Analysis 2014-2015 tactical changes

[*PAF]

I think the players are giving their all and then some. Some of the posts in a number of threads are a bit harsh. That is being diplomatic.

 

[StrappingTape]

Over using the ball, not taking te first option and oversharing it when not necessary ie gray marking 45m out against north melb at game start then trying to hit up a lead on the boundary 20 out and ****ing up instead of taking the shot. We are giving away shots at goal a lot by doing too much team first **** even lobbe yesterday 40m out was looking to give it to Broadbent right up until he was running in to kick or white 40m out giving to hammer 55m out under pressure and not making the distance anyway. We are killing ourselves more than anything.

Also we are noticebly giving up easy options to the opposition from kickins up to half the ground but its not working just releases the pressure. Also on the wings men are peeling off to the ball carrier like he is jen hawkins on heat and leaving their men open for the easy over the top go gif which is just dumb football. Plus chasing a player to their defensive side instead of always moving amd chasing them from their attacking side.

 

[PA88]

I don't think everything is going to be right once Wines returns. It is more than just him not playing. Janus and El Scorcho are right. I have to add though that attitude is an issue. Games against North, Freo, Hawthorn, West Coast I'm pretty sure we led at the main break and 10 minutes in the third quarter we've blown our lead with a flurry of goals from the opposition.

I don't rate our performance against the crows. They just don't have the best personnel to nullify us.

It doesn't look good.

 

[BIG MATTY WHITE]

The thing that stands out for me is our manic freaking attack with no control and i dare say very little thought....

Last year our manic attack only came in towards an end of a game where we needed to catch up or the opponent was out on their feet...

Now we just seem to attack from our backline play on at all cost
blind turn into freaking opponents standing
the mark
Increase our useless f***ing handball stat

 

[*PAF]

Coming out of defence we have static type options in Lobbe, Ryder or Schulz plus Westhoff. Static when compared to nippier players that is.
Once the play goes past them we are usually outnumbered and because of this we don't look as fast as last year plus give up a lot of rebound inside 50s.
Add the odd gameday injury to one or more running players like Ebert and it gets worse.

Something for the coaching staff to work on until we get it right.

 

[Dave Omsby]

I think we need to have players stationed across the centre ( 2 or 3 ) instead of all the team going back inside the oppos forward 50 , it helps us win the ball but the blind kicks get gobbled up by the other teams loose players across centre ( I guess it's their half backs that stay back ) and then it's straight back in , that's why we've given up so many inside 50's IMO .

 

[Adam Marrett23]

This is just my opinion nothing more, I feel we are trying to be to structured in our gameplan rather then playing on instinct which we have been the last 2 years. We aren't working hard enough as a group, our manic defensive pressure has barely been sighted this year other then 2 quarters against Hawthorn and the Freo game. I'm not happy with this inside 50 count against us, not sure what the go is there, it does seem like a tactical switch of some sort. But our gameplan isn't working or any tactical changes we have tried to implement for 2015 because our players aren't working hard enough for me. Seems to me we are just waiting for someone to flick the switch rather then do the hard work to get going. If we being the hard work or as a former coach of mine used to say take our dinner suits off and front up for hard work it won't matter what the gameplan is it won't show up.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

I think we need to have players stationed across the centre ( 2 or 3 ) instead of all the team going back inside the oppos forward 50 , it helps us win the ball but the blind kicks get gobbled up by the other teams loose players across centre ( I guess it's their half backs that stay back ) and then it's straight back in , that's why we've given up so many inside 50's IMO .

Agree. Our general team set-up once the ball goes into our defensive 50 is too reactive. Along with the players you, might as well throw in our runners, physio, coaches, club doctor & cheersquad for good measure. It's so frustrating to see 3 or 4 unmarked opposition players ready to intercept any outgoing kick, only for it to come straight back in.

 

[Dave Omsby]

Basically the defence : is working beautifully apart from the perfect small forward minder , it looks like Impey might be the long term answer but the defence is not the problem .
The forward line :is a bit inconsistent .
When Westhoff and Ryder have been there at the same time it's looked good on occasions . ( is this when a Shulz is having a rest ? Or is he down there as well ? )
I think Ryder and Westhoff should come up the ground a bit more often to Centre Half Forward
We're lacking goals from Monfries with Wingard and Grays numbers also down obviously because of them doing more midfield time but I think one or the other needs to be deep in the forward line with the talls , at least until Neade gets some consistency .
The midfield : has been a bit of a worry in that despite Ebert Boak and Gray all getting lots of the ball it's not translating into a winning midfield for sometimes a quarter and a half of a game .
I've liked the glimpse of AhChee because he's almost an inside mid but the skills to go outside as well .
I think Cornes has been down on possessions this year , he was always if not our highest possession winner close to it . Does this mean he's in a different role or slowing down ?
Polec was good early , White and Mitchell have been serviceable but don't get enough of the ball . Young has been good to o.k which is disappointing .
I think Broadbent could be used more forward of centre .
The rucks have won in at least half of the games but I'm not sure if Lobbe can go forward too often it might make it a bit top heavy , now and again but I'd rather see him rest on the bench most times with maybe 60% ruck , 15% forward and 25% on the bench , don't know if that would upset the balance of interchanges though .
The sub: hasn't really worked for us yet apart for easing in AhChee , still think Mitchell and a White are the perfect subs coming on half way through the third .

 

[Tibbs]

I think the players are giving their all and then some. Some of the posts in a number of threads are a bit harsh. That is being diplomatic.

We know they are not having a bludge out there, but something is seriously wrong - we just cant ignore it! Besides this new game plan not working, the team isn't jelling together. We are playing reactionary football. Simple kicks & handballs are going straight to opposition players. The gut-running just isnt there anymore. Wow ... I could go on! In every game this year, we only seem to play one decent quarter of football .... then we clam up.

I was just so angry last night .... still havent calmed down!!!

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Agree on the need for a player that can boot goals outside the forward 50 on the run.

Problem right now is that Hartlett and Broadbent, who are our only two of three (Wingard the other) spend too much time on the half back.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Also think that conceding some inside 50s for slingshot footy is the right style for our team. Fact is our back line as incredible as they've been is way too tall right now. Wonder if we can open things up by throwing Jonas to the middle by adding a big body and a defensive presence at stoppages.

 

[*PAF]

We know they are not having a bludge out there, but something is seriously wrong - we just cant ignore it! Besides this new game plan not working, the team isn't jelling together. We are playing reactionary football. Simple kicks & handballs are going straight to opposition players. The gut-running just isnt there anymore. Wow ... I could go on! In every game this year, we only seem to play one decent quarter of football .... then we clam up.

I was just so angry last night .... still havent calmed down!!!

This may be my last post or close to it on the subject as Tribey's doodle sonar is getting overworked, but how can we expect the same run and no tweaking of the gameplan with Ryder on the park?
We are not playing Ryder plus the 22 from last year, but Ryder minus another running player.
We would have more run with Neade instead of Ryder but we wouldn't be a better team. Short term perhaps but not long term.

We need to adjust playing with an extra very tall player but going by what we have seen so far it obviously is not going to happen overnight.
However after what we did to Hawthorn in the first quarter it will be worth the wait.

EDIT: IMO simple skill/execution/option errors two or 3 kicks/passes after a stoppage or rebound 50 have hurt us more than anything else so far. Get them right and we will get the ball into our forward 50 before the opposition can flood and we will look a lot quicker.

 

[SgtSchulz]

I thought that losing Phil Walsh would mean we would lose a large amount of our tactical nuance but the fact he couldn't engineer a Showdown win despite knowing our players inside out and the same in regards to our game plan suggests otherwise.

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

I thought that losing Phil Walsh would mean we would lose a large amount of our tactical nuance but the fact he couldn't engineer a Showdown win despite knowing our players inside out and the same in regards to our game plan suggests otherwise.

I think Walsh was an outstanding assistant coach. But that dont make him a good head coach. We most definitely miss him as a midfield coach, but I'd never want him as head coach. The Dude is weird, he needs to get back under his rock

 

[TeeKray]

I can't really figure out exactly what our game plan is at this stage. The first two weeks v Freo and Sydney we played a high possession, patient, hold the play up style. Against North we responded to their pushing back numbers by pressing quite hard (which is more like what we have been doing for the past two years) and the last three weeks has been more of that counter attack style that El Scorcho has covered pretty comprehensively in the OP.

So are we trying things out or is it a horses for courses approach? A part of me wonders if we are getting a bit cute, Choco style. Maybe we need to get back to basics and just focus on our own game and our own strengths rather than always trying to outsmart the opposition tactically.

Having said that, we could have won yesterday playing that style of football. We held our own for most of the game and demolished them in the last quarter. Execution is the key. Missed targets, dropped marks, missed shots at goal. Small margins in close games. At our best, we can be devastating on the counter attack. True that West Coast were waiting for that long kick but better offensive run from our midfield, a switch or two and maybe better lead-mark plays from our forwards and the West Coast defenders would have been watching the ball sail over their heads a bit more often.

 

[Jakksynn]

Ken has definitely made some changes to the gameplan. He needed to. While the game plan last year was very good, it wasn't good enough. Whether the changes he's made have improved us as a team will be clear to us come the end of the season.

Personally I think once it clicks we're going to be unstoppable. We'll have a plan A, B, and C.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

I can't really figure out exactly what our game plan is at this stage. The first two weeks v Freo and Sydney we played a high possession, patient, hold the play up style. Against North we responded to their pushing back numbers by pressing quite hard (which is more like what we have been doing for the past two years) and the last three weeks has been more of that counter attack style that El Scorcho has covered pretty comprehensively in the OP.

So are we trying things out or is it a horses for courses approach? A part of me wonders if we are getting a bit cute, Choco style. Maybe we need to get back to basics and just focus on our own game and our own strengths rather than always trying to outsmart the opposition tactically.

Having said that, we could have won yesterday playing that style of football. We held our own for most of the game and demolished them in the last quarter. Execution is the key. Missed targets, dropped marks, missed shots at goal. Small margins in close games. At our best, we can be devastating on the counter attack. True that West Coast were waiting for that long kick but better offensive run from our midfield, a switch or two and maybe better lead-mark plays from our forwards and the West Coast defenders would have been watching the ball sail over their heads a bit more often.

I must have watched a different game from the one you were you watching. Let's not beat around the bush, we got beaten by a middle of the table team who are also currently missing 4 or 5 of their better players. We managed to score a pultry 68 points at home, in dry conditions with their key club B & F defender out. The only thing we managed to demolish in the final quarter was our top 4 chances. Good sides don't drop games like that, average run of the mill sides like Richmond, Crows, North etc do. We aren't a good side yet, far from it. Until we can learn to produce high quality football on a regular basis then we'll just be an average side who plays exciting football every now and again.

 

[SilenceOz]

I wondered why we never have Hartlett, Broadbent and Pittard just launch their 50-60 metre bombs for goal from the square or from the 50 if Schulz is being man handled or Ryder is out of position.

The problem we had in the Weagles game was we couldn't get the ball convincingly out of their 50 for long enough.

Westhoff needs a kick in the arse and if we are having problems getting it out he needs to park himself 60 out on a wing and have the current ruck on the other wing and present a big target to kick it out to quickly when its stuck in our defense.

For that to work they need to either mark it or contest it on the ground 60-75 out from their goal for long enough on the wing for the midfielders to be able to stream out of defense and take the ball and move it up towards our 50 quickly.

 

[Janus]

I must have watched a different game from the one you were you watching. Let's not beat around the bush, we got beaten by a middle of the table team who are also currently missing 4 or 5 of their better players. We managed to score a pultry 68 points at home, in dry conditions with their key club B & F defender out. The only thing we managed to demolish in the final quarter was our top 4 chances. Good sides don't drop games like that, average run of the mill sides like Richmond, Crows, North etc do. We aren't a good side yet, far from it. Until we can learn to produce high quality football on a regular basis then we'll just be an average side who plays exciting football every now and again.

****ing LOL. Good sides don't drop games like that huh? What about Fremantle against St. Kilda last year? Sydney vs Western Bulldogs last round? Hawthorn vs GWS this round?

Guess they're all shit sides too. ****, the premiers each year must only drop like 3 games total according to you.

This is a thread for analysing the change in tactics from last year to this year and the consequences in doing so, not another place where you and your ilk who never seem to post much when we are winning can shitcan the club and players because they had an off day. If you're not going to contribute to the discussion at hand, why post in here at all? Go into the review thread or start a "Has the bubble burst thread" if you want to do that.

 

[El_Scorcho]

We don't know yet if this is a blip or a sign of things to come. You'd assume we can at the very least work a lot harder than we did against West Coast.

 

[Jim Dixon]

I'm really frustrated because you just can't make an informed comment about tactics from just watching on television. Our television companies are really poor at broadcasting the game.

I'll just say this - I still trust Ken to get us there. 6 rounds - it's basically quarter time in the 2015 season. Not the best start but we're only one game off second.

 

[Sewer de Lance]

******* LOL. Good sides don't drop games like that huh? What about Fremantle against St. Kilda last year? Sydney vs Western Bulldogs last round? Hawthorn vs GWS this round?

Guess they're all shit sides too. ****, the premiers each year must only drop like 3 games total according to you.

This is a thread for analysing the change in tactics from last year to this year and the consequences in doing so, not another place where you and your ilk who never seem to post much when we are winning can shitcan the club and players because they had an off day. If you're not going to contribute to the discussion at hand, why post in here at all? Go into the review thread or start a "Has the bubble burst thread" if you want to do that.

Get off your high horse mate and stop over-reacting. Sorry, if I call it as I see it but I'm a passionate supporter, who happens to follow a passionate game, and if I want to be pissed off about losing at home to an undermanned, middle of the table side, I will.
One, I've never referred to our club as a s*** side. The clubs you have mentioned bar Freo have consistently made the Finals over the past 7 or 8 years, and in the Swans case over a good solid decade. Add Geelong to that list and you have an example of a model of consistency. Two, "Premiers drop 3 games according to me"? Yeah right O mate. However when has the last Premiership side dropped a game at home to an average, middle of the table side weakened by injury? Unless you rate WCE highly which I don't. Three, the poster made a comment how they thought we dominated the Eagles in the 4th quarter. Have you berated him/her about posting their views in the appropriate Review Thread. Fair dinkum. Four, I don't go out my way to bag players. However, if I think a player is terribly out of form like Westy is at the moment, I won't stick my head in the sand and pretend otherwise. Five, no matter which way you look at it, our current gameplan is not working. We have had dominant periods throughout most games this season, bar Sydney, but the fwd 50 entries against suggests something needs to change. Six, if your still angry we can always hug it out at 'the Hill'

 

[Powerade 08]

I don't get it.

We kept up with Freo, Sydney. We destroyed Hawthorn. Normally in these games we'd be 40 points down in the 3rd qtr.

We beat North which never happens. We beat Adelaide.

We're getting better results so whats the problem?

 

[Forzaport]

Get off your high horse mate and stop over-reacting. Sorry, if I call it as I see it but I'm a passionate supporter, who happens to follow a passionate game, and if I want to be pissed off about losing at home to an undermanned, middle of the table side, I will.
One, I've never referred to our club as a s*** side. The clubs you have mentioned bar Freo have consistently made the Finals over the past 7 or 8 years, and in the Swans case over a good solid decade. Add Geelong to that list and you have an example of a model of consistency. Two, "Premiers drop 3 games according to me"? Yeah right O mate. However when has the last Premiership side dropped a game at home to an average, middle of the table side weakened by injury? Unless you rate WCE highly which I don't. Three, the poster made a comment how they thought we dominated the Eagles in the 4th quarter. Have you berated him/her about posting their views in the appropriate Review Thread. Fair dinkum. Four, I don't go out my way to bag players. However, if I think a player is terribly out of form like Westy is at the moment, I won't stick my head in the sand and pretend otherwise. Five, no matter which way you look at it, our current gameplan is not working. We have had dominant periods throughout most games this season, bar Sydney, but the fwd 50 entries against suggests something needs to change. Six, if your still angry we can always hug it out at 'the Hill'

Still early days but West Coast may surprise a few this year. May even host a home final.