowingly signed him up until the age of 36, noting that the number of players still playing at that age in the last 20 years can be counted on one hand (Craig Bradley, Dustin Fletcher & Robert Harvey).
 

Tex Danger

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One thing a lot of people are missing with Sydney affording both Tippett and Buddy is I think the Tippett suspension has helped a lot with this.

I think that the figures quoted for Tippett were based on the initial offer. When he was suspended for so long I think these figures would have been adjusted to reflect that.

If so suddenly Tippetts salary this year would be reduced, they would have paid him the full amount as their salary cap allowed for it but will come from the back end, which helps in back ending their contract offer to Buddy.

Of course Tippett may have got the full $$ and that doesnt help but I think that this is a possibility
 

jenny61_99

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Who's to say we haven't had some successful "creative" contracts in the past or currently in place? It's not as if that information will EVER be released to the public. I mean we did something "creative" with Tippett and look what happened there.
Afl forensics looked over all of our contracts and tippets was the only crook one.
 
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