Strategy 2013 v 2014 Draftees, who would you take

[TW Sherrin]

Fwiw not many pies would swap JDG for anyone (Except maybe Bont).

 

[Tulip]

Fwiw not many pies would swap JDG for anyone (Except maybe Bont).

Bont, Stringer, Hogan, Heeney, Cripps - every day of the week.


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[TW Sherrin]

Bont, Stringer, Hogan, Heeney, Cripps - every day of the week.


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Talking mids. heeney was untouchable. The others only Bont would interest me. And still happy to see what happens in 10 years.

 

[liz]

Haven't seen every game heeney has a played but hasn't he played forward?

Your absolutely correct. He shouldn't really be evaluated (yet) as a midfielder at AFL level because he's only ever drifted in there for a few minutes at a time. His raw stats certainly don't stack up against the likes of De Goey and Brayshaw because they've played more time in the middle.

I do think people are going a little early on Heeney, based on his junior career as a midfielder. Sure, he's shown some flashiness as well as solid all-round skills, and I think it's highly probable he will develop into a good (at worst) AFL midfielder in time, once he gets more opportunity. But he is still essentially unproven as a ball winning midfielder at the very top level.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Could you please point out where he said that he is already better than them? Cause I can't recall TradeDraft saying that?

Moore is and Could be better then all of Them. De Goey is a very good Prospect

See where he says "Moore is" - glad I can help

 

[TyroneVickery29]

Ha, Moore and DeGoey are D-E-F-I-N-I-T-E-L-Y not in the same stratosphere as Bont, Cripps and to a lesser extent, Billings .

Moore is and Could be better then all of Them. De Goey is a very good Prospect

See where he says "Moore is" - glad I can help

Have a read of the quote he replied that to mate, he was saying "Moore is" in the same stratosphere as Bont, Cripps and to a lesser extent, Billings.

No where did he say "Moore is" better than them... But yeah thanks for trying to "help"

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Have a read of the quote he replied that to mate, he was saying "Moore is" in the same stratosphere as Bont, Cripps and to a lesser extent, Billings.

No where did he say "Moore is" better than them... But yeah thanks for trying to "help"

Ah sorry misread that.

Still you can see the mans intentions, privately he probably does rate Moore higher

 

[Old navy]

I can completely understand all that and yep, he would have been fresh in that last quarter, which is again similar to him looking very comfortable at VFL level, yet struggling with the pace at AFL level when it's full-on, at this stage. He's only 20yo and played just 10 games though (subbed on or off in at least 5 of them), didn't a full preseason in either of his first 2 years and has had a lot of niggling/nuisance injuries, so I highly doubt someone who has shown as much as he has at VFL level and in glimpses at AFL level (like against Brisbane last year, when he had 10 possies to quarter time and finished with 20 from just 69% game time, despite cramping up very badly in the last 1/4) and who was deemed good enough to go first round (in what is looking like a very strong draft), is never going to adjust to the speed of senior AFL footy. Time will tell though.

It is common knowledge that he was one of those who just had no idea what he was in for when he first got the club though, as a very relaxed, laid-back type and it's basically taken him until this preseason by the sounds of it for the penny to drop as to just how much he's got to work, if he wants to make it, so I'll be very surprised if he doesn't take some pretty strong steps forward this year. He looks stronger and is likely to be a lot fitter. We've got a few others starting to really step up in the midfield though, so if he's not going to be contributing enough up forward he may just have to bide his time until a spot opens up in the midfield, or until he's ready to play there pretty much full-time.

As for Lonie v Acres, they are very, very different types (and Lonie is pretty much playing in his preferred/usual position, while Acres is generally not), had very different work-ethic's and so-on when they arrived at the club and Lonie is 174cm, while Acres is now meant to be 192cm- and the shorter types are often/regularly closer to their ceiling at the start- so how they've gone so far doesn't mean it's a certainty by any means that Lonie will have the better career. Jack does look bloody good though and is great to watch, so I'm really looking forward to seeing him progress. Not sure about his current hairdo though. Looks like something Princess Di used to roll with!

Ok his looked really good in 3rd quater today. Very much as you have been saying. He moves smoothly and good vision in traffic.
Hopefully the Saints have found there tall mid.
Good call AAR

 

[aussierulesrules]

Ok his looked really good in 3rd quater today. Very much as you have been saying. He moves smoothly and good vision in traffic.
Hopefully the Saints have found there tall mid.
Good call AAR

Cheers.

One of the most pleasing things about his 3rd quarter in particular today was that he was doing a lot of that good work up forward, which is where he's been struggling to get into the play. Once he started to get into it up there I think we moved him up closer to the ball and he then started to win regular clearances from the stoppages as well.

After a slow start to the game (when he often seemed to be our long marking option deep in the forward line) he ended up with 22 disposals (10 contested), a goal and 4 clearances, from just 68% game time.

He didn't seem to be as rushed with his disposals as he often has in the past at this level, so it was a really encouraging game from him today and will hopefully give him a real confidence boost and help him feel like he belongs at the level. Once he does, I think he'll play like he did in the 3rd quarter a whole lot more. I think he'll start clunking marks inside 50 then, too. Still needs to tidy up his kicking though.

Hopefully both our clubs have found one in Boekhurst and Blacres.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Paddy Mac with a lazy 25 disposals, 15 marks and 7 goals in his return from a hamstring injury in the VFL praccy match demolition of an albeit well-short-of-full-strength Box Hill Hawks yesterday. Most pleasing part of that was the 25 possies and 15 marks, as much as the 7 sausages.

 

[LynchysMob]

Paddy Mac with a lazy 25 disposals, 15 marks and 7 goals in his return from a hamstring injury in the VFL praccy match demolition of an albeit well-short-of-full-strength Box Hill Hawks yesterday. Most pleasing part of that was the 25 possies and 15 marks, as much as the 7 sausages.

* that's awesome! Would love to see him do well.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Apparently he gave off a couple in that game as well.

Straight back into the team for this week's game, so looking forward to seeing how much he's improved over the offseason. Have heard a lot of good things about how he's gone in match-sim over the preseason.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Was Acres dropped this week or is he injured??

I like the way the kid plays, but.. if youre getting dropped second week into what should be your breakout year there are troubling signs.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Was Acres dropped this week or is he injured??

I like the way the kid plays, but.. if youre getting dropped second week into what should be your breakout year there are troubling signs.

It looks like he was dropped and there is post after post of "WTF's? " on our board as a result of this, given he had 22 possessions, 4 clearances and a goal on the weekend (from just 68% game time) and apparently had 11 possessions in a 14 minute period in the 3rd quarter.

I'd suggest it is purely structural/team balance, as we want to get McCartin back into the team and someone had to make way for him and given how fast WB are, we needed to keep those with the most speed in the team, so the shorter, quicker types kept their spots, while 192cm Blake drew the short straw. I'd expect him to be back in as soon as next week, as there's no way he was dropped for being in our bottom two last week and Collingwood aren't as quick as WB.

 

[Old navy]

It looks like he was dropped and there is post after post of "WTF's? " on our board as a result of this, given he had 22 possessions, 4 clearances and a goal on the weekend (from just 68% game time) and apparently had 11 possessions in a 14 minute period in the 3rd quarter.

I'd suggest it is purely structural/team balance, as we want to get McCartin back into the team and someone had to make way for him and given how fast WB are, we needed to keep those with the most speed in the team, so the shorter, quicker types kept their spots, while 192cm Blake drew the short straw. I'd expect him to be back in as soon as next week, as there's no way he was dropped for being in our bottom two last week and Collingwood aren't as quick as WB.

I don't know AAR. The kid plays a breakout game. Looks the most comfortable at AFL level as anyone has ever seen him and he gets dropped
His your teams only tall mid and offers something a little different around the clearances.
May be it has something to do with the amount of TOG he played last week, seems unusually low.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Against the Dogs, there's a school of thought that his defensive pressure and kicking may be a liability.

Needs to improve his defensive game. Still very raw in that aspect, chasing an opponent not standing right next to him still a bit of an afterthought for Acres.

Kicking still raw also atm.

I wouldn't have dropped him ahead of others either, but I can understand the school of thought against this dogs team.

 

[Sando22]

1 - Boyd v McCartin > Boyd
2 - Kelly v Petracca > Petracca
3 - Billings v Brayshaw > Brayshaw
4 - Bontempelli v Pickett > Bonts
5 - Kolodashnij v De Goey > KK
6 - Sharenberg v Marchbank > CMB
7 - Aish v Ahern > Aish
8 - McDonald v Wright > McDonald
9 - Salem v Moore > Salem
10 - Freeman v Cockatoo > Freeman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11 - Sheed v Duggan > Sheed
12 - Lennon v Ellis > Lennon
13 - Cripps v Weller > Cripps
14 - McCarthy v Lever > McCarthy
15 - Jones v Garlett > Jones
16 - Lang v Durdin > Durdin
17 - Apeness v Langford > Apeness
18 - Dunstan v Heeney > Heeney
19 - Acres v Boekhorst > Acres
20 - Leslie v Laverde > Laverde
21 - Impey v Goddard > Impey

 

[aussierulesrules]

I don't know AAR. The kid plays a breakout game. Looks the most comfortable at AFL level as anyone has ever seen him and he gets dropped
His your teams only tall mid and offers something a little different around the clearances.
May be it has something to do with the amount of TOG he played last week, seems unusually low.

Gilbert has been playing mostly in the guts since about round 14 last year and is going genuinely well there so far this year in particular and he's 194cm, so with him and Ross (187cm and strongly built), plus the very strong Armitage, Weller and Dunstan, we have plenty of grunt and size in there for the moment. We were killing Port in the clearances on the weekend prior to us running out of gas late in the game (even though they got a bunch late, once we'd stopped to a walk, we still had 17 more for the game, which is huge).

As for his TOG of 68%, it was almost identical to that of Dunstan (67%), Templeton (70%) and Gresham (67%), so we're evidently doing that with some of the younger ones with the interchange cap being the way it is this year and with one more on the bench (with no sub) meaning that you can rotate all 22 throughout a game, instead of 21.

As I said in my earlier post, Blake was actually playing pretty deep as a marking target in the forward line for much of the game on the weekend, so of course when McCartin was available for selection again it put Blake's position in jeopardy, because Paddy is clearly more of an threat in the air than Blake is at this stage and against the very quick WB backline, we obviously wanted to be able to stretch them for height there, but then needed all the others we had up forward to be really quick and nimble, otherwise they'd just run it out of there all day long with ease. So it's almost certainly a team balance thing. Champion Data ranked Acres as our 8th best on the weekend!

It's a risky move though, because if Paddy doesn't hit the scoreboard, or provide some really good crumbs for the "smalls", he's obviously not going to get anywhere near as much ball as Acres would have and won't be able to chase and tackle anywhere near as well as he would have either, so it could easily enough backfire on us.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

As I said in my earlier post, Blake was actually playing pretty deep as a marking target in the forward line for much of the game on the weekend, so of course when McCartin was available for selection again it put Blake's position in jeopardy, because he is clearly more of an threat in the air than Blake is at this stage and against the very quick WB backline, we obviously wanted to be able to stretch them for height down back, but then needed all the others we had up forward to be really quick and nimble, otherwise they'd just run it out of there all day long.

I'm surprised teams still try to do this to be honest. Unless you've got athletic 200cm types or multiple elite forwards there are very few times that it has actually worked since Beveridge was appointed.

 

[Pykie]

I'm torn as to weather Cripps or Bontempelli will end up the best of their draft group.

They're both similar players in some respects, but completely different in game styles. Despite being abnormally tall mids.

Bontempelli is more dynamic, kicks goals etc.

But Cripps' body shape and strength inside, he could be one of the best contested ball winners we've seen when he fully develops, he's already an absolute beast at 20 years old. You've got guys like Dangerfield who are monster athletes, Cripps doesn't have the speed, but he will have even more power on the inside, potentially topping out at 90-95kg's when he's older.

Heeney is an absolute beauty, but I think he's more likely to be the rung below these 2 down the track. I see Heeney getting to a Selwood-esque type level in the future. Which is still clearly an elite player.

I have De Goey being a rung or two down again on Heeney. Probably a top 50 or top 75 player in the competition

 

[aussierulesrules]

I'm surprised teams still try to do this to be honest. Unless you've got athletic 200cm types there are very few times that it has actually worked since Beveridge was appointed.

I guess we're hoping this is one of those very few times and see it as giving us our best chance to win. I imagine we're backing ourselves to win it out of the centre with Hickey hopefully continuing on his dominance from the weekend and our midfield continuing to win the clearances and get it in there pretty long and fast. We also moved the ball fastest from defensive 50 to forward 50 of any team in the comp in R1 (10.8 seconds per time), so perhaps we also think if we do that again it will give Paddy, Riewoldt and Bruce a great chance one-out.

If it's not working out, we also have the option of moving Riewoldt to the wing, which is what we did at half time of our first game against you last year, which really opened up our forward line and helped us come back from 55 points down to win. Bruce will also be spending a reasonable amount of time in the ruck, so it will be good to have Paddy there during those times this week.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

1 - Boyd v McCartin > Boyd, although he hasn't done a lot his junior performances and fact he's playing footy puts him ahead of McCartin.
2 - Kelly v Petracca > Petracca, whilst not being unleashed yet is still the better of the two I feel, Kelly all class but Petracca should really have gone no.1
3 - Billings v Brayshaw > Billings for me here, Brayshaw is competitive and strong, but a bit vanilla outside that, Billings is a unique talent.
4 - Bontempelli v Pickett > Bontempelli, for obvious reasons
5 - Kolodashnij v De Goey > Kolodjasnij, dont see all the hype around De Goey, will be good, but on exposed form alphabets is ahead and cant see why he wouldnt stay that way.
6 - Sharenberg v Marchbank > Have to take Marchbank due to the injuries here, although Caleb doesnt shine either here.
7 - Aish v Ahern > I'll take the unknown in Ahern here, ive seen a fair ammount of Aish and what ive seen hasnt impressed me, nor his attitude. They could both be uninspiring or Ahern could come on.
8 - McDonald v Wright > I'll take the big boy here, McDonalds a decent flanker but Wright looks the goods. Looking like the best tall in his draft so far (Bar Moore)
9 - Salem v Moore > Moore the obvious choice, Salem is decent but Moore can be a quality player.
10 - Freeman v Cockatoo > Tough one, Freemans injuries have hurt him, i'll go Cockatoo until Freeman can prove he can fix his body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11 - Sheed v Duggan > Duggan the more strings to his bow. Sheed very nuts and bolts.
12 - Lennon v Ellis > Meh, toss up here. I'll go Lennon bases on junior form.
13 - Cripps v Weller > The one and only Paddy Cripps, obviously.
14 - McCarthy v Lever > McCarthy if he wasnt a * up, Lever because he is.
15 - Jones v Garlett > Who are these people?. Zak Jones, yeah that kid can play.
16 - Lang v Durdin > Durdin off juniour form for me. I rated him.
17 - Apeness v Langford > Meh again, coin toss.
18 - Dunstan v Heeney > Heeney, but thats not Dunstans fault, id put Dunstan above a few others, Academy system ruining the draft already here. * I hate the Swans.
19 - Acres v Boekhorst > Boekhurst is putting in consistent efforts, Acres isnt.
20 - Leslie v Laverde > Laverde here for me.
21 - Impey v Goddard > I'll take the tall in Goddard.

 

[Cringle]

I actually really like Weller and think he'll be a jet.

Not sure how Boekhorst slide to pick 19 now in hindsight. Few recruiters would be in the firing line after that complete and utter * up.

 

[Tulip]

Boekhort had 10 touches, 1 tackle, 1 goal 1 against Sydney.

 

[HARKER]

Boekhort had 10 touches, 1 tackle, 1 goal 1 against Sydney.

Boekhorst was injured in the first quarter and spent some time off the ground. What was your point?

Surprised for the lack of love for Billings here. Does he even exist?


EDIT: Just as a matter of interest would any Saints supporters prefer Boekhorst to either Dunstan or Acres?
Serious question in terms of clubs' needs.